David T Posted September 16, 2013 Posted September 16, 2013 (edited) I love that Conan Doyle's Sherlock Holmes was a master of what he termed the Science of Deduction, yet he had no clue that the earth revolved around the sun. It was practically irrelevant knowledge to him, so he hadn't considered pondering it. But in his own focus of interest and study, he was, of course, a genius. Edited September 16, 2013 by David T 1
thesometimesaint Posted September 16, 2013 Posted September 16, 2013 (edited) Pa Pa: Only in the very broadest of sense. I know that you weren't trying to be combative. Edited September 16, 2013 by thesometimesaint
Calm Posted September 16, 2013 Posted September 16, 2013 (edited) Hawkin made a significant point, the pause after Hawkin spoke was an invitation to respond, and Dawkins said nothing. Just sparkles and music to cover up the silence. It would have been very interesting to have shown the look on Dawkins' face... Uhhh,, ahem.... yaba daba doo.....It could have been scripted that way. This does not appear to be in the least a spontaneous interview, but a planned documentary so why would he have been surprised if so? add-on: I see that David already drew attention to the dramatic nature of the pause.... Edited September 16, 2013 by calmoriah 1
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted September 17, 2013 Posted September 17, 2013 (edited) So we are all scientist to one degree or another. I have seven classes coming up before the end of the year where I will teach the science and code of electricity. Not sure how to define scientist, in some way were are all participants, my son computer science, my daughters and wife medical sciences. My family, wife, children and many grandchildren, family sciences. Which reminds me, I have a lot of Power Points to get done, first one on Health Care Facilities (Electrical aspects). Been in so many lately, I might be able to teach that as well. So my point was that Doctors of Medicine are Scientists. I wasn't trying to be combative.I have a fear, what were the great of science, the written word, theology before degrees were given in these fields of study. Early Prophets used to rail against the "so called learned" and that we should look to the Prophets and Apostles. I worry that now Church Schools give degrees in, Mormon Studies, and P.h.d's and to many listen to them as our new Theologians and old called on Sunday's only...edited a few words. Edited September 17, 2013 by Bill “Papa” Lee
Rivers Posted September 17, 2013 Posted September 17, 2013 I have a fear, what were the great of science, the written word, theology before degrees were given in these fields of study. Early Prophets used to rail against the "so called learned" and that we should look to the Prophets and Apostles. I worry that now Church Schools give degrees in, Mormon Studies, and P.h.d's and to many listen to them as our new Theologians and our called one not.All members of the church have special gifts and talents to contribute. I think the ability to do theology is among them.
thesometimesaint Posted September 17, 2013 Posted September 17, 2013 I have a fear, what were the great of science, the written word, theology before degrees were given in these fields of study. Early Prophets used to rail against the "so called learned" and that we should look to the Prophets and Apostles. I worry that now Church Schools give degrees in, Mormon Studies, and P.h.d's and to many listen to them as our new Theologians and our called one not. It is good to be learned. In fact we are commanded to be such, as long as we give heed to the advice of God through his servants the prophets. I believe we'll be OK.
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted September 17, 2013 Posted September 17, 2013 It is good to be learned. In fact we are commanded to be such, as long as we give heed to the advice of God through his servants the prophets. I believe we'll be OK.The words "it is good to be learned" (also says) "when men are learned they think they are wise and set at not the things of God". Hope I remembered it right...think it was Paul. I am OK with men learning all they can, I just worry when the degrees are in "Divinity" and the like.
thesometimesaint Posted September 17, 2013 Posted September 17, 2013 The words "it is good to be learned" (also says) "when men are learned they think they are wise and set at not the things of God". Hope I remembered it right...think it was Paul. I am OK with men learning all they can, I just worry when the degrees are in "Divinity" and the like. I don't believe that any college degree per say gives its owner more authority on a subject outside of his/her field of expertice. IE; So while my expertice is in Social Work, and I can speak authoritatively only on that subject, your expertice in electricity far far exceeds mine. All the rest is just our opinions on a varity of subjects.
Questing Beast Posted September 17, 2013 Posted September 17, 2013 It is all opinion. Informed opinion, but opinion inescapably. We don't know all there is know about anything....
thesometimesaint Posted September 17, 2013 Posted September 17, 2013 It is all opinion. Informed opinion, but opinion inescapably. We don't know all there is know about anything.... The more I know, the more I know I don't know.
cinepro Posted September 17, 2013 Posted September 17, 2013 (edited) It is good to be learned. In fact we are commanded to be such, as long as we give heed to the advice of God through his servants the prophets. I believe we'll be OK. I agree. Wait...."advice"?! Edited September 17, 2013 by cinepro
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted September 17, 2013 Posted September 17, 2013 The more I know, the more I know I don't know. Or, the more we know, the more there is to know.
thesometimesaint Posted September 17, 2013 Posted September 17, 2013 I agree. Wait...."advice"?! Neither God nor his prophets will force us to do anything. So we can either give heed to what they say or not. But there are consequences from both.
cinepro Posted September 17, 2013 Posted September 17, 2013 Neither God nor his prophets will force us to do anything. So we can either give heed to what they say or not. But there are consequences from both. That sounds good. I think if we can stop calling them "commandments" or "laws" and instead call it "advice", we could really revolutionize the way Church members understand all this "advice" we've been getting from our leaders.
thesometimesaint Posted September 17, 2013 Posted September 17, 2013 That sounds good. I think if we can stop calling them "commandments" or "laws" and instead call it "advice", we could really revolutionize the way Church members understand all this "advice" we've been getting from our leaders. Be careful there. Those same "commandments" are contradicted in some cases just a few verses over. Or would land you into more legal trouble than you want if applied today.
Bikeemikey Posted September 17, 2013 Posted September 17, 2013 (edited) I know precisely what he is saying, thankyouverymuch. Either you must believe in a higher intelligence, OR accept that the probability is so enormously against such a finely tuned earth, solar system, universe, that you must accept the concept of multi universes to overcome those huge, almost infinite numbers. Dawkins' silence shows that, as clever as he pretends to be, you just can't escape it. An atheist must talk about virtually infinite multiple UNIVERSES. Dawkins silence? That was an introductory piece ... That question was asked as a rhetorical device at the beginning of a broader conversation-episode. Are making a very subtle joke? Edited September 17, 2013 by Bikeemikey 2
cdowis Posted September 18, 2013 Posted September 18, 2013 (edited) That sounds good. I think if we can stop calling them "commandments" or "laws" and instead call it "advice", we could really revolutionize the way Church members understand all this "advice" we've been getting from our leaders. cinepro, Yet another great idea. Perhaps we can now call gravity "advice" rather than a law. Edited September 18, 2013 by cdowis 1
thesometimesaint Posted September 18, 2013 Posted September 18, 2013 cinepro, Yet another great idea. Perhaps we can now call gravity "advice" rather than a law. Gravity is a fact. The explanation of that fact is a theory.
Avatar4321 Posted September 18, 2013 Posted September 18, 2013 The more I know, the more I know I don't know. True wisdom comes in knowing that you know nothing. Everday I am realizing how little I know. Of course, I am not sure the True wisdom has come yet. 1
Rivers Posted September 18, 2013 Posted September 18, 2013 (edited) That sounds good. I think if we can stop calling them "commandments" or "laws" and instead call it "advice", we could really revolutionize the way Church members understand all this "advice" we've been getting from our leaders.Is it kind of like the pirate code? Edited September 18, 2013 by Rivers 1
thesometimesaint Posted September 18, 2013 Posted September 18, 2013 Exodus 20:13 Thou shall not kill. Deuteronomy 20:17 But thou shalt utterly destroy them; namely, the Hittites, and the Amorites, the Canaanites, and the Perizzites, the Hivites, and the Jebusites; as the LORD thy God hath commanded thee:
cdowis Posted September 18, 2013 Posted September 18, 2013 Gravity is a fact. The explanation of that fact is a theory. Well, many consider God's commandments are facts.
thesometimesaint Posted September 18, 2013 Posted September 18, 2013 Not facts. Even the positing of a God isn't a fact. It is a belief. Albeit one that I am comfortable with. Moreover when religionists make claims about the physical world/universe they had better be able to substantiate those claims from something other than their religion. Which would be a self referencial argument.IE; http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/09/18/creationist-nye-wrong-about-moonlight-because-beethoven-said-so/
Bill “Papa” Lee Posted September 18, 2013 Posted September 18, 2013 Gravity is a fact. The explanation of that fact is a theory.Unless you fall.
BCSpace Posted September 19, 2013 Posted September 19, 2013 (edited) A friend of mine stated that he has observed Russell Nelson being on an anti-science kick of late? Am I missing something or is his observation off? I'm just curious. He took a backhanded stab at Evolution in a recent Conference. He also was corrected by his junior companion on the subject during an interview: Different denominations deal differently with questions about life’s origins and development. Conservative denominations tend to have more trouble with Darwinian evolution. Does the church have an official position on this topic? Nelson: We believe that God is our creator and that he has created other forms of life. It’s interesting to me, drawing on my 40 years experience as a medical doctor, how similar those species are. We developed open-heart surgery, for example, experimenting on lower animals simply because the same creator made the human being. We owe a lot to those lower species. But to think that man evolved from one species to another is, to me, incomprehensible. Why is that? Nelson: Man has always been man. Dogs have always been dogs. Monkeys have always been monkeys. It’s just the way genetics works. Wickman: The Scripture describing the Lord as the creator of all of these things says very little about how it was done. I don’t know of anybody in the ranks of the First Presidency and the Twelve [Apostles] who has ever spent much time worrying about this matter of evolution. Nelson: We have this doctrine, recorded in the Doctrine and Covenants, Section 101: “When the Lord shall come again, he shall reveal all things, things which have passed, hidden things which no man knew, things of the earth by which it was made and the purpose and the end thereof, things most precious, things that are above, things that are beneath, things that are in the earth, upon the earth, and in heaven.” So as I close that quotation, I realize that there are just some things that we won’t know until that day. http://www.pewforum.org/2007/05/16/in-focus-mormonism-in-modern-america/ Notice Nelson's "Man has always been man. Dogs have always been dogs. Monkeys have always been monkeys." argument. It shows he knew very little, if anything, about Evolution at the time. Edited September 19, 2013 by BCSpace 1
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