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http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/politics/56982850-90/wimmer-love-rolly-utah.html.csp 

(I particularly enjoyed the public comments at the close of the article)

 

I have noticed this pattern before:

Right-wing, ultra-conservative Mormon becomes a leftist or apostatizes from the faith.

 

We more commonly think of leftist oriented Mormons leaving the faith, but there is a larger principle here, I think.  Radicals tend to shift from one extreme to the other.  Eric Hoffer explored this tendency in his The Passionate State of Mind, and The True Believer (which was Pres. Eisenhower's favorite book).

 

We see this in people like Ronald Reagan, who early on shifted from being a leftist to being a strong member of the right wing.

 

Such shifts from "conservative" to "liberal", or vice-versa, have more to do with emotion and psychological need than with substantive consideration of issues.

 

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Such shifts from "conservative" to "liberal", or vice-versa, have more to do with emotion and psychological need than with substantive consideration of issues.

 

I don't think so.  My own father went from a 1960's UC Berkeley Leftist to a staunch Conservative once he got out into the business world and began to understand economics.  LDS doctrine played a role too because while he sympathized with some of the Left's issues in his college days, he ultimately couldn't reconcile the Left's positions with LDS doctrine which btw, no one can do and still honestly claim to accept critical LDS doctrines.  I was close to my father and had many deep and thoughtful conversations on these issues and I guarantee his change was the result of long substantive consideration.  But so what if it happens quickly?  Why cannot someone see the truth instantly and change without being accused of not having given it substantive consideration?  Sometimes, it all leads up to where it takes just one massive realization and things fall into place.

 

With Wimmer, my own judgement of course is that going from LDS to Evangelical is surely a step backwards as the LDS Church has an absolute lock on consistent Biblical interpretation and doctrinally is the pinnacle of Christianity.  There is no reason why he could not "help children" and still be a true Latter-day Saint.

 

You are out of the thread for making political leanings a measure of doctrine.

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I have never heard of this fellow before, but it seems like he has found something that he is passionate about; good for him.  

 

Having been a student of religion for many years it is difficult for me to understand the change from an LDS position to an Evangelical, but to each his own. 

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I witnessed this type of shift when I was working at San Fran State Univ.... one of our Library Dept heads was very left leaning... socialist, labor union affiliated, etc etc.  So one year she and her partner took a trip to Russia to study labor relations and related issues.  She came home having done a 180 shift, stating that having viewed their govt and systems first hand, she became convinced their form of govt just couldn't work.  She still wanted to be socially active for the "people," but her perspective changed considerably.  While I wouldn't classify her as becoming strongly conservative, she shifted her thinking in numerous areas... 

 

GG

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Frm the Salt Lake Tribune article:

He ran an aggressive campaign for Congress and then castigated fellow Republican Steve Sandstrom after the latter supported Mia Love over Wimmer at the Utah GOP Convention.[\quote]

LoL. I'd support Mia Love over just about anyone else. Chill down Wimner and take your place in Mia Love's shadow. Oh, yeah, he did. :)

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...he ultimately couldn't reconcile the Left's positions with LDS doctrine which btw, no one can do and still honestly claim to accept critical LDS doctrines. 

 

Utter nonsense bordering on the ridiculous.

 

I've plenty of close friends who are ardent 'leftists' and faithful latter-day saints.

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LoL. I'd support Mia Love over just about anyone else. Chill down Wimner and take your place in Mia Love's shadow. Oh, yeah, he did. :)

 

Just no... :o

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Frm the Salt Lake Tribune article:

He ran an aggressive campaign for Congress and then castigated fellow Republican Steve Sandstrom after the latter supported Mia Love over Wimmer at the Utah GOP Convention.[\quote]

LoL. I'd support Mia Love over just about anyone else. Chill down Wimner and take your place in Mia Love's shadow. Oh, yeah, he did. :)

Mia Love? No me a no love Mia Love! ;)
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I don't think so.  My own father went from a 1960's UC Berkeley Leftist to a staunch Conservative once he got out into the business world and began to understand economics.  LDS doctrine played a role too because while he sympathized with some of the Left's issues in his college days, he ultimately couldn't reconcile the Left's positions with LDS doctrine which btw, no one can do and still honestly claim to accept critical LDS doctrines.

 

I'll make sure to talk to my bishop about that tomorrow. I'm sure he'd love to know that I'm in deep conflict over critical LDS doctrines and my moderately lefty self. Heaven help me, I'm on some shaky ground.

 

In other news, Saturday temple work is da bomb.

 

 

Robert, 

I find extreme views of any sort problematic...often it seems that those who do, when faced with contradictory information have a hard time integrating new sources. Often it's either consistently disregarded without much looking into the information, or looking into it can shake one's ideology.

 

With luv,

BD

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I witnessed this type of shift when I was working at San Fran State Univ.... one of our Library Dept heads was very left leaning... socialist, labor union affiliated, etc etc.  So one year she and her partner took a trip to Russia to study labor relations and related issues.  She came home having done a 180 shift, stating that having viewed their govt and systems first hand, she became convinced their form of govt just couldn't work.  She still wanted to be socially active for the "people," but her perspective changed considerably.  While I wouldn't classify her as becoming strongly conservative, she shifted her thinking in numerous areas... 

 

GG

Black Panther Minister of Information, Eldridge Cleaver had a similar experience while in Europe and North Africa.  He writes about that in Soul on Fire.  He even became LDS for a time.

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Utter nonsense bordering on the ridiculous.

 

I've plenty of close friends who are ardent 'leftists' and faithful latter-day saints.

My best friend is an ordinance worker in an LDS Temple and is a lifelong leftist and anti-war activist.  I am very proud to know that he was a freedom rider in the deep South during the Civil Rights movement of Dr. King.  When a prominent and elderly LDS member of African American background met my friend at a FAIR Conference and learned of his exploits, he was overcome with emotion and tears.  The Holy Spirit is not a political partisan.

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.......................................................

 

Robert, 

I find extreme views of any sort problematic...often it seems that those who do, when faced with contradictory information have a hard time integrating new sources. Often it's either consistently disregarded without much looking into the information, or looking into it can shake one's ideology.

 

With luv,

BD

Yes, BD, it is precisely the extremist from a very rigid background who seems to fold the quickest (like the unbending twig which snaps).  Parents need to raise their children to learn how to bend with the wind, while maintaining their integrity.  Parents need to model that behavior.

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My best friend is an ordinance worker in an LDS Temple and is a lifelong leftist and anti-war activist.  I am very proud to know that he was a freedom rider in the deep South during the Civil Rights movement of Dr. King.  When a prominent and elderly LDS member of African American background met my friend at a FAIR Conference and learned of his exploits, he was overcome with emotion and tears.  The Holy Spirit is not a political partisan.

Anti-war or doesn't like war?

You are correct though, you can be of whatever political persuasion and a faithful LDS member.

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Yes on paper, but what about in the open with FB, family and friends? :)

 

My fam mostly knows and they're largely extremely conservative or at least lean to the right. But we're not a quiet people anyways and don't like following silly rules like no politics at the dinner table ;). But frankly, no one really cares that much. Blood and love is far thicker than what I stamped on my voter's ballot and general social persuasion. But here's their words exactly from a political argument they roped me into that got heated and ended with a number of those (not my friends/relatives) going on a character assasination of me (they called me young, naive, and unknowledgeable/unwise):

 

 Mom: Well - I don't think I care for the criticism towards my daughter. She is hardly naïve.....[followed by a political rant]

 

Aunt: {to my mom}...sorry if our comments about [bD] being naive were offensive. You're right. [bD] is a very smart girl and a hard worker and besides [my cuz], she's the first to go to grad school (not counting in-laws). I'm very proud to call her my niece, even if we don't agree politically.

 

Mom: BD - just read your comment - love you too and can't wait to see you next month !!  (But I could still shoot ya for not voting for Romney - so you better watch out - I may just get ya with a rubber water hose or something ... Or at least a dang good squirt gun !! Ya better think it through again girly !! Especially in 2016 !!  Stay good !! 

 

And these two are about as republican, politically, as you're going to get....the sort where CTR could be talking easily about politics as well as Jesus.  Differences doesn't have to equal ostracizing behavior.

 

 

 

With luv,

BD

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http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/politics/56982850-90/wimmer-love-rolly-utah.html.csp

(I particularly enjoyed the public comments at the close of the article)

 

I have noticed this pattern before:

Right-wing, ultra-conservative Mormon becomes a leftist or apostatizes from the faith.

 

We more commonly think of leftist oriented Mormons leaving the faith, but there is a larger principle here, I think.  Radicals tend to shift from one extreme to the other.  Eric Hoffer explored this tendency in his The Passionate State of Mind, and The True Believer (which was Pres. Eisenhower's favorite book).

 

We see this in people like Ronald Reagan, who early on shifted from being a leftist to being a strong member of the right wing.

 

Such shifts from "conservative" to "liberal", or vice-versa, have more to do with emotion and psychological need than with substantive consideration of issues.

The few times I have sat down at a computer keyboard in a while for a post in almost 15 months. My posts are always on IPAD’s, as I can sit in an easy chair or in bed and prop up my knees in bed because of my back. But for this thread, I wanted to choose my words carefully to insure I do not violate the rules. There is a real danger of assigning labels…”right wing”, or “left wing”, as it relates to faith or righteousness. It is human nature or yielding to the “natural man” when we seek to put others in little boxes so we can understand them or in our minds to make sense of what we do not understand. When we use these labels for specific religions it is even worse. I know people who are very conservative who work in homeless shelters beside liberals. There have been times many of my Inspectors with both leanings who would inspect a home, find problems and knowing the person or persons could not make repairs, would buy materials, show up on a weekend and fix the problems. Liberal is not a bad word and conservative is not a bad word. When I saw the original OP, where the author (via the link) suggested that changes from “far right t to far left is based on emotion” (too paraphrase)…of course emotion is involved; emotion is not a bad thing. My problem is that is difficult not to be passionate or emotional when I feel strongly about something. It is that emotion and passion that would have me lay down my life for my family or anyone of a different mindset for my country. I would rather have those who disagree with me believe and be passionate about what they believe that to be completely detached from their feelings.

Sadly I have lost friends in Church and family for not taking unyielding positions on both sides of the spectrum of political thought. But this is the cost of being unwilling to label others so easily. People are so much more complicated than a label;  as such more colorful and interesting. The strange thing is the tread tile associated Mormon with conservative and Evangelical as liberal…this is dangerous and lacks depth. (Noting that Robert was referring to the article, not his opinion).

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BCSpace is a case in point.

 

 

 

Stop the personal stuff.  To all:  If this thread becomes anymore political it will be closed.

I see my advice had little effect. Brothers and Sisters there is more that unites us than divides us. Christ. Was conservative concerning sin and liberal concerning the poor. Within our leadership and Church policy it the same, because we are his, but Christ love ow what what most defining. As I tried to imply, emotion and passion does not mean we have to be rude. This is not directed at one person and certainly not you TSS, you just had the last post. Just hope as I said in my long winded post, I don't lose anymore friends. I was told once I have no friend here, it is not true but it was meant to hurt because the person disagreed with me. Why do we do these things...I don't know?
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