Helen47 Posted January 25, 2014 Posted January 25, 2014 (edited) http://janariess.religionnews.com/2014/01/22/tiger-mom-claims-mormons-successful/ Riess discusses a new book by the author of Tiger Moms, Soccer Moms (Amy Chua) where she attributes the success of several groups (including Mormons to having a superiority complex, feeling insecure and impulse control. This view is attacked by a writer in Hong Kong http://www.scmp.com/comment/insight-opinion/article/1410156/tiger-mom-amy-chuas-frightening-new-recipe-success She writes "Her cocktail for success is frightening. Students who feel they are better than everyone else can ruin a class. I've come across many such students in Hong Kong over the years and it always takes a long time to undo the damage.One of the worst things a parent can tell a child is that he or she should automatically expect to be the best - and, yet, this is something many Asian children are told. Its impact is far-reaching; at best, a superiority complex prevents students from working hard. At worst, it prevents them seeing what's great in other people - a tragedy far worse than a low IQ." Don;'t they say EQ is more important than IQ. I found it Interesting point is that they find Jews who when they are not persecuted and accepted intermarry with non-jews whereas before they did not. Perhaps that's why some interesting LDS commentators have married outside their faith Edited January 25, 2014 by Helen47
Freedom Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 I do not know of any mormon teachings that suggest we are better than anyone else. 2
thatjimguy Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 I do not know of any mormon teachings that suggest we are better than anyone else. I doubt that too, but I'll bet it a LDS society thing. Some form of teaching got popular and it took off.
thatjimguy Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 Actually, now that I read the article a bit. The first thing that came to my mind is when at BYU-I, they talk of to the kids telling them that they are chosen specifcally for this time and place because of thier talents and righteousness they had in the pre-exsistance. Also, we are taught that we are the good ones from the pre-exsistence right? We chose to side with God. None of these things are really bad by themself. However, if humitily is lacking in an individual, then it's a problem. Maybe the leader are aware of the problem with Pride, because a lot of one year at BYU-I, they really hammered down teaching the Nephite Pride Cycle.
BCSpace Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 I don't know about any insecurity (which the article seems to justify btw). But I do know that when someone says I have weird underwear, it merely adds to my superiority complex.
BCSpace Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 I do not know of any mormon teachings that suggest we are better than anyone else. But I do know many that say we are better off than anyone else... 3
Robert F. Smith Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 Actually, now that I read the article a bit. The first thing that came to my mind is when at BYU-I, they talk of to the kids telling them that they are chosen specifcally for this time and place because of thier talents and righteousness they had in the pre-exsistance. Also, we are taught that we are the good ones from the pre-exsistence right? We chose to side with God.That is blatant false doctrine (the sort of thing one expects from Zoramites) and heavily criticized by the Brethren. Everyone who is or ever has been on Earth sided with God. None of these things are really bad by themself. However, if humitily is lacking in an individual, then it's a problem. Maybe the leader are aware of the problem with Pride, because a lot of one year at BYU-I, they really hammered down teaching the Nephite Pride Cycle.Pride and lack of humility are a huge problem in any successful society, especially among the rich. 2
Robert F. Smith Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 I doubt that too, but I'll bet it a LDS society thing. Some form of teaching got popular and it took off.I think many Mormons rightly consider that their society has a positive commitment to traditional values. All around them they can see the result of lack of adherence to such values and the unhappiness which it brings. It is not false pride to think that we have chosen the better way than that of some societies. It isn't that someone is arrogant and lacking in humility when they refuse to cuss, smoke, drink, do drugs, carouse, lie, cheat, and steal, and otherwise act like irresponsible fools. Rather it is simply good judgment and righteousness in accordance with God's Plan of Happiness. That's what we're here for, Jim. 1
mormonnewb Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 I think many Mormons rightly consider that their society has a positive commitment to traditional values. All around them they can see the result of lack of adherence to such values and the unhappiness which it brings. It is not false pride to think that we have chosen the better way than that of some societies. It isn't that someone is arrogant and lacking in humility when they refuse to cuss, smoke, drink, do drugs, carouse, lie, cheat, and steal, and otherwise act like irresponsible fools. Rather it is simply good judgment and righteousness in accordance with God's Plan of Happiness. That's what we're here for, Jim.Luke 1810 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted. 1
Robert F. Smith Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 Luke 1810 Two men went up into the temple to pray; the one a Pharisee, and the other a publican.11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.13 And the publican, standing afar off, would not lift up so much as his eyes unto heaven, but smote upon his breast, saying, God be merciful to me a sinner.14 I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.So the hated publican (tax collector) owns up to his shortcomings. Good. Should he then wallow in the mire with pigs, or should he try following in the footsteps of the Savior? Are Mormons who refuse to wallow in the mire thus to be condemned? The Mormons I know do not boast about the tithes they've paid (the matter is confidential), they humbly donate time to worthy projects -- helping a neighbor, serving at the LDS meat packing plant, welfare farm, cannery, or the temple, etc. None that I know ever look like they are fasting, even though they do. Instead one sees a cheerful disposition and love for others. I know none of them who congratulate themselves in prayer for being righteous. I do, however, know of individuals and religious groups which emphasize getting full recognition for donations to worthy causes, having buildings and such named for them, etc. Fame here and now holds a spell over their lives. These are not traditional values that are upheld by Mormons, with noteworthy and rare exceptions. 1
Glenn101 Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 I dislike such generalizations. I do not think that LDS, as a whole, have such a complex. I am sure that most of us have met or conversed with a few individuals who may have such attitude. It only takes a few, especially if they are well known, to promote a perception accorded to all LDS by the general populace. I have never been taught that being a member of the church, the one true church, brought with it any degree of moral superiority, but rather that where much is given, much is expected. The need for humility is continually taught at every level. Glenn 3
mormonnewb Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 (edited) So the hated publican (tax collector) owns up to his shortcomings. Good. Should he then wallow in the mire with pigs, or should he try following in the footsteps of the Savior? Are Mormons who refuse to wallow in the mire thus to be condemned? The Mormons I know do not boast about the tithes they've paid (the matter is confidential), they humbly donate time to worthy projects -- helping a neighbor, serving at the LDS meat packing plant, welfare farm, cannery, or the temple, etc. None that I know ever look like they are fasting, even though they do. Instead one sees a cheerful disposition and love for others. I know none of them who congratulate themselves in prayer for being righteous.I do, however, know of individuals and religious groups which emphasize getting full recognition for donations to worthy causes, having buildings and such named for them, etc. Fame here and now holds a spell over their lives. These are not traditional values that are upheld by Mormons, with noteworthy and rare exceptions.No, Mormons who refuse to wallow in the mire are not to be condemned; just those who THINK they are better than the wallowers. Because, in fact, while us Mormons do not drink or chew or go with girls that do, we also didn't stand up for equal rights with those "wallowing" Baptists, Jews, Catholics and even atheists who laid down their lives in peaceful civil disobedience.Matthew 23:23. "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment , mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done , and not to leave the other undone."So perhaps the next time, we're tempted to have pride that "we have chosen the better way than some societies," we might want to remember that others CHOSE to give up much more than cussing, iced tea and R-rated movies for the cause of equality. Dr. King, three freedom workers in Mississippi, four little girls in Birmingham and hundreds of others gave their very lives and I'd guess that not ONE of them had a valid temple recommend. In fact, I'm not sure any of them were keeping the commandments; well, except for one of the two greatest commandments -- to love thy neighbor.John 15:13. "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." Edited January 26, 2014 by mormonnewb 1
thatjimguy Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 I think many Mormons rightly consider that their society has a positive commitment to traditional values. All around them they can see the result of lack of adherence to such values and the unhappiness which it brings. It is not false pride to think that we have chosen the better way than that of some societies. It isn't that someone is arrogant and lacking in humility when they refuse to cuss, smoke, drink, do drugs, carouse, lie, cheat, and steal, and otherwise act like irresponsible fools. Rather it is simply good judgment and righteousness in accordance with God's Plan of Happiness. That's what we're here for, Jim. Of course many consider us a positive influence for all the reasons you mentioned, but would it be too hard to figure that some are too full of themselves, which is what the OP is about? Or at the very least come across the wrong way? I am not saying I think this of the majority of LDS, I just don't discount the idea that it can exsist. 1
thatjimguy Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 I have never been taught that being a member of the church, the one true church, brought with it any degree of moral superiority, but rather that where much is given, much is expected. The need for humility is continually taught at every level. Glenn We do have to be humble for sure. Probably doesn't help that we could say that before and after saying "we are the one true church" and bystanders will only hear the "we are the one true church" part and run with it, forgetting we even mentioned humility.
thatjimguy Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 That is blatant false doctrine (the sort of thing one expects from Zoramites) and heavily criticized by the Brethren. Everyone who is or ever has been on Earth sided with God. Yeah, that distinction is not really made. I mean, I guess the speakers could have meant the whole world, but it didn't sound like it the way they said it.
thesometimesaint Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 No, Mormons who refuse to wallow in the mire are not to be condemned; just those who THINK they are better than the wallowers. Because, in fact, while us Mormons do not drink or chew or go with girls that do, we also didn't stand up for equal rights with those "wallowing" Baptists, Jews, Catholics and even atheists who laid down their lives in peaceful civil disobedience.Matthew 23:23. "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment , mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done , and not to leave the other undone."So perhaps the next time, we're tempted to have pride that "we have chosen the better way than some societies," we might want to remember that others CHOSE to give up much more than cussing, iced tea and R-rated movies for the cause of equality. Dr. King, three freedom workers in Mississippi, four little girls in Birmingham and hundreds of others gave their very lives and I'd guess that not ONE of them had a valid temple recommend. In fact, I'm not sure any of them were keeping the commandments; well, except for one of the two greatest commandments -- to love thy neighbor.John 15:13. "Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends." George Romney on Civil Rights.SEE http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Romney
CA Steve Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 So when we claim to be the possessors of God's power here on earth and members of His Church, with the knowledge and ability to guide people back to him, that's not"better"? Clearly we view our religion and religious beliefs as superior to any others. It is my opinion that while we might not see that as a superiority complex, many in the outside world would.
thesometimesaint Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 So when we claim to be the possessors of God's power here on earth and members of His Church, with the knowledge and ability to guide people back to him, that's not"better"? Clearly we view our religion and religious beliefs as superior to any others. It is my opinion that while we might not see that as a superiority complex, many in the outside world would. They have an inferiority complex. 2
Buzzard Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 So when we claim to be the possessors of God's power here on earth and members of His Church, with the knowledge and ability to guide people back to him, that's not"better"? Clearly we view our religion and religious beliefs as superior to any others. It is my opinion that while we might not see that as a superiority complex, many in the outside world would.I feel very strongly that I am no better than my "gentile" neighbors. However, I feel just as strongly that my religion is (for lack of a better word) superior to all others, since God said it was. If anything, this makes me personally worse than my friends, since I have more light and knowledge, and often do less with it. 2
changed Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 (edited) I feel very strongly that I am no better than my "gentile" neighbors. However, I feel just as strongly that my religion is (for lack of a better word) superior to all others, since God said it was. If anything, this makes me personally worse than my friends, since I have more light and knowledge, and often do less with it.Yes, we're all imperfect - It has always amazed me who God chooses to be his disciples/apostles... "rough stones rolling" for sure... Edited January 26, 2014 by changed
Popular Post Freedom Posted January 26, 2014 Popular Post Posted January 26, 2014 Everybody with a point of view could be considered to have a superior complex. I believe Canada to be the best country on the earth, and British Columbia to be the best province in this country. I believe my job to be the best job on earth, and my wife to be the most beautiful wife on earth. It is called being in control of your life and being content. People who feel otherwise about their circumstances (all things being equal) would be unhappy no matter where they were. Everybody beliefs they are right; after all, if they didn't believe they were right they wouldn't believe it. 6
Stone holm Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 Unfortunately we do, suspect it is almost inevitable given our doctrine of being the only true Church, and being a peculiar people unto The Lord. What other Church refers to its members as Saints. It almost invites blowback. I have seen it displayed over and over again by members when there is little or no justification for it. I have raised before the missionary problem which exists when we are confronted by someone with more Christlike ethics and understanding than is generally displayed amongst the members.
thesometimesaint Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 Unfortunately we do, suspect it is almost inevitable given our doctrine of being the only true Church, and being a peculiar people unto The Lord. What other Church refers to its members as Saints. It almost invites blowback. I have seen it displayed over and over again by members when there is little or no justification for it. I have raised before the missionary problem which exists when we are confronted by someone with more Christlike ethics and understanding than is generally displayed amongst the members.The Bible refers to us as Saints. That the Catholics changed the meaning a couple of thousand years ago, and that the term stuck with the rest of Christianity is nothing more that a fluke of history. I've got a pretty good understanding of the Gospel, and my morals don't take a back seat to anyone's. 1
mormonnewb Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 I feel very strongly that I am no better than my "gentile" neighbors. However, I feel just as strongly that my religion is (for lack of a better word) superior to all others, since God said it was. If anything, this makes me personally worse than my friends, since I have more light and knowledge, and often do less with it.Amen!
bluebell Posted January 26, 2014 Posted January 26, 2014 Actually, now that I read the article a bit. The first thing that came to my mind is when at BYU-I, they talk of to the kids telling them that they are chosen specifcally for this time and place because of thier talents and righteousness they had in the pre-exsistance. Also, we are taught that we are the good ones from the pre-exsistence right? We chose to side with God. None of these things are really bad by themself. However, if humitily is lacking in an individual, then it's a problem. Maybe the leader are aware of the problem with Pride, because a lot of one year at BYU-I, they really hammered down teaching the Nephite Pride Cycle. These things (that we are saved for this day because of good qualities and that we are the good ones from the pre-existence) apply to everyone on the earth, not just members.
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