Bernard Gui Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 Bernard Gui, adding Jacob to the post does not change my response.God bless.
Mystery Meat Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 If you think the information would not harm your wife but make her love you more, go for it, but be warned that you could cause irreparable damage to your relationship. The Lord remembers your sin no more. Why would you want her to? That is what I am trying to communicate, and admittedly doing a bad job of. I know that I can't for the reasons you said. Your experience on the other side of the issue seems to coincide with mine. What I am trying to say is that is a shame that such is the case. Wouldn't it be great if we could love each other not only for our strengths, but for the journey some of us take to turn our weaknesses into strengths? While I am sure my wife will love the fact that I am sexually pure and hate impurity, I feel like she won't be getting the full beauty of that strength and what it took for me to develop.
Bernard Gui Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 Our stake used to have a Pornography Addiction Support group, but they met at a different location than the Church building to allow for more anonymity (or so I heard...) One time I was given a clipboard to pass around EQ, but it wasn't obvious what it was, so I suggested it was the carpool list for the Pornography Support group. I don't know what it was for, but no one signed up I'm having a hard time understanding your approach. Do you think this is a non-issue? "Or so I heard..." Anonymity is essential for healing to occur. Please clarify.
Bernard Gui Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 (edited) That is what I am trying to communicate, and admittedly doing a bad job of. I know that I can't for the reasons you said. Your experience on the other side of the issue seems to coincide with mine. What I am trying to say is that is a shame that such is the case. Wouldn't it be great if we could love each other not only for our strengths, but for the journey some of us take to turn our weaknesses into strengths? While I am sure my wife will love the fact that I am sexually pure and hate impurity, I feel like she won't be getting the full beauty of that strength and what it took for me to develop.Isn't that sufficient? Do you think sharing this information in detail would help your relationship? Edited February 17, 2014 by Bernard Gui
Mystery Meat Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 Isn't that sufficient? Do you think sharing this information in detail would help your relationship? Honestly yes I do. In fact I will go as far to say not only that I think it would but that I know it would, provided that the person I am sharing with is willing and ready to hear it.
Calm Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 Are you married yet? If not, then it seems to me if this is seen as a plus for your relationship long term then you should share once you've reach the point of deciding whether to marry or not. It would be unfair IMO to first get a commitment and then share as she may feel pressured to stay because of the commitment when she emotional doesn't want to resulting in resentment etc. too early and it is sharing too much too soon and puts pressure on a relationship that isn't ready for it.Different people need different things in their spouse. If this is something you need I dont see it as an issue as long as you do it right without place any pressure on her. My late bil told my sister he married her to save him, as he was confessing his infidelities and drug use to her in a drunken fit of shame. She left him not because of his addiction, she already knew about that and was trying to work with him, but because she was disgusted by his passive aggressive attempt to manipulate her into assuming his guilt and pain because she 'failed' him. Many times in a relationship one will want to leave not because of the problem itself, but by how the addict uses it to manipulate those around him or her. So an approach that is upfront, matter of fact and low emotional will put less pressure and help her see you are being open to be open and transparent, not to set her up as someone who must take care of this need for you.Considering your desire to be open, you might want to read an older text that I found useful from my days as a psych major, The Transparent Self, think the author is Girad or close to that. Speaks of the needs to communicate by opening aspects of ourselves to each other. Some have a greater need than others. Best to choose a spouse that is comfortable with that if that is your way or there will be a lot of pain for both due to a feeling of inequality. 1
EllenMaksoud Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 As long as this stuff is hidden and full of shame, it will never be stopped. I know it is icky. Mark my words, if people can talk about anything the shame will be gone, and surprising solutions and understanding will happen.
AndyDnom Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 the LDS church didn't make me look at porn. but, they did create the guilt for it. without belief in the LDS church and the validity of what is said at conference, there is no reason to feel guilty about occasional porn use. Once I no longer felt guilty, I was not seeking after mood regulating activities. And thus I stopped looking at porn. The research is pretty clear. Religious guilt promotes people seeking a dopamine release way more than it prevents the seeking of those activities.
Bikeemikey Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 Please provide the research for this.(null)
Tacenda Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 I once mentioned in a 5th Sunday meeting about pornography and youth, that maybe we shouldn't bring it up so much to them, that maybe doing that causes them to try it out even more. Boy did I get shut down fast. 1
bluebell Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 the LDS church didn't make me look at porn. but, they did create the guilt for it. without belief in the LDS church and the validity of what is said at conference, there is no reason to feel guilty about occasional porn use. Once I no longer felt guilty, I was not seeking after mood regulating activities. And thus I stopped looking at porn. The research is pretty clear. Religious guilt promotes people seeking a dopamine release way more than it prevents the seeking of those activities. If looking at porn is a sin then wouldn't that mean there is a reason to feel guilty about occasional porn use? 4
Mystery Meat Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 Are you married yet? If not, then it seems to me if this is seen as a plus for your relationship long term then you should share once you've reach the point of deciding whether to marry or not. It would be unfair IMO to first get a commitment and then share as she may feel pressured to stay because of the commitment when she emotional doesn't want to resulting in resentment etc. too early and it is sharing too much too soon and puts pressure on a relationship that isn't ready for it.Different people need different things in their spouse. If this is something you need I dont see it as an issue as long as you do it right without place any pressure on her. My late bil told my sister he married her to save him, as he was confessing his infidelities and drug use to her in a drunken fit of shame. She left him not because of his addiction, she already knew about that and was trying to work with him, but because she was disgusted by his passive aggressive attempt to manipulate her into assuming his guilt and pain because she 'failed' him. Many times in a relationship one will want to leave not because of the problem itself, but by how the addict uses it to manipulate those around him or her. So an approach that is upfront, matter of fact and low emotional will put less pressure and help her see you are being open to be open and transparent, not to set her up as someone who must take care of this need for you.Considering your desire to be open, you might want to read an older text that I found useful from my days as a psych major, The Transparent Self, think the author is Girad or close to that. Speaks of the needs to communicate by opening aspects of ourselves to each other. Some have a greater need than others. Best to choose a spouse that is comfortable with that if that is your way or there will be a lot of pain for both due to a feeling of inequality. Thanks for your considerate response. I think by nature I am a talker. I love to share my thoughts and feelings. I am not married, nor seriously dating anyone at the moment. My comments in this thread relate to that hypothetical future moment when I find the girl I do want to marry. But I do appreciate your views on this, especially the part about passive aggressive manipulation. If there is one thing I hate, its that. If any of my previous posts indicate any form of passive aggressive blaming of any woman for my past mistakes I utterly and totally repudiate them now. 1
Mystery Meat Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 If looking at porn is a sin then wouldn't that mean there is a reason to feel guilty about occasional porn use? Absolutely. I think there is a difference, however, between godly sorrow (i.e. feeling remorse for making a mistake and violating God's law) and the guilt associated with feeling like a worthless social outcast. One is helpful and even illuminating, with the power to save. The other is humiliating and in many cases (if not all) has the effect of the addict isolating themselves from society (which further strengthens the power of the addiction).
Bernard Gui Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 Honestly yes I do. In fact I will go as far to say not only that I think it would but that I know it would, provided that the person I am sharing with is willing and ready to hear it.Do what you think is right, but be prepared for consequences you may not like.
bluebell Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 Absolutely. I think there is a difference, however, between godly sorrow (i.e. feeling remorse for making a mistake and violating God's law) and the guilt associated with feeling like a worthless social outcast. One is helpful and even illuminating, with the power to save. The other is humiliating and in many cases (if not all) has the effect of the addict isolating themselves from society (which further strengthens the power of the addiction). I agree. 1
Bernard Gui Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 the LDS church didn't make me look at porn. but, they did create the guilt for it. without belief in the LDS church and the validity of what is said at conference, there is no reason to feel guilty about occasional porn use. Once I no longer felt guilty, I was not seeking after mood regulating activities. And thus I stopped looking at porn. The research is pretty clear. Religious guilt promotes people seeking a dopamine release way more than it prevents the seeking of those activities.You are responsible for you own actions. Period. 1
Bernard Gui Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 If looking at porn is a sin then wouldn't that mean there is a reason to feel guilty about occasional porn use?I believe the light of Christ witnesses to you when you start out that this is wrong. If you persist,the light dims and finally goes out, and then you are left on your own to justify your choices. 1
Mystery Meat Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 I believe the light of Christ witnesses to you when you start out that this is wrong. If you persist,the light dims and finally goes out, and then you are left on your own to justify your choices. I looked at porn on a regular basis for about 16 years. I am happy to say, the light never went out.
cinepro Posted February 17, 2014 Author Posted February 17, 2014 I'm having a hard time understanding your approach. Do you think this is a non-issue? "Or so I heard..." Anonymity is essential for healing to occur. Please clarify. Everyone in the EQ got the joke. Maybe it lost something in the telling.
Mystery Meat Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 Everyone in the EQ got the joke. Maybe it lost something in the telling. I thought it was funny.
cinepro Posted February 17, 2014 Author Posted February 17, 2014 (edited) The porn industry makes more money in the US than ABC, CBS, and NBC combined. And 80% of internet users don't pay for it. We have a large problem. You've well described the nature of the problem, and the Church's approach to it. Is it your belief that this approach is meeting the challenge? Meaning, decades from now, will Church members look back on the early 2000s as "that crazy time when pornography was a huge problem", or as "the time when the Church's huge problems with pornography just started getting going"? If it's the former, then I am wrong and the Church should double-down on its current strategies. If it's the latter, then what options does the Church have to improve the situation? Will anything work? Edited February 17, 2014 by cinepro
The Nehor Posted February 17, 2014 Posted February 17, 2014 If it's the former, then I am wrong and the Church should double-down on its current strategies. If it's the latter, then what options does the Church have to improve the situation? Will anything work?The standard historical response to this is to go out in the wilderness, leave sin behind, and start over. Any suggestions as to where to go? I am only half-joking.I have no idea what the best response is. Part of me wants to downplay the seriousness of it a bit and place it with more minor sins like gluttony appears to be in the LDS faith. Not sure. That does leave those with addictive personalities in danger so it is definitely not ideal. On the other hand making it out to be something traumatic and life-changing encourages those with even mild habits to wholesale chuck the gospel if they have any trouble. I have seen that happen too. There is a danger in ranking sins. We have denying the Holy Ghost, murder, and whatever Corianton did (fornication? Adultery? Fertility orgy?) and that is about it. Making porn and/or masturbation out to be up there with the worst things encourages despair, not repentance. 4
cinepro Posted February 17, 2014 Author Posted February 17, 2014 This response to the Callister article in the March 2014 Ensign makes this observation from a clinical viewpoint: When we teach through fear, we increase anxiety. And anxiety increases the probability of unhealthy coping strategies: exactly the opposite of what we want when dealing with sexuality. I cannot stress this enough!!! For a culture that is obsessed with using an addiction paradigm to deal with pornography viewing, for example, we need to recognize that this fear-based approach contributes to the types of behaviors we are so desperately trying to stop. As leaders and educators we need to knock it off! http://www.patheos.com/blogs/mormontherapist/2014/02/morality-we-can-do-much-better-than-this.html
Mystery Meat Posted February 18, 2014 Posted February 18, 2014 This response to the Callister article in the March 2014 Ensign makes this observation from a clinical viewpoint: But pornography is an addiction...so we should stop calling it that? Source: 16 years of porn addiction.
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