Adam And The Apes

[Helen47]

http://biologos.org/blog/evolution-basics-from-primate-to-human-part-1

 

if our DNA correlates a high percentage of similarity how does this challenge the Adam and Eve story? Apes were created on a different day.

[Blah]

http://biologos.org/blog/evolution-basics-from-primate-to-human-part-1

if our DNA correlates a high percentage of similarity how does this challenge the Adam and Eve story? Apes were created on a different day.

False. Even if we interpret Genesis 1 literally (and I don't think we should), Adam and Eve were created on the sixth day, same day as the "beast of the earth".

[JLHPROF]

http://biologos.org/blog/evolution-basics-from-primate-to-human-part-1

 

if our DNA correlates a high percentage of similarity how does this challenge the Adam and Eve story? Apes were created on a different day.

 

I don't think our DNA correlating with apes means any more than the fact that all life here is carbon based.  I don't believe the correlating DNA shows a shared ancestor, just similar building blocks (elements).

[mfbukowski]

Why should it?

 

Do you think Adam and Eve is a science text or something?

[changed]

I don't think our DNA correlating with apes means any more than the fact that all life here is carbon based.  I don't believe the correlating DNA shows a shared ancestor, just similar building blocks (elements).

This is interesting:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizontal_gene_transfer

HGT means you can share the same genes, and not share the same ancestors. 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

That said, I'm personally a fan of Panspermia. 

http://panspermia.org/

I think our world was built on the ruins of another world.

For behold, there are many worlds that have passed away...Moses 1:35

We have other accounts of new worlds being built on the ruins of older worlds...

AND I saw a new bheaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away... Revelation 21:1

I think Eden was somewhere between heaven and earth, that eating the fruit and being cast out of Eden is where Adam and Eve really came into our world.... then perhaps mixed with the indiginous population?

Genesis 6:2... the sons of God saw the daughters of men

the children of God vs. the children of men?

 

Edited January 7, 2014 by changed

[Tiki]

Adam was the first flesh upon the Earth: Moses 3:7. Try again.

The Genesis account is the spiritual creation. Read Moses 3 thoroughly including its heading.

[thesometimesaint]

http://biologos.org/blog/evolution-basics-from-primate-to-human-part-1

 

if our DNA correlates a high percentage of similarity how does this challenge the Adam and Eve story? Apes were created on a different day.

 

There is no correlation between the Adam and Eve stories and the facts of the evolution of our species. Unless it is where Adam and Eve lived in central Africa some 200,000-250,000 years ago.

 

All life on this planet is descendent from simpler organisms. The more closely a species DNA is to another species the more closely they are related biologically. Our(human) DNA is about 98-99% the same as our closest living cousins the great apes, somewhat closer to the Chimps than the Gorillas.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution

 

As a LDS I have no problem at all with God using evolution in his creation of everything, including us.

[Helen47]

If Adam had ape ancestors how do you deal with the scripture "Let us make man in our own image"

[cdowis]

Adam was the first flesh upon the Earth: Moses 3:7. Try again.

The Genesis account is the spiritual creation. Read Moses 3 thoroughly including its heading.

 

"Try again"

 

OK.  The "first flesh" has been interpreted in several ways, such as "the first creature to be subject to death".

[CV75]

http://biologos.org/blog/evolution-basics-from-primate-to-human-part-1

 

if our DNA correlates a high percentage of similarity how does this challenge the Adam and Eve story? Apes were created on a different day.

That all mortal life on earth (originally created on different days) requires Carbon as the key component allows that DNA also correllates (to some degree or another) among all life on Earth and challenges nothing about eh Adam and Eve story.

[halconero]

If Adam had ape ancestors how do you deal with the scripture "Let us make man in our own image"

First, a nitpick. Humans are apes. We're part of the super family called "hominoidea."

This scripture does nothing to tell us the manner, the means, or the timeline whereby man was created. It simply states that humanity was formed in God's image.

Did that formation occur through evolution, creation Ad nihilio, or some other manner?

[Grudunza]

And being made in His image does not preclude the differences in image there may have been in the development of that image.

If you draw a detailed sketch of a human body, it will go through many stages of sketching and erasing and shaping before you get to the image that looks like the real thing.

If we are eternal spirits, being given the gift of physical bodies to inhabit, does it really matter the process whereby those physical bodies came to be? Is your body any less sacred or valuable if it was developed through an evolutionary process?

[Anne E. Prufe]

As a LDS I have no problem at all with God using evolution in his creation of everything, including us.

 

How do you harmonize having "no problem at all with God using evolution in his creation of everything, including us" with the hundreds of statements by Presidents of the Church that blatantly contradict any such harmonization?  http://www.josephsmithforum.org/research/faqs/science/

[DJBrown]

 

All life on this planet is descendent from simpler organisms. The more closely a species DNA is to another species the more closely they are related biologically. Our(human) DNA is about 98-99% the same as our closest living cousins the great apes, somewhat closer to the Chimps than the Gorillas.

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_evolution

 

As a LDS I have no problem at all with God using evolution in his creation of everything, including us.

 

This logic could be applied to evaluating cars.  We would similarly conclude that a 2014 BMW 740 Li was literally descended from a 1924 Ford Model T.  There is a good alternative explanation for organisms having similar parts, including DNA.  And it does not involve one organism descending from another more primitive organism.

 

The First Presidency stated that humans did not descend from more primitive species.  I believe that.  And I do not see the scientific evidence contradicting that.

Edited January 7, 2014 by DJBrown

[Rob Osborn]

http://biologos.org/blog/evolution-basics-from-primate-to-human-part-1

 

if our DNA correlates a high percentage of similarity how does this challenge the Adam and Eve story? Apes were created on a different day.

The scriptures actually say that Adam was created on the earth on the seventh day and was the first before any animal was created

[teddyaware]

False. Even if we interpret Genesis 1 literally (and I don't think we should), Adam and Eve were created on the sixth day, same day as the "beast of the earth".

The bodies of Adam and Eve were created on the 7th day. What took place on the sixth day, according to the Book of Moses, was a spiritual creation. Carefully read the following for it clearly and unambiguously affirms the bodies of Adam and Eve were created on the 7th day, not the 6th.

3 And I, God, blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it; because that in it I had rested from all my work which I, God, had created and made.

4 And now, behold, I say unto you, that these are the generations of the heaven and of the earth, when they were created, in the day that I, the Lord God, made the heaven and the earth,

5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew. For I, the Lord God, created all things, of which I have spoken, spiritually, before they were naturally upon the face of the earth. For I, the Lord God, had not caused it to rain upon the face of the earth. And I, the Lord God, had created all the children of men; and not yet a man to till the ground; for in heaven created I them; and there was not yet flesh upon the earth, neither in the water, neither in the air;

6 But I, the Lord God, spake, and there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.

7 And I, the Lord God, formed man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul, the first flesh upon the earth, the first man also; nevertheless, all things were before created; but spiritually were they created and made according to my word.

8 And I, the Lord God, planted a garden eastward in Eden, and there I put the man whom I had formed. (Moses 2)

Edited January 7, 2014 by teddyaware

[Maestrophil]

 

 

How do you harmonize having "no problem at all with God using evolution in his creation of everything, including us" with the hundreds of statements by Presidents of the Church that blatantly contradict any such harmonization?  http://www.josephsmithforum.org/research/faqs/science/

 

Probably the same way that I deal with previous distasteful comments from GAs about race, and the Catholic Church, and moon men,  and any other issue where more knowledge has been gained - Presidents of the church are entitled to erroneous opinions just like the rest of us. 

[teddyaware]

Probably the same way that I deal with previous distasteful comments from GAs about race, and the Catholic Church, and moon men,  and any other issue where more knowledge has been gained - Presidents of the church are entitled to erroneous opinions just like the rest of us.

But what happens when the words of the prophets are canonized in the scriptures?

3 And I, God, blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it; because that in it I had rested from all my work which I, God, had created and made.

4 And now, behold, I say unto you, that these are the generations of the heaven and of the earth, when they were created, in the day that I, the Lord God, made the heaven and the earth,

5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew. For I, the Lord God, created all things, of which I have spoken, spiritually, before they were naturally upon the face of the earth. For I, the Lord God, had not caused it to rain upon the face of the earth. And I, the Lord God, had created all the children of men; and not yet a man to till the ground; for in heaven created I them; and there was not yet flesh upon the earth, neither in the water, neither in the air;

6 But I, the Lord God, spake, and there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.

7 And I, the Lord God, formed man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul, the first flesh upon the earth, the first man also; nevertheless, all things were before created; but spiritually were they created and made according to my word.

8 And I, the Lord God, planted a garden eastward in Eden, and there I put the man whom I had formed. (Moses 2)

[Maestrophil]

But what happens when the words of the prophets are canonized in the scriptures?

3 And I, God, blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it; because that in it I had rested from all my work which I, God, had created and made.

4 And now, behold, I say unto you, that these are the generations of the heaven and of the earth, when they were created, in the day that I, the Lord God, made the heaven and the earth,

5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew. For I, the Lord God, created all things, of which I have spoken, spiritually, before they were naturally upon the face of the earth. For I, the Lord God, had not caused it to rain upon the face of the earth. And I, the Lord God, had created all the children of men; and not yet a man to till the ground; for in heaven created I them; and there was not yet flesh upon the earth, neither in the water, neither in the air;

6 But I, the Lord God, spake, and there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.

7 And I, the Lord God, formed man from the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul, the first flesh upon the earth, the first man also; nevertheless, all things were before created; but spiritually were they created and made according to my word.

8 And I, the Lord God, planted a garden eastward in Eden, and there I put the man whom I had formed. (Moses 2)

Teddy,

 

I do not claim to know anything pertaining to how God created the earth.  I just know that there are many interpretations... such as first flesh meaning first "mortal" flesh.  I am not arguing for one or the other, just stating that I don't see a problem with people being able to hold differing views on the matter. Especially since the church has not taken a hard official stance on the matter.

 

As for me, thinking of attempting to figure out how God in his infinite superiority does anything just ,makes my poor pea brain hurt!

 

:-)

[Calm]

And being made in His image does not preclude the differences in image there may have been in the development of that image.

If you draw a detailed sketch of a human body, it will go through many stages of sketching and erasing and shaping before you get to the image that looks like the real thing.

Nice analogy...very visual.

[Calm]

http://www.josephsmithforum.org/research/faqs/science/

Total aside...I love how that forum emphasizes they will let the prophets' words speak for themselves adding as little commentary as possible...and then it uses a bunch of loaded questions, lol....not that they actually keep themselves from guiding the inferences to be made by limiting commentary either. Edited January 7, 2014 by calmoriah

[cdowis]

The scriptures actually say that Adam was created on the earth on the seventh day and was the first before any animal was created

You are mistaken. 

[Nofear]

I tend to find a lot of the evolution "debate" over-hyped. It seems like the interlocutors want to treat evolution as a binary element (all true or all false). I reject both such polarized stances. Let us consider a few things:

 

LDS Fact: Our race pre-dates this planet.

LDS Fact: Our race inhabits countless worlds.

 

Scientific Fact: There are many man-like creatures who are part of our past.

Scientific Fact: There is a high degree of biological similarity between contemporary man and aforementioned man-like creatures.

Scientific Fact: Our physical body is intimately integrated into a larger biosphere in this planet (metabolism, microbial symbiosis, etc.)

 

That our species pre-dates and inhabits a countless plurality of worlds makes unguided evolution improbable to say the least. Even if a couple of worlds might accidentally make for similar biological forms, the probability of random accident creating the similarity required by LDS doctrine across countless worlds is just not possible.

 

By the same token, each planet is different: different obliquity, different day length, different UV levels, different atmosphere, etc. etc. etc. It many respects the differences may only be slight but the potential impacts of each of those differences -- individually or in the aggregate -- on the planet's biological inhabitants is far from trivial. Perhaps God could engineer everything exactly but remember that God doesn't work that way. For each world, the future Children of Adam participated in the engineering of that planet. A mechanism like unto evolution seems like a downright brilliant way to customize mortal life for each world even with the participation of not-so-perfect designers (e.g. us). But neither is unguided evolution the whole story. That physical bodies suitable for our Adam and Eve and their children arrived is far from accidental.

 

TLDR: my mortal, physical body -- while created in the image of God -- is intimately tied to this world and this world alone. The same holds for countless worlds. Evolutionary mechanisms seems profoundly suited to that level of customization. Nor does it in anyway detract from the fact that our spirit body pre-dates this world and that in the resurrection our physical bodies will be "perfected".

[Rob Osborn]

You are mistaken. 

How so?

[teddyaware]

Both sides are correct. According to Moses 2, the spiritual creation of man happened in the 6th day, and the earthly bodies of Adam and Eve were created on the 7th day...

3 And I, God, blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it; because that in it I had rested from all my work which I, God, had created and made.
4 And now, behold, I say unto you, that these are the generations of the heaven and of the earth, when they were created, in the day (the 6th day) that I, the Lord God, made the heaven and the earth,
5 And every plant of the field before it was in the earth, and every herb of the field before it grew. For I, the Lord God, created all things, of which I have spoken, spiritually, before they were naturally upon the face of the earth. For I, the Lord God, had not caused it to rain upon the face of the earth. And I, the Lord God, had created all the children of men (on the 6th day); and not yet a man to till the ground; for in heaven created I them; and there was not yet flesh upon the earth, neither in the water, neither in the air;
6 But I, the Lord God, spake, and there went up a mist from the earth, and watered the whole face of the ground.
7 And I, the Lord God, formed man from the dust of the ground (this is happening on the 7th day), and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul, the first flesh upon the earth, the first man also; nevertheless, all things were before created; but spiritually were they created and made according to my word.
8 And I, the Lord God, planted a garden eastward in Eden, and there I put the man whom I had formed. (Moses 2)

Edited January 7, 2014 by teddyaware