The Nehor Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 But pornography is an addiction...so we should stop calling it that? Source: 16 years of porn addiction. No, pornography is a possible addiction. It is possible to drink alcohol and not become an alcoholic. It is possible to view porn and not become a porn addict. This does not diminish the tragedy of alcoholism or porn addiction or deny their existence. It is just the truth. The well-meaning DARE program when I was in school tried using scare tactics to keep us away from drugs. They emphasized the dangers of drug use (justly). The problem is they lied.....a lot. Marijuana is pretty non-addictive. You rarely find true addicts but they told us addiction was likely. The kids got a little older and ran into marijuana users and saw most of them were not addicts and their lives were not ruined by it. They logically assumed the education they got was a pack of lies and sometimes went into riskier behaviors where there was a lot more danger. Telling people porn is dangerous is fair. Telling people porn is always addictive is a lie. When a teenager grows up and has a well-adjusted non-member friend in college who mentions that he views porn once a few times a month they may logically that whoever told them that porn inevitably leads to addiction was a liar and not realize the spiritual danger even if it is not an addiction. Tell a teenager that masturbation is a sexual sin without separating it out from more serious sin and you end up with a 14 year old who is convinced that they just committed a sign just shy of murder. Repentance is quickly forgotten as they grow to loathe themselves and succumb to despair. Source: A few months of sporadic porn sampling while at the lowest point of my life (broken engagement combined with vocational and educational disasters mixed with a heavy dose of depression) that I gave up with no problems once the crisis was passed. Could I have been addicted if I continued? Maybe, I don't know. 3
Mystery Meat Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 No, pornography is a possible addiction. It is possible to drink alcohol and not become an alcoholic. It is possible to view porn and not become a porn addict. This does not diminish the tragedy of alcoholism or porn addiction or deny their existence. It is just the truth. The well-meaning DARE program when I was in school tried using scare tactics to keep us away from drugs. They emphasized the dangers of drug use (justly). The problem is they lied.....a lot. Marijuana is pretty non-addictive. You rarely find true addicts but they told us addiction was likely. The kids got a little older and ran into marijuana users and saw most of them were not addicts and their lives were not ruined by it. They logically assumed the education they got was a pack of lies and sometimes went into riskier behaviors where there was a lot more danger. Telling people porn is dangerous is fair. Telling people porn is always addictive is a lie. When a teenager grows up and has a well-adjusted non-member friend in college who mentions that he views porn once a few times a month they may logically that whoever told them that porn inevitably leads to addiction was a liar and not realize the spiritual danger even if it is not an addiction. Tell a teenager that masturbation is a sexual sin without separating it out from more serious sin and you end up with a 14 year old who is convinced that they just committed a sign just shy of murder. Repentance is quickly forgotten as they grow to loathe themselves and succumb to despair. Source: A few months of sporadic porn sampling while at the lowest point of my life (broken engagement combined with vocational and educational disasters mixed with a heavy dose of depression) that I gave up with no problems once the crisis was passed. Could I have been addicted if I continued? Maybe, I don't know. Well said, and even though I meant what you said,I didn't say it. Porn is certainly not addicting for everyone. But it can be as you say. We are in 100% agreement.
EllenMaksoud Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 So, 7 pages an no real solutions. It is as normal.
Duncan Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 (edited) A few years back our Stake President told us in stake priesthood mtg that "masturbation leads to murder". I hope that no kid was there that believed it because heaven forbid someone caught up in it feels worse after that that they do something stupid, not necessarily do themself a mischief but quit the Church or just stop caring altogether about Church and develop a spiritual callous Edited February 18, 2014 by Duncan
mormonnewb Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 In every case, the porn viewer was called to repentance so they view it as a serious sin as well, They simply haven't elevated it to the point of adultery, abuse or leaving the toilet seat up. I am dismayed that you would equate sexual addiction to leaving the toilet seat up.You really think I was equating adultery, abuse and leaving the toilet seat up?For future reference, whenever someone lists three items and the third seems entirely out of place, then it's very likely that they are joking. In fact, this kind of joke is so common that it has its own name -- the Rule of Three or the Triple.http://www.humorpower.com/art-rulethree.html
The Nehor Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 So, 7 pages an no real solutions. It is as normal. Meet the solution: Or at least one artist's depiction of the solution. 4
Brian 2.0 Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 A few years back our Stake President told us in stake priesthood mtg that "masturbation leads to murder". I hope that no kid was there that believed it because heaven forbid someone caught up in it feels worse after that that they do something stupid, not necessarily do themself a mischief but quit the Church or just stop caring altogether about Church and develop a spiritual callous I think you misunderstood. Here's how it leads... after the act your body craves protein, a steak or a burger perhaps, so you buy a cheeseburger or something, which involved killing a cow, which some vegetarians equate with murder. I think you're Stake President was just a strong vegetarian. Did he have a "meat is murder" bumper sticker on his car? 1
EllenMaksoud Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 Meet the solution: Or at least one artist's depiction of the solution.So, how far will you go to accept Jesus Christ's Solution?
The Nehor Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 So, how far will you go to accept Jesus Christ's Solution? I don't know. Hopefully in time all the way.
EllenMaksoud Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 I don't know. Hopefully in time all the way.Jesus Christ said, "If thine right eye offend thee, pluck it out. If thine right hand offend thee cut it off". How do you think that translates into modern culture?
The Nehor Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 Jesus Christ said, "If thine right eye offend thee, pluck it out. If thine right hand offend thee cut it off". How do you think that translates into modern culture? Castration? Seriously it means remove impediments from your life even if they are dear to you and seem like they are intrinsically a part of you. It is a stinging indictment of people who refuse to repent or change because "that is the way I am". It is a commandment to remove influences and attributes that weaken you in God's eyes even if removing them will lessen you in man's eyes. Think killing social attributes that God dislikes but that make you personable; that kind of thing. Also if your eye is literally going to damn you I think you should literally pluck it out. I have never seen this occur in practice. 1
EllenMaksoud Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 Castration? Seriously it means remove impediments from your life even if they are dear to you and seem like they are intrinsically a part of you. It is a stinging indictment of people who refuse to repent or change because "that is the way I am". It is a commandment to remove influences and attributes that weaken you in God's eyes even if removing them will lessen you in man's eyes. Think killing social attributes that God dislikes but that make you personable; that kind of thing. Also if your eye is literally going to damn you I think you should literally pluck it out. I have never seen this occur in practice.We don't often talk about those uncomfortable passages where Jesus the Christ that he taught. What were the passages? Were they to be put away and never spoken of? Remember what Jesus our Christ said to the rich man who wanted to join him? Sell all that you have and ... How many of us do that willingly? What if Heavenly Father does that for us? What if circumstances tear all unwholesome distractions from us so that we can devote our time, lives, and love to Heavenly Father? What if he chose us to serve him in that way? What if he chose to redeem a ruined life and restore it? Who is to stand between I and Heavenly Father and say that he can not do that?
Duncan Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 I think you misunderstood. Here's how it leads... after the act your body craves protein, a steak or a burger perhaps, so you buy a cheeseburger or something, which involved killing a cow, which some vegetarians equate with murder. I think you're Stake President was just a strong vegetarian. Did he have a "meat is murder" bumper sticker on his car? Vegetarian? no, he's American! frankly that comment wasn't the worst thing I have heard mentioned over the pulpit! The grossest thing I have heard is something mentioned by an Area Seventy, he's released now but yuck.
jkwilliams Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 So I ask again, what does the future hold for the LDS Church and its attitude towards pornography? Will it the institution stay the course on its current approach? Or will it be like Birth Control and other moral issues that changed over time to adapt to reality? If the Deseret News is any indication, for the time being they're sticking with the "pornography is addiction" position: Pornography Doesn't Exist, but That's Not the Whole Story It's fascinating to me that they open with the bit about it not being an addiction and then spend the rest of the article insisting that it is.
Senator Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 A few years back our Stake President told us in stake priesthood mtg that "masturbation leads to murder". Did he ever kill anyone?
bluebell Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 If the Deseret News is any indication, for the time being they're sticking with the "pornography is addiction" position: Pornography Doesn't Exist, but That's Not the Whole Story It's fascinating to me that they open with the bit about it not being an addiction and then spend the rest of the article insisting that it is. If the whole point of the article is to counter those who suggest it's not an addiction, it makes perfect sense to format the article they way they did. They are making an argument, and in such papers it's customary to include the argument that is being debated.
jkwilliams Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 If the whole point of the article is to counter those who suggest it's not an addiction, it makes perfect sense to format the article they way they did. They are making an argument, and in such papers it's customary to include the argument that is being debated. The whole point of the article was, in current DN style, to string together a bunch of news items. Since they've dismissed most of their reporters, this is how they report the news these days. If they're making an argument, it makes sense to put such things in the Op-Ed section and not call it news.
The Nehor Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 We don't often talk about those uncomfortable passages where Jesus the Christ that he taught. What were the passages? Were they to be put away and never spoken of? Remember what Jesus our Christ said to the rich man who wanted to join him? Sell all that you have and ... How many of us do that willingly? What if Heavenly Father does that for us? What if circumstances tear all unwholesome distractions from us so that we can devote our time, lives, and love to Heavenly Father? What if he chose us to serve him in that way? What if he chose to redeem a ruined life and restore it? Who is to stand between I and Heavenly Father and say that he can not do that? God can do what he likes. The hardest sacrifices in the scriptures are not usually required of everyone. Everyone who is true and faithful will have some kind of great test but few are asked to give up all they possess or sacrifice their child. The question is could we?
The Nehor Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 A few years back our Stake President told us in stake priesthood mtg that "masturbation leads to murder". That is a rather extreme interpretation of the story of Onan. Are nocturnal emissions also murder?
Duncan Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 Did he ever kill anyone?hahahahaa! not sure!! but I can certaintly ask!
Duncan Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 That is a rather extreme interpretation of the story of Onan. Are nocturnal emissions also murder? I would think attempted murder but the jury is still out 1
EllenMaksoud Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 God can do what he likes. The hardest sacrifices in the scriptures are not usually required of everyone. Everyone who is true and faithful will have some kind of great test but few are asked to give up all they possess or sacrifice their child. The question is could we?Sometimes there is no choice. If you are in a bleak, featureless, dark emptiness where all that you loved is gone and those who loved you now hate you. You hate the Creator, or yield to the will of the one who made you to the abandonment of all else.
drums12 Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 To anyone who doubts that porn/sexual addiction is real I recommend reading the works of Patrick Carnes. For LDS, I recommend "He Restoreth My Soul" by Donald S Hilton, a neurosurgeon. He cites ample clinical studies showing the addictive effects of pornography on the brain. For anyone who is or has been in the clutches of porn and/or sexual addiction, no studies are needed. At the end of 2012 I was completely demoralized after over 5 years of fighting to overcome my porn addiction. I was disfellowshipped (for the second time) due to sexual transgression. Only when I realized "oh man I'm hosed! I can't stop," did the Savior do for me what I couldn't do myself. I now have 13 months of abstinence, and I know it WAS NOTHING I DID. When I am tempted, I ask God to do what I cannot. And He does...every time.As a positive follow up...the bishop's council is reconvening tonight, and I am hopeful that my disfellowshipment will be lifted. 2
AndyDnom Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 If looking at porn is a sin then wouldn't that mean there is a reason to feel guilty about occasional porn use? I don't think it's a sin. And I'm not justifying anything, because porn is no longer a part of my life. Of course a lot of these conversations revolve around word definitions of things like "porn" and "addictinon" "use" and "abuse" that can vary wildly depending on your viewpoint. Some people go to 12 step just for thoughts they have in their head, for example. Other people don't count lustful thoughts.
AndyDnom Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 Does anyone deny the fact that if you believe in your head that there is such thing as sins, then when you commit one of these sins, you will feel guilty. And when you feel guilty, a dopamine release will temporarily make you feel better about your guilt?
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