Fyi Book --- Js's Legal Encounters

[rpn]

BYU studies has just published a book based on new info in the Joseph Smith papers on his interactions with the legal system.   Apparently he had a lot more contact than has previously been known.   This doesn't have the original documents but it does identify all the known encounters.

 

https://byustudies.byu.edu/showtitle.aspx?title=9306

[cdowis]

I forget the citation, but one observer indicated that JS had a very sophisticated understanding of the law.

[mormonnewb]

When I read the first paragraph of the introduction, my mouth dropped open:

 

 

"One cannot come to grips with the life of Joseph Smith without studying his more than two hundred encounters with judges, lawyers, judicial procedures, legal transactions, and legal principles."

 

Two hundred encounters?  However, it took me a minute to realize that Dr. King probably would have had about the same number of legal encounters.  In fact, Dr. King wrote one of his most significant letters from the Birmingham Jail.  In that vain, almost half of the NT was written by another "jailbird" -- the Apostle Paul.  So perhaps, JS is in good company.

[Kevin Christensen]

The author, Gordon Madsen, has an entry on Mormon Scholars testify that gives a summary of what he learned from studying the legal cases:

http://mormonscholarstestify.org/1477/gordon-a-madsen

About forty years ago, I became curious about all the legal encounters, arrests, trials, harassment, and persecution in legal guise to which Joseph Smith was exposed in his comparatively short life. That led to some writing and ultimately an invitation to join the team of the Joseph Smith Papers project, as senior editor of the Legal Series. He was involved in over 220 lawsuits as plaintiff, defendant, or witness. While Mayor of Nauvoo (which included the office of Justice of the Peace) and as Presiding Judge of the Municipal Court of Nauvoo, he presided over scores of other cases. In collecting his legal and business records, and learning what they demonstrate, I have come to what is for me an inescapable conclusion: Joseph Smith, quite apart and in addition to his prophetic calling (about which many others have written), was in his business and legal dealings with his fellow men an honorable and reasonable man. He paid his debts; he successfully defended himself and his church from claimed criminal charges; he built communities; he shared the material goods that came into his hands with followers and strangers; he faithfully performed the legal responsibilities as both judge and court-appointed guardian; he petitioned legislatures and the U.S. Congress for redress on behalf of his dispossessed people; he dispensed justice in his official capacity and rendered mercy and forgiveness personally. In short he was an honorable MAN, whether one regards him a prophet or not.

Madsen published an important study of Joseph Smith's 1826 Trial. “Joseph Smith’s 1826 Trial: The Legal Setting,” BYU Studies 30/2 (1990).

FWIW

Kevin Christensen

Pittsburgh, PA

[Avatar4321]

 

When I read the first paragraph of the introduction, my mouth dropped open:

 

 

"One cannot come to grips with the life of Joseph Smith without studying his more than two hundred encounters with judges, lawyers, judicial procedures, legal transactions, and legal principles."

 

Two hundred encounters?  However, it took me a minute to realize that Dr. King probably would have had about the same number of legal encounters.  In fact, Dr. King wrote one of his most significant letters from the Birmingham Jail.  In that vain, almost half of the NT was written by another "jailbird" -- the Apostle Paul.  So perhaps, JS is in good company.

 

 

Of course he is in good company. Gandhi and Christ were also inprisoned.

 

And several of the most beautiful revelations of the Restoration were given in a prison.

[MiserereNobis]

Of course he is in good company. Gandhi and Christ were also inprisoned.

 

 

And think of all those early Catholic martyrs dying at the hands of the Romans, too.  Such torture!

[David T]

This book seems like it'll be an awesome, and almost necessary companion to the forthcoming JSP volumes. Nice!

[cdowis]

del

Edited March 20, 2014 by cdowis

[bcuzbcuz]

Isn't there a difference between quantity and quality? Not so much about how many cases but why and what about?

[cinepro]

Right after RSR came out, I went to a fireside where Bushman spoke, and someone asked what a surprising thing was that he learned about Joseph Smith while writing the book.  He said he was surprised by the amount of time Joseph spent dealing with legal matters.

Edited March 21, 2014 by cinepro

[Truth 101]

Ya and a lot of his legal encounters were because he was doing stuff that was uhhh, illegal. Such as polygamy and swindling people out of their money.

 

Did you know that while he was in carthage jail he smoked and drank?

Edited March 21, 2014 by Truth 101

[Damien the Leper]

Ya and a lot of his legal encounters were because he was doing stuff that was uhhh, illegal. Such as polygamy and swindling people out of their money.

 

Did you know that while he was in carthage jail he smoked and drank?

 

Of course we know this. JS wasn't bound by the 1921 position that the WoW must be strictly observed. Read Section 89 and do so in historical context.

[Nevo]

.

Edited October 1, 2014 by Nevo

[Damien the Leper]

I knew about the wine, because it's mentioned in the official History of the Church, but I actually haven't heard about him smoking at Carthage jail. Do you have a source for that?

 

(I've heard he smoked a few of the mobbers with his pistol though... Maybe that's what you meant.)

 

You're right. I don't believe I've seen a reliable source on JS smoking.

[Tacenda]

Your Funny Nevo. I've only ever read that he smoked a cigar while riding his horse around. I'd have to see the source that he smoked in jail.

The source I'd like to see is for the claim that he was legally accused of trysts with young women or women in several different towns around where he lived. This was stated by Grant Palmer on a MS podcast I watched that stated there were sexual allegations against Joseph in his younger years.

Edited March 22, 2014 by Tacenda

[Kevin Christensen]

Your Funny Nevo. I've only ever read that he smoked a cigar while riding his horse around. I'd have to see the source that he smoked in jail.

The source I'd like to see is for the claim that he was legally accused of trysts with young women or women in several different towns around where he lived. This was stated by Grant Palmer on a MS podcast I watched that stated there were sexual allegations against Joseph in his younger years.

Try this from FAIR:

http://en.fairmormon.org/Polygamy_book/Early_womanizer

And Greg Smith on Everything you Wanted to Know but Were Afraid to Ask:

http://www.fairmormon.org/perspectives/fair-conferences/2009-fair-conference/2009-everything-you-always-wanted-to-know-about-plural-marriage-but-were-afraid-to-ask

FWIW

Kevin Christensen

Bethel Park, PA

[cinepro]

Did you know that while he was in carthage jail he smoked and drank?

 

CFR that he smoked while in Carthage Jail...

[Duncan]

heck, if I lived in Missouri i'd smoke and drink too

[cdowis]

Ya and a lot of his legal encounters were because he was doing stuff that was uhhh, illegal. Such as polygamy and swindling people out of their money.

 

 

 

Ya, and did ya know that uhhhhh  he was never convicted of any of those accusations except possibly in the 1826 trial as a "glass looker" (not for fraud).

 

The antis have poisoned your mind, my friend.  A person is innocent until proven guilty, unless one is a bitter enemy of the church where accusations and rumors are sufficient for condemnation, and to murder him.

 

Did you know that JS had been released on bond in Carthage, but bound over on a phony charge of treason?  You need to get your facts straight.

Edited March 24, 2014 by cdowis

[cinepro]

Ya, and did ya know that uhhhhh  he was never convicted of any of those accusations except possibly in the 1829 trial as a "glass looker" (not for fraud)? 

 

The antis have poisoned your mind, my friend.  A person is innocent until proven guilty, unless one is a bitter enemy of the church where accusations and rumors are sufficient for condemnation, and to murder him.

 

Did you know that JS had been released on bond in Carthage, but bound over on a phony charge of treason?  You need to get your facts straight.

 

Just so I'm clear, is it your understanding the polygamy was illegal in Illinois at the time Joesph was practicing it?  Obviously he was never tried, but it does seem relevant to the discussion.

[Tacenda]

Try this from FAIR:

http://en.fairmormon.org/Polygamy_book/Early_womanizer

And Greg Smith on Everything you Wanted to Know but Were Afraid to Ask:

http://www.fairmormon.org/perspectives/fair-conferences/2009-fair-conference/2009-everything-you-always-wanted-to-know-about-plural-marriage-but-were-afraid-to-ask

FWIW

Kevin Christensen

Bethel Park, PA

Thank you Kevin!

[sdc999]

Ya, and did ya know that uhhhhh  he was never convicted of any of those accusations except possibly in the 1829 trial as a "glass looker" (not for fraud)? 

 

The antis have poisoned your mind, my friend.  A person is innocent until proven guilty, unless one is a bitter enemy of the church where accusations and rumors are sufficient for condemnation, and to murder him.

 

Did you know that JS had been released on bond in Carthage, but bound over on a phony charge of treason?  You need to get your facts straight.

OJ was never convicted.  But I still recall a LOT LOT LOT of priesthood holder in EQ class passing great judgement.  Maybe those guys were just a 'bitter enemy' to black people.  

[Tiki]

OJ was never convicted. But I still recall a LOT LOT LOT of priesthood holder in EQ class passing great judgement. Maybe those guys were just a 'bitter enemy' to black people.

OJ was found liable for her death in Civil court. Edited March 24, 2014 by Tiki

[Tiki]

"[Joseph Smith] and Robert F. Kennedy remain the only two Americans to be assassinated while they were candidates for the office of United States president."

" Long after visiting Nauvoo and Joseph Smith in mid-May, 1844, Josiah Quincy, who was the son of a president of Harvard University and later mayor of Boston, wondered out loud, “What historical American of the nineteenth century has exerted the most powerful influence upon the destinies of his countrymen?” The answer, he allowed, may well be: “Joseph Smith, the Mormon prophet.”5

https://byustudies.byu.edu/PDFLibrary/BookPreviews/WelchSustainingSample.pdf

[awyatt]

Ya and a lot of his legal encounters were because he was doing stuff that was uhhh, illegal. Such as polygamy and swindling people out of their money.

 

Did you know that while he was in carthage jail he smoked and drank?

Even if these were all true (and good arguments can be made* that they weren't), I suspect the real reason for umbrage, shock, and disdain is that such assumed actions don't fit the personal standard that one expects for a prophet of God. Thousands of people have rally done these things, but in the grand scheme those actions don't matter because those people didn't claim to be prophets.

In other words, it isn't the actions, per se, but who reportedly did the actions.

-Allen

* Polygamy wasn't illegal; bigamy was. If there was no difference, there would have been no need for later legislation to specifically target polygamy. As for the Kirtland Safety Society, it is a much more complex subject than you present. (And besides, a swindler would not have repaid the monies for which he personally vouched which, IIRC, Joseph did.) Finally, even if Joseph smoke and drank up a storm--in or out of jail--neither one was illegal as you imply.