Do Mormons Have A Superiority Complex?

[Coreyb]

sometimes I do, unfortunately

[Robert F. Smith]

   I dislike such generalizations. I do not think that LDS, as a whole, have such a complex. I am sure that most of us have met or conversed with a few individuals who may have such attitude. It only takes a few, especially if they are well known, to promote a perception accorded to all LDS by the general populace.

   I have never been taught that being a member of the church,  the one true church, brought with it any degree of moral superiority, but rather that where much is given, much is expected. The need for humility is continually taught at every level.

 

Glenn

I agree, and think it most unfortunate when the bad actions of a few (Jewish members of the mob, for example) bring disrepute to an entire community.

 

Too often, however, people actively involved in trying to improve the community are criticized for being "do-gooders" and the like, as though a term of opprobrium.

[danielwoods]

"...in humility consider others better than yourselves." - Philippians 2:3

[Robert F. Smith]

No, Mormons who refuse to wallow in the mire are not to be condemned; just those who THINK they are better than the wallowers. Because, in fact, while us Mormons do not drink or chew or go with girls that do, we also didn't stand up for equal rights with those "wallowing" Baptists, Jews, Catholics and even atheists who laid down their lives in peaceful civil disobedience.

You may well be too young to recall, or to have read about it, but there were Mormon activists on the barricades in all phases of the civil rights and antiwar movements.  My best friend (currently a retired professor and now an ordinance worker in an LDS temple) was a freedom rider in the deep South, while I myself marched with the SCLC, CORE, and the NAACP, among others.  I still remember the songs we sang.  How about you?

 

I was very happy to see mainstream Jews and Christians (and clergy) take an active part in that larger effort, all the while recognizing that it was precisely that mainstream Christianity which used the Bible and folklore to justify slavery, lynching, rape of black women, and the KKK -- until modern times -- while Joseph Smith was ordaining black men to the priesthood and running for President on a platform to free the slaves.

 

That Mormons reverted to a racist position after the death of Joseph was most unfortunate and cannot be justified, but that doesn't free those who justified centuries of horrendous mistreatment of black people in the deep South from their sorry state of overwhelming guilt.

 

..................................................   

So perhaps the next time, we're tempted to have pride that "we have chosen the better way than some societies," we might want to remember that others CHOSE to give up much more than cussing, iced tea and R-rated movies for the cause of equality. Dr. King, three freedom workers in Mississippi, four little girls in Birmingham and hundreds of others gave their very lives and I'd guess that not ONE of them had a valid temple recommend. In fact, I'm not sure any of them were keeping the commandments; well, except for one of the two greatest commandments -- to love thy neighbor.

...................................................

I was the same age as Emmet Till, and found his death traumatic and perplexing to me personally (I read of it in Life magazine with color photos of the horror).  I also ached to hear of the terrible deaths of Schwerner, Goodman, and Chaney, and of the little girls killed in that church, and of the impunity of White Southern racists.  Of George Corley Wallace, of Lester Maddox.  I had a hard time processing the evil and stupidity of their actions, and so did the rest of America.  However, I never saw that such evil had anything remotely to do with avoidance of evil by Mormons, or that it should be used by anyone as a weapon of attack against Mormons -- just because they were falsely perceived as not taking part in the civil rights movement or in antiwar actions.

 

There is also another issue to be raised in such matters:  Who are the people working behind the scenes to build better and more successful societies?  In postwar Germany and Austria, it was unobtrusive, unknown Mormon men who worked tirelessly to create a better tomorrow for those nations.  Most noteworthy among those the late Dale Clark, who headed a military group (with mainly guys who had served German-speaking missions) which helped found the dominant Christlich-Sozial Union (CSU) in Germany, which was accomplished through Germans retrieved from concentration camps (including Pastor Martin Niemöller), and even required a private audience for Clark with the Pope to gain acceptance among Bavarian Catholics.  Later Clark (not Sargent Shriver) founded the precursor and model for the Peace Corps.  There are many such exemplars of Mormons and their Church leading the way in creating a better world -- again and again ministering to the poor and downtrodden in substantial ways, all out of proportion to our numbers, often quietly behind the scenes.

You might want take a look at a summary of mine along those lines, “LDS Church Welfare Expenditures,” 2012, online at  http://www.scribd.com/doc/107498713/LDS-Church-Welfare-Expenditures .

[Robert F. Smith]

Unfortunately we do, suspect it is almost inevitable given our doctrine of being the only true Church, and being a peculiar people unto The Lord. What other Church refers to its members as Saints. It almost invites blowback. I have seen it displayed over and over again by members when there is little or no justification for it. I have raised before the missionary problem which exists when we are confronted by someone with more Christlike ethics and understanding than is generally displayed amongst the members.

The term "peculiar people" doesn't mean "weird" or "strange."  It means "owned by the Lord."

 

The term "Hassidim, Chasidim" means "Pious Ones, Saints."  The same word in Greek or Hebrew translated as "Saints" means "Holy Ones."  Such terms automatically create attention and invite calumny, deserved or not.

[Robert F. Smith]

George Romney on Civil Rights.

SEE http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Romney

Yes, Gov. George Romney took a strong anti-Vietnam War position.

He was also a strong proponent of civil rights and vehemently opposed segregation.  I recall that during the platform battle at the Republican National Convention in 1964 at the Cow Palace, Romney tried to get a civil rights plank into the Republican Platform.  He was shouted down by the overwhelmingly racist conventioneers.  Meanwhile, I was outside carrying a sign saying "Equal Voting Rights For All," walking around in a circle with other demonstrators with the Southern Christian Leadership Conference, singing those wonderful civil rights songs.  We had all signed statements of non-violence, and some of us were attacked by racists in the crowd.  Police immediately made arrests.

 

I recall taking a break outside the barricades set up by the police.  Along came a couple of very pretty young women my age from Texas dressed as cowgirls.  They looked at the demonstrators for a moment and said to each other:  "Why don't they send them back to to Russia."  I replied:  "Isn't that where ya'all come from?"  They walked off in a huff.

[Calm]

There is only one military action my dad ever speaks about and that was being one of the pilots for transporting men into Little Rock to make sure a little girl could get to school (how he describes it).**** I think he feels it was the most worthwhile thing he did while in thevAir Force.

For Christmas a few years ago, we got him a commemorative coin of the event. You can tell that he is not interested in most gifts we struggle to come up for him, this one lit up his eyes.

Not claiming that he was an activist by any definition, but one can contribute to change just by being an example and unlike their parents who though not negative about blacks, were very patronising to them, I never heard one racist sentiment come from either of my parents' lips. They managed to help the attitudes of at least five people, their children.

****most likely referring to Elizabeth Eckford who arrived by herself at Central HS. At 6'2", we were all little girls to him way into adulthood.

"The plan was to have the nine children arrive together, but when the meeting place was changed the night before, the Eckford family's lack of a telephone left Elizabeth uninformed of the change.[7] Instructions were given by Daisy Bates, a strong activist for desegregation, for the nine students to wait for her so that they could all walk together to the rear entrance of the school.[8] This last minute change caused Elizabeth to be the first to take a different route to school, walking up to the front entrance completely alone. Even though Elizabeth Eckford would one day be known as a member of the Little Rock Nine, at this point in the school day, she was all alone, making her the first African-American student to integrate a white southern high school.[3]"

Edited January 27, 2014 by calmoriah

[mormonnewb]

You may well be too young to recall, or to have read about it, but there were Mormon activists on the barricades in all phases of the civil rights and antiwar movements. My best friend (currently a retired professor and now an ordinance worker in an LDS temple) was a freedom rider in the deep South, while I myself marched with the SCLC, CORE, and the NAACP, among others. I still remember the songs we sang. How about you?

Yes, I am too young to have been a part of the civil rights movement. I am a beneficiary of your courage and honor and for that I am sincerely grateful. THANK YOU!

Yet, I'm not sure it's fair to say that Mormons were "pro-civil rights" just because of the actions of a few. By way of analogy, I have participated in Gay Pride events with a few other Mormons, but in no way, would anyone consider our church to be "pro-marriage equality." Our leaders have explicitly spoken out against gay marriage and that is the official stance of our church. Moreover, Our members have raised funds and actively campaigned against gay marriage.

With regards to civil rights, our leaders were AT BEST ambivalent on the issue. In fact, the NAACP implored the church to take an official stand in support of pending civil rights legislation in Utah by publishing a letter in the Deseret News. Church leaders declined, stating "We have decided to remain silent."

Glen W. Davidson, "Mormon Missionaries and the Race Question," The Christian Century, 29 Sept. 1965, pp. 1183-86.

And some leaders were even less than ambivalent. President Ezra Taft Benson's public disdain for the movement is well documented. And in at least one case, an LDS Apostle attempted to persuade Gov. Romney to change his position on integration.

http://www.boston.com/news/daily/24/delbert_stapley.pdf

So perhaps we should hold off on the ground breaking on the LDS Martyrs For Civil Rights Museum. A handful LDS members heeded the call to uphold the greater commandment but the VAST majority (say, 99%) were either ambivalent or opposed to the movement. This is not to denigrate the saints. Some of my best friends are Mormon . I just think it is something that should give us pause before proclaiming that we've "chosen a better way."

[thesometimesaint]

I was right on the cusp of the Civil Rights movement Era, age wise. I was 17 living in Huntsville; Alabama when MLK was murdered. My parents always taught us kids that God loved all of his  children. Old Christian children's song "Red and Yellow, Black or White all are precious in his sight".

 

It is always the few that get the ball rolling. I have no problem with putting those few in a museum. Be they LDS or not.

[Nofear]

But I do know many that say we are better off than anyone else...

 

And not just words either. The success of LDS living is not without quantifiable justification. As you already know, by many relevant social measures, LDS living is a highly successful course. Kind of annoys the enemies of the Church and instills envy in other Christian denominations.

[Robert F. Smith]

Yes, I am too young to have been a part of the civil rights movement. I am a beneficiary of your courage and honor and for that I am sincerely grateful. THANK YOU!

Yet, I'm not sure it's fair to say that Mormons were "pro-civil rights" just because of the actions of a few. By way of analogy, I have participated in Gay Pride events with a few other Mormons, but in no way, would anyone consider our church to be "pro-marriage equality." Our leaders have explicitly spoken out against gay marriage and that is the official stance of our church. Moreover, Our members have raised funds and actively campaigned against gay marriage.

With regards to civil rights, our leaders were AT BEST ambivalent on the issue. In fact, the NAACP implored the church to take an official stand in support of pending civil rights legislation in Utah by publishing a letter in the Deseret News. Church leaders declined, stating "We have decided to remain silent."

Glen W. Davidson, "Mormon Missionaries and the Race Question," The Christian Century, 29 Sept. 1965, pp. 1183-86.

And some leaders were even less than ambivalent. President Ezra Taft Benson's public disdain for the movement is well documented. And in at least one case, an LDS Apostle attempted to persuade Gov. Romney to change his position on integration.

http://www.boston.com/news/daily/24/delbert_stapley.pdf

So perhaps we should hold off on the ground breaking on the LDS Martyrs For Civil Rights Museum. A handful LDS members heeded the call to uphold the greater commandment but the VAST majority (say, 99%) were either ambivalent or opposed to the movement. This is not to denigrate the saints. Some of my best friends are Mormon . I just think it is something that should give us pause before proclaiming that we've "chosen a better way."

There was no more powerful anti-racist in the LDS Church than Pres. David O. McKay, who sought to begin ordaining black men and attempted to take the Gospel to black Africa.  He was stymied by the Pres. of the Twelve (who privately insisted that a revelation was necessary).  For whatever reason, a revelation was not forthcoming at that time.

 

Your 99% is doctrinaire nonsense, and Mormonism had plenty of anti-racists in its ranks back in the 1950s and 60s, even if it seems opaque to us now.  Yes the Church maintained formal silence on a great many issues, while opting for civility in public debate.  Even today, the Church attempts to maintain neutrality on many issues, while at the same time encouraging us to take part in the regular political process.  One can ignore Hugh Nibley, Lester Bush, Gene England, Bob Rees, Elder B. H. Roberts, Speaker Harry Reid, Pres. James Faust, or generations of Udalls, and many other Mormons who have taken a very different approach than the right-wingers whom you suggest constitute 99% of Mormondom.  This is a world Church, with most members living outside the USA.  Using silly Utah voting patterns (I'm not a Utahn    ) tells us nothing about the real Church, nor about the actual people of whom it is composed.

 

There were also plenty of anti-war advocates, such as President J. Reuben Clark, Jr., who (by the by) was deeply opposed to our use of the atom bomb in WW II.  See the 2010 Oxford International Encyclopedia of Peace, with my best friend's article on “Mormon Ethics and Peace” (Vol. 3: 56-62).  He also published War, Conscription, Conscience & Mormonism (1970-1971), and counseled LDS conscientious objectors.  You may be aware of pacifists in the Book of Mormon.

 

Yes, the Church opposes the active homosexual lifestyle, as a moral issue, just as previous generations of Americans opposed Mormon polygyny as a moral issue.  Unlike the latter, however, the Church does not advocate making homosexuality illegal, but instead urges civility in discourse about the matter.  We need to talk about the nuances as well as the ironies in such issues.  Too much finger-pointing is simply wrong, and how soon we forget the LDS Conference long ago in which gentle, loving passages from Carol Lynn Pearson's book, Goodbye, I Love You (1986), were read to the Mormon people.

[mormonnewb]

There was no more powerful anti-racist in the LDS Church than Pres. David O. McKay, who sought to begin ordaining black men and attempted to take the Gospel to black Africa.  He was stymied by the Pres. of the Twelve (who privately insisted that a revelation was necessary).  For whatever reason, a revelation was not forthcoming at that time.

 

Your 99% is doctrinaire nonsense, and Mormonism had plenty of anti-racists in its ranks back in the 1950s and 60s, even if it seems opaque to us now.  Yes the Church maintained formal silence on a great many issues, while opting for civility in public debate.  Even today, the Church attempts to maintain neutrality on many issues, while at the same time encouraging us to take part in the regular political process.  One can ignore Hugh Nibley, Lester Bush, Gene England, Bob Rees, Elder B. H. Roberts, Speaker Harry Reid, Pres. James Faust, or generations of Udalls, and many other Mormons who have taken a very different approach than the right-wingers whom you suggest constitute 99% of Mormondom.  This is a world Church, with most members living outside the USA.  Using silly Utah voting patterns (I'm not a Utahn     ) tells us nothing about the real Church, nor about the actual people of whom it is composed.

 

There were also plenty of anti-war advocates, such as President J. Reuben Clark, Jr., who (by the by) was deeply opposed to our use of the atom bomb in WW II.  See the 2010 Oxford International Encyclopedia of Peace, with my best friend's article on “Mormon Ethics and Peace” (Vol. 3: 56-62).  He also published War, Conscription, Conscience & Mormonism (1970-1971), and counseled LDS conscientious objectors.  You may be aware of pacifists in the Book of Mormon.

 

Yes, the Church opposes the active homosexual lifestyle, as a moral issue, just as previous generations of Americans opposed Mormon polygyny as a moral issue.  Unlike the latter, however, the Church does not advocate making homosexuality illegal, but instead urges civility in discourse about the matter.  We need to talk about the nuances as well as the ironies in such issues.  Too much finger-pointing is simply wrong, and how soon we forget the LDS Conference long ago in which gentle, loving passages from Carol Lynn Pearson's book, Goodbye, I Love You (1986), were read to the Mormon people.

 

With all due respect (and I do mean it as you are obviously EXTREMELY knowledgeable), but you seem to be trying to have your funeral potatoes and eating them too.    For example, you point to specific anti-war advocates.  Is it your contention that because of these few persons our church should be consider "anti-war" on the whole?  Or are you simply pointing out that there are always varying opinions amongst the membership?  If the latter is your point, I accept it wholeheartedly.

 

Yet, in the context of our original discussion, I thought that we were talking about the church members as a whole.  After all, when you praised the saints for their positive commitment to traditional values, you weren't saying that ALL saints lived up to these ideals, right? (Hint -- I'm one of those "saints")  I assume you meant that most saints live up to these values.

 

Likewise, when I pointed out our failure to rise to the challenge of the civil rights movement, I wasn't saying that this was true of ALL saints.  As you pointed out, there were many individuals who courageously stepped forward for the cause of equality.  But it was by NO MEANS most of the saints.

 

Once again, there are some of us who are currently standing for the cause of marriage equality but our position is not the church's official position nor is it the position held by most of the members.  In 50 years, someone on this board MAY ask one of our grandchildren why the church was on the wrong side of history on this issue (i.e., by opposing marriage equality).  Should our grandchildren counter that there were "plenty of pro-gay" Mormons and that the critic should not paint Mormons with such a broad brush?

 

All of that being written, I do want to earnestly thank you for giving me examples of Mormons who were involved in the civil rights movement.  One of my earliest stumbling blocks in joining the church was trying to reconcile how so many good people (with the aid of modern-day prophets no less) could have missed such a powerful move of Christian fellowship.  In fact, I can't think of a more powerful example of public Christianity in America than for people to lock arms and face down angry mobs armed only with the sounds of religious singing and faith that their God would deliver them.

 

One of these days, I'd love to get some insights into how the Church as a whole missed it, but for now, I'm somewhat comforted to know that there were many more saints than I previously realized who did "get it."  Once again, thank you for being one of them!

[DBMormon]

I do not know of any mormon teachings that suggest we are better than anyone else. 

Other then we are the one and only true Church and all others have creeds that are an abomination and their ministers hearts are far from God.   Other then that little tiny idea, I agree

[wtrdog]

I think a lot of Mormons absolutely have a superiority complex.  This isn't about teachings, of course this isn't taught, it's simply a cultural phenomenon.  I've found it gets worse he closer you get to Utah.  But even outside UT you'll find that a lot of members rely much too heavily on other members for their social group.  This is one reason our missionary program is doing so horribly, because most members don't really have any friends outside the church.

[Kenngo1969]

Other then we are the one and only true Church and all others have creeds that are an abomination and their ministers hearts are far from God.   Other then that little tiny idea, I agree

Creeds aren't people.

[Kenngo1969]

I think a lot of Mormons absolutely have a superiority complex.  . . .  I've found it gets worse he closer you get to Utah. . . .

Ah, well.  Perhaps the Wasatch Fault will rip the state asunder and solve your problem.

 

Sincerely,

 

-Ken

Charter Member and President, D*** Utah Mormons

(Scott Lloyd is my Vice President)

[wenglund]

We Mormons are above such trite things as a superiority complex.

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

[ERayR]

http://janariess.religionnews.com/2014/01/22/tiger-mom-claims-mormons-successful/

 

Riess discusses a new book by the author of Tiger Moms, Soccer Moms (Amy Chua) where she attributes the success of several groups (including Mormons to having a superiority complex, feeling insecure and impulse control. This view is attacked by a writer in Hong Kong  http://www.scmp.com/comment/insight-opinion/article/1410156/tiger-mom-amy-chuas-frightening-new-recipe-success

 

She writes "Her cocktail for success is frightening. Students who feel they are better than everyone else can ruin a class. I've come across many such students in Hong Kong over the years and it always takes a long time to undo the damage.

One of the worst things a parent can tell a child is that he or she should automatically expect to be the best - and, yet, this is something many Asian children are told. Its impact is far-reaching; at best, a superiority complex prevents students from working hard. At worst, it prevents them seeing what's great in other people - a tragedy far worse than a low IQ."

 

Don;'t they say EQ is more important than IQ. I found it Interesting point is that they find Jews who when they are not persecuted and accepted intermarry with non-jews whereas before they did not. Perhaps that's why some interesting LDS commentators have married outside their faith

 

If one doesn't strive to be the best the best they can hope for is mediocrity.  .

[ERayR]

I think a lot of Mormons absolutely have a superiority complex.  This isn't about teachings, of course this isn't taught, it's simply a cultural phenomenon.  I've found it gets worse he closer you get to Utah.  But even outside UT you'll find that a lot of members rely much too heavily on other members for their social group.  This is one reason our missionary program is doing so horribly, because most members don't really have any friends outside the church.

 

I think a lot of _______________ absolutely have a superiority complex.  Fill in the blank.

[ERayR]

We Mormons are above such trite things as a superiority complex.

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

 

You are so right.  That would be a flaw and we have none.

[thesometimesaint]

All the world is insane except for me and thee; and I worry about thee.

[Tacenda]

We laugh, but really have any of you looked at people you know and felt sorry for them?  Or felt that they are missing out?  Because they either weren't active or non members?  I have, and would think they were just wanting to have a fun time without worrying about a church or paying tithing.  I use to think this of my two sisters who aren't active.  But then I would often wonder why they were so darn happy, or so darn loving and doing wonderful things in the world.  Things for charity, donating time and money to several causes.  Then it made me think of my own happiness.  Yes, I served, but mostly in my ward or neighborhood.  And my husband and I didn't have the best relationship a lot of times, especially compared to their relationship with their husbands.  Ding, ding, ding, they can be just as happy or happier without the church.  So yes, I had a superiority complex, but no longer.  Oh, just remembered something my MIL said when she met my Catholic BIL (she is the ultimate LDS member, temple once a week, though not lately, etc.), she said to me, "he would make the best LDS member".  What's wrong with the fact that he is wonderful whatever his religion?            

[wenglund]

Regarding superiority complexes, I have no doubt that some members of the Church are far better than others when it comes to finding fault and complaining about the Church and thinking they know better than Christ what is best for his Church.

 

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Edited January 28, 2014 by wenglund

[The Nehor]

Oh Lord it is hard to be humble when you're as perfect as me.

[Stone holm]

Oh Lord it is hard to be humble when you're as perfect as me.

Collectively speaking.