Faith Is Uncomfortable

[Mystery Meat]

As I have been pondering my own experiences with my testimony, I think I have learned quite about what faith is meant to be. I think for a long time I said I knew the church was true. The last few years that has changed to I hope the Church is true, and now, I believe the Church is true. Quite frankly, I think I enjoyed life a lot more when I was in the I know the church is true camp.

 

Faith is uncomfortable. Implied in faith is certain amount of uncertainty, and I believe that it is the nature of mankind to resist and despise uncertainty. Perhaps, that is hardwired into us and is part of eternal identity or maybe it is a result of the fall. From my own personal experience, those I know who have lost their faith/belief in the Church, and even the discussions I have heard and had with atheists it is this discomfort that causes them to reject religion, reject Mormonism, and causes a bit of anxiety (in my case). 

 

And through it all I have learned, at least in part, why faith is the first principal of the gospel. Some people fight against it. I know that it is an ongoing battle I have. After spending my entire life convinced I knew for certain that something so monumental was true and right, going to a place where I had to rely on faith was like turning my whole world upside down. I could see why others wouldn't be able to come out of such a transformation cleanly or even why there are some who don't have faith in the first place. 

 

In some ways, I think we do a disservice to each other in the Church when we talk so much about knowing. Kids that 8 get up in sacrament meeting and talk about how they know the church is true. Now, it is not my place to tell others, even the youngest of young that they don't know just because of my recent transition. So if you do know I say awesome. It is an awesome gift. Cherish it. But for me I was taught to say I know it is true. Maybe I did, and for one reason or another my testimony slipped. But I truly believe that in part we as a Church culture try to avoid having faith because it is uncomfortable. But I have found that because I am no longer as sure as I once was my prayers are much more sincere, my study is much more desperate, and my desires are much more...pure. By convincing myself that I knew, when perhaps I didn't, I think I robbed myself of the growth that comes with allowing for faith. 

 

And so, I guess what I am trying to say is that faith is a big deal. It is a choice. Some call it cognitive dissonance and to an extent perhaps they are right. Maybe they are even synonyms. Quite frankly I don't care. I believe the Church is true. That requires that I truly exercise my faith. And where there is exercise there is an increase in strength. 

 

Choose faith. 

[changed]

... Implied in faith is certain amount of uncertainty, and I believe that it is the nature of mankind to resist and despise uncertainty.

. 

You might enjoy reading about Perry's scheme or intellectual development -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_G._Perry

It's a common trend to start with "knowledge" and then progress to "belief". 

Edited December 6, 2013 by changed

[teddyaware]

As I have been pondering my own experiences with my testimony, I think I have learned quite about what faith is meant to be. I think for a long time I said I knew the church was true. The last few years that has changed to I hope the Church is true, and now, I believe the Church is true. Quite frankly, I think I enjoyed life a lot more when I was in the I know the church is true camp.

 

Faith is uncomfortable. Implied in faith is certain amount of uncertainty, and I believe that it is the nature of mankind to resist and despise uncertainty. Perhaps, that is hardwired into us and is part of eternal identity or maybe it is a result of the fall. From my own personal experience, those I know who have lost their faith/belief in the Church, and even the discussions I have heard and had with atheists it is this discomfort that causes them to reject religion, reject Mormonism, and causes a bit of anxiety (in my case). 

 

And through it all I have learned, at least in part, why faith is the first principal of the gospel. Some people fight against it. I know that it is an ongoing battle I have. After spending my entire life convinced I knew for certain that something so monumental was true and right, going to a place where I had to rely on faith was like turning my whole world upside down. I could see why others wouldn't be able to come out of such a transformation cleanly or even why there are some who don't have faith in the first place. 

 

In some ways, I think we do a disservice to each other in the Church when we talk so much about knowing. Kids that 8 get up in sacrament meeting and talk about how they know the church is true. Now, it is not my place to tell others, even the youngest of young that they don't know just because of my recent transition. So if you do know I say awesome. It is an awesome gift. Cherish it. But for me I was taught to say I know it is true. Maybe I did, and for one reason or another my testimony slipped. But I truly believe that in part we as a Church culture try to avoid having faith because it is uncomfortable. But I have found that because I am no longer as sure as I once was my prayers are much more sincere, my study is much more desperate, and my desires are much more...pure. By convincing myself that I knew, when perhaps I didn't, I think I robbed myself of the growth that comes with allowing for faith. 

 

And so, I guess what I am trying to say is that faith is a big deal. It is a choice. Some call it cognitive dissonance and to an extent perhaps they are right. Maybe they are even synonyms. Quite frankly I don't care. I believe the Church is true. That requires that I truly exercise my faith. And where there is exercise there is an increase in strength. 

 

Choose faith.

I choose to exercise enough faith to know.

[Mystery Meat]

I choose to exercise enough faith to know.

 

That is my goal as well. In the time being my faith will have to be enough.

[teddyaware]

That is my goal as well. In the time being my faith will have to be enough.

This is a good thing.

[Ahab]

Faith is uncomfortable. Implied in faith is certain amount of uncertainty, and I believe that it is the nature of mankind to resist and despise uncertainty.

To me that perception is like looking at a glass that is half full and calling it half empty.  Faith is a feeling of certainty to the point where you can feel "sure" about whatever it is you have faith in, and while you can doubt what you are sure about to some extent I think it's important to notice that to have faith is to be sure, even if you aren't totally sure. 

 

I can understand why someone might want to question why they feel sure about what they feel sure about, like questioning where did that certainty came from, but first realize that you actually have that feeling of certainty, and thus you have faith, even if you don't know how you got it.

[CV75]

Choose faith.

I see faith and knowledge as indispensable to each other (Alma 32), and as complementary opposing parts of the compound in one. I have found the more I know, the more I also have faith in, and the more I have faith in, the more knowledge I attain. Growth is generally uncomfortable, I agree.

Another way I look at it is as an expanding balloon. The balloon contains what I know, and what I don't know is outside the balloon. As the balloon expands, the greater its frontier with all that I don't know. And the more I realize the vastness of what I don't know, the more faith I need to exercise.

[AndyDnom]

 to each their own. i went from "i hope the church is true" to "i know the church is not true"

 

and i've never been happier. my life has never been better.

[Kenngo1969]

"I know" and "I believe"/"I hope" can be shorthand for a lot of things.  For me, saying, "I know the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ is true," is the equivalent of saying, "The Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ has born abundant good fruit in my life."  It "works" for me.  (Which is not to say that all facets or aspects of it work equally well for me: that's a work in progress, I suppose.)  After Christ called Himself the Bread of Life and said that people must eat of His flesh in order to have eternal life, many of His disciples, "went back, and walked no more with Him" (John 6:66), whereupon He asked the Apostles, "Will ye also go away?" (v. 67).  In response, Peter asked, "Lord, to whom shall we go?  Thou hast the words of eternal life" (v. 68).

 

There are a lot of things I don't know that I wish I did.  I can only shrug and say, as did Nephi, "I know not the meaning of all things.  Nevertheless, I know that [God] loveth His children."  And I ought to be a better man in many ways.  I often try, and most of the time I fall short.  But I can't deny the experiences I've had, and, like Peter, I wouldn't know where else (and to whom) to go.

Edited December 6, 2013 by Kenngo1969

[teddyaware]

to each their own. i went from "i hope the church is true" to "i know the church is not true"

 

and i've never been happier. my life has never been better.

Could it be that you're actually whistling past the graveyard?

[changed]

 to each their own. i went from "i hope the church is true" to "i know the church is not true"

 

and i've never been happier. my life has never been better.

I'm happy!! Really, I'm happy!!!

LOL, I'm always a little suspicious of those who proclaim something like how "happy" they are  

[teddyaware]

to each their own. i went from "i hope the church is true" to "i know the church is not true"

 

and i've never been happier. my life has never been better.

Andy, I ask the following question with respect and consideration: I'm genuinely interested to know the

specific reasons why you're happier now that you "know the church is not true?" If you wouldn't mind,

would you kindly list at least 5 of the reasons why you're happier?

Edited December 6, 2013 by teddyaware

[pogi]

 to each their own. i went from "i hope the church is true" to "i know the church is not true"

 

and i've never been happier. my life has never been better.

 

You mean, you went from "I hope the church is true" to "I hope the church is not true…otherwise I am not justified."  

[bluebell]

Could it be that you're actually whistling past the graveyard?

 

I'm happy!! Really, I'm happy!!!

LOL, I'm always a little suspicious of those who proclaim something like how "happy" they are

 

You mean, you went from "I hope the church is true" to "I hope the church is not true…otherwise I am not justified."  

 

Since there's no way to judge the sincerity of Andy's happiness, why don't we just take him at his word?  He knows that all members will disagree, so we don't have to worry that if we don't say something casting doubt on his post that he won't know where we stand.  

 

 

And I accidentally gave Teddy a rep point for this, when i meant to hit the quote button-sorry about that!

[thatjimguy]

Andy, I ask the following question with respect and consideration: I'm genuinely interested to know the

specific reasons why you're happier now that you "know the church is not true?" If you wouldn't mind,

would you kindly list at least 5 of the reasons why you're happier?

 

Not that I am leaving the church or anything but I want to side with this guy for a second because it seems to me some of you are a bit rough about his being happier out of the church. So I will list five things of why he might feel better outside of it,

 

1) It's a big move to leave the church. Even when I was considering hanging it up, it was a move that I took as seriously as getting Baptised in the first place. It probably was a big relief to finally make a desicion.

 

2) No more living a lie. I'll bet this is not something that just came suddenly. He lost his testimony over whatever issue over time and all the while probally still going to church and maybe even with callings. I don't know where he is, but if he is in Utah or Idaho or somewhere very LDS oriented, he can't get away from the society and always has to keep up a false front about his thoughts, not wanting to be judged or talked about behind closed doors. (I say this with the assupmtion that he is out of the church and not just in the closet about it)

 

3) Maybe repsonses to be so forward about being happy is a reaction to the LDS folklore reactions that someone who leaves the church is automatically supposed to be miserable.

 

4) Maybe things in his life are just simply going great for him.

 

In classes at BYU-I we have been talking all semester about looking at things from the other person's perspective. (and it's not just one class...there is an ongoing theme here this semester so it seems)

 

Instead of trying to disprove his happiness, I would rather try to disprove the ideas of why he left the church. (If i can)

 

So Andy, if you wanna shoot the main reason you left, I'd like to hear them.

[teddyaware]

Not that I am leaving the church or anything but I want to side with this guy for a second because it seems to me some of you are a bit rough about his being happier out of the church. So I will list five things of why he might feel better outside of it,

 

1) It's a big move to leave the church. Even when I was considering hanging it up, it was a move that I took as seriously as getting Baptised in the first place. It probably was a big relief to finally make a desicion.

 

2) No more living a lie. I'll bet this is not something that just came suddenly. He lost his testimony over whatever issue over time and all the while probally still going to church and maybe even with callings. I don't know where he is, but if he is in Utah or Idaho or somewhere very LDS oriented, he can't get away from the society and always has to keep up a false front about his thoughts, not wanting to be judged or talked about behind closed doors. (I say this with the assupmtion that he is out of the church and not just in the closet about it)

 

3) Maybe repsonses to be so forward about being happy is a reaction to the LDS folklore reactions that someone who leaves the church is automatically supposed to be miserable.

 

4) Maybe things in his life are just simply going great for him.

 

In classes at BYU-I we have been talking all semester about looking at things from the other person's perspective. (and it's not just one class...there is an ongoing theme here this semester so it seems)

 

Instead of trying to disprove his happiness, I would rather try to disprove the ideas of why he left the church. (If i can)

 

So Andy, if you wanna shoot the main reason you left, I'd like to hear them.

Thanks for this. Please understand that I'm one of those people possessed with an intense curiosity

about a lot of things, and I was just curious about Andy's state of mind.

My whistling past the graveyard comment was made as a consequence of observing that it seems Andy spends

much time on this site, and because of the oft-heard comment that folks who leave the Church just can't seem to

leave it alone. So if someone is genuinely happy about leaving the Church, why would he or she spend so

much time on a site like this one, where Mormons and discussions of things Mormon are everywhere to be found? Why not just move on with your life and be happy to get away from all the "stuff" that made you so miserable? It's hard to be truly happy if you're constantly haunted by the "ghosts" of an unhappy past.

Edited December 10, 2013 by teddyaware

[thatjimguy]

Thanks for this. Please understand that I'm one of those people possessed with an intense curiosity

about a lot of things, and I was just curious about Andy's state of mind.

My whistling past the graveyard comment was made as a consequence of observing that it seems Andy spends

much time on this site, and because of the oft-heard comment that folks who leave the Church just can't seem to

leave it alone. So if someone is genuinely happy about leaving the Church, why would he or she spend so

much time on a site like this one, where Mormons and discussions of things Mormon are everywhere to be found? Why not just move on with your life and be happy to get away from all the "stuff" that made you so miserable? It's hard to be truly happy if you're constantly haunted by the "ghosts" of an unhappy past.

I think a lot of it comes from warning others about what they perceive to be dangers.

 

For instance, if you get food poisoning from a resturant, do you tell your friends or anyone that will listen? Of course. Some of the motivation is based off of venting and some of it based off of wanting to warn others.

 

And when it comes to some that feel betrayed, which is a number fo people due to church history and the internet, some of it may be just simple lashing back.

 

I can agree with the ghosts analogy, but we all can understand how hard it is to let go and forgive those that hurt us in our lives, I assume this is much like that.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

to each their own. i went from "i hope the church is true" to "i know the church is not true"

 

and i've never been happier. my life has never been better.

Saying you know means every fact is in and word spoken is a lie, by every Prophet or Apostle from the being. You're "knowing" is based on faith if anything I said about facts and comments is you're position.