Right-Wing Mormon Becomes Evangelical

[Calm]

 I was told once I have no friend here, it is not true but it was meant to hurt because the person disagreed with me. 

How absolutely bizarre!  Whoever said that was not only twisted, but totally wrong.  How in the world did he think that such would be seen as the least bit credible!  (few things deserve exclamation points on the board, this one deserves way too many, I am really shocked that someone had the nerve to say this and if I had seen it and was a mod, would have banned him).

[thesometimesaint]

BCSpace is a case in point.

 

 

 

Stop the personal stuff.  To all:  If this thread becomes anymore political it will be closed.

 

Sorry I wasn't trying to be personal to anyone other than myself. I'm very good at what I do. But even I can't change anyone that doesn't want to. 

 

PS. I consider BCSpace a good friend and compatriot in arms with the Gospel.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

How absolutely bizarre!  Whoever said that was not only twisted, but totally wrong.  How in the world did he think that such would be seen as the least bit credible!  (few things deserve exclamation points on the board, this one deserves way too many, I am really shocked that someone had the nerve to say this and if I had seen it and was a mod, would have banned him).

I had 50+, but many have moved on, I thought about freezing my account when my repoints equaled 10% of my posts! but when I check the points go up so I repost, even though I don't get many posts a day. I thought about coming back with a different name, but a friend here said that might be a violation of the rules, so I would not do it. Integrity can be inconvenient at times; can't it?

[mercyngrace]

 

Such shifts from "conservative" to "liberal", or vice-versa, have more to do with emotion and psychological need than with substantive consideration of issues.

 

 

Robert, I disagree with your conclusion here.

 

Radical ideological shifts also happen when we have an encounter with God. See Saul of Tarsus. 

[halconero]

I don't think so.  My own father went from a 1960's UC Berkeley Leftist to a staunch Conservative once he got out into the business world and began to understand economics.  LDS doctrine played a role too because while he sympathized with some of the Left's issues in his college days, he ultimately couldn't reconcile the Left's positions with LDS doctrine which btw, no one can do and still honestly claim to accept critical LDS doctrines.  I was close to my father and had many deep and thoughtful conversations on these issues and I guarantee his change was the result of long substantive consideration.  But so what if it happens quickly?  Why cannot someone see the truth instantly and change without being accused of not having given it substantive consideration?  Sometimes, it all leads up to where it takes just one massive realization and things fall into place.

 

With Wimmer, my own judgement of course is that going from LDS to Evangelical is surely a step backwards as the LDS Church has an absolute lock on consistent Biblical interpretation and doctrinally is the pinnacle of Christianity.  There is no reason why he could not "help children" and still be a true Latter-day Saint.

 

 

 

Everyone, please understand that I'm making this post not to bring up politics, but the idea that we, as humans, try to adapt the Gospel to our own personal leanings. 

 

My dad grew up in Latin America and was heavily influenced by Liberation theology. The local Catholic priest had a painting of Karl Marx and Vladimir Lenin right next to one of Jesus casting the moneychangers out of the temple. Jesus was seen as a revolutionary figure, there to change the world order and erase class. He didn't come to bring peace to the world, but a sword, by which love, equality and freedom would be established.

 

While his political leanings have been more tempered as of late, I can remember going on walks with him while younger and hearing him elaborate on Marxist concepts and in the next breath give thanks for the Gospel of Jesus Christ. He saw the United Order as a God-revealed communism.

 

My point isn't to advocate that that is actually true. I'm not going to argue that on this thread, and I hope we can avoid that. My point is that my dad DID accept "critical LDS doctrines" such as agency, the ordinances, the nature of God, exaltation, etc, along with his own world view. 

 

Members in Canada often give thanks in their prayers for a strong government, and even thanks for socialized medicine. 

 

If we go even further back, the Bible is filled with examples of "active members" of diverse political leanings. Cornelius was the centurion of an autocratic government masquerading as an oligarchic republic, Joseph of Arimathea was part of a puppet-theocracy, members among the Jaredites advocated for a monarchy and weren't excommunicated for it, and it is possible that Simon the apostle was part of revolutionary group advocating the overthrow of the Roman occupation in Judea.

 

Yet, each of these demonstrate acceptance of critical doctrines of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Whether their politics were right or wrong, we find no justification for doubting the sincerity of their belief or the internalization of the beliefs and practices necessary for salvation.

 

It doesn't sound like this man became Evangelical because of his political views, but because of his study of theology. There are just as many left-wing evangelicals in places like Ecuador, Peru or Venezuela. In theology and belief they're very similar to American evangelicals, but far different in their political actions and words. 

[Damien the Leper]

Good grief, Halconero...I love to read your posts. I absolutely loved this post.

[thesometimesaint]

Everyone, please understand that I'm making this post not to bring up politics, but the idea that we, as humans, try to adapt the Gospel to our own personal leanings. 

 

My dad grew up in Latin America and was heavily influenced by Liberation theology. The local Catholic priest had a painting of Karl Marx and Vladimir Lenin right next to one of Jesus casting the moneychangers out of the temple. Jesus was seen as a revolutionary figure, there to change the world order and erase class. He didn't come to bring peace to the world, but a sword, by which love, equality and freedom would be established.

 

While his political leanings have been more tempered as of late, I can remember going on walks with him while younger and hearing him elaborate on Marxist concepts and in the next breath give thanks for the Gospel of Jesus Christ. He saw the United Order as a God-revealed communism.

 

My point isn't to advocate that that is actually true. I'm not going to argue that on this thread, and I hope we can avoid that. My point is that my dad DID accept "critical LDS doctrines" such as agency, the ordinances, the nature of God, exaltation, etc, along with his own world view. 

 

Members in Canada often give thanks in their prayers for a strong government, and even thanks for socialized medicine. 

 

If we go even further back, the Bible is filled with examples of "active members" of diverse political leanings. Cornelius was the centurion of an autocratic government masquerading as an oligarchic republic, Joseph of Arimathea was part of a puppet-theocracy, members among the Jaredites advocated for a monarchy and weren't excommunicated for it, it is possible that Simon the apostle was part of revolutionary group advocating the overthrow of the Roman occupation in Judea.

 

Yet, each of these demonstrate acceptance of critical doctrines of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Whether their politics were right or wrong, we find no justification for doubting the sincerity of their belief or the internalization of the beliefs and practices necessary for salvation.

 

It doesn't sound like this man became Evangelical because of his political views, but because of his study of theology. There are just as many left-wing evangelicals in places like Ecuador, Peru or Venezuela. In theology and belief they're very similar to American evangelicals, but far different in their political actions and words. 

 

Well said.

[halconero]

Thank you, guys!

[Vance]

Ok, so I may get thread banned for this, BUT

He saw the United Order as a God-revealed communism.

As opposed to man imposed communism. One voluntary and the other not. And that makes ALL the difference.

[thesometimesaint]

Ok, so I may get thread banned for this, BUT

As opposed to man imposed communism. One voluntary and the other not. And that makes ALL the difference.

 

Neither man imposed one is really voluntary.

[Vance]

Neither man imposed one is really voluntary.

????

That doesn't make sense.

[thesometimesaint]

Both are economic systems developed by men, and implimented by men. Both have substantial problems of using force.

[Stargazer]

I had 50+, but many have moved on, I thought about freezing my account when my repoints equaled 10% of my posts! but when I check the points go up so I repost, even though I don't get many posts a day. I thought about coming back with a different name, but a friend here said that might be a violation of the rules, so I would not do it. Integrity can be inconvenient at times; can't it?

Is "Limited" a life sentence here? Perhaps Pa Pa (and Tacenda as well) have served their time, and have redeemed their debt to society?

[Tacenda]

Is "Limited" a life sentence here? Perhaps Pa Pa (and Tacenda as well) have served their time, and have redeemed their debt to society?

Maybe Pa Pa more than me, I'm still repenting.    Pa Pa OTOH, doesn't deserve it, IMNSHO!  But thank you Stargazer, for the mention.   

 

There are too many derails to keep track of.  Thread closed.