Does Lds Doctrine Contradict The Bible?

[Scott Lloyd]

This thread is being started at the suggestion of Tacenda, but anyone may contribute to it.

On another thread, I contradicted her assertion that the doctrine of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints "clearly" contradicts the Bible.

What I have observed over the years when such an assertion is made is that what the commenter is really saying is this (or some variation thereof):

LDS doctrine contradicts (fill in the blank here*) of the Bible.

*Choose one or more:

1. my interpretation

2. my minister's interpretation

3. some career anti-Mormon's interpretation

4. someone else's ill-informed or ill thought-out interpretation

[Glenn101]

This thread is being started at the suggestion of Tacenda, but anyone may contribute to it.

On another thread, I contradicted her assertion that the doctrine of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints "clearly" contradicts the Bible.

What I have observed over the years when such an assertion is made is that what the commenter is really saying is this (or some variation thereof):

LDS doctrine contradicts (fill in the blank here*) of the Bible.

*Choose one or more:

1. my interpretation

2. my minister's interpretation

3. some career anti-Mormon's interpretation

4. someone else's ill-informed or ill thought-out interpretation

What we really need is specific allegations in order to make any substantive comments. Of course, one can alsways point out cases where the Bible seems to contradict the Bible (Genesis 32:30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.; Exodus 33:11 And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend; Exodus 33:20 And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.)

Glenn

Edited June 15, 2013 by Glenn101

[Kenngo1969]

Tacenda's screen name speaks volumes. (I have to admit, while I have a reasonably broad vocabulary, to the best of my knowledge and recollection, I had never encountered the word before she chose it as her screen name, and I'd not realized what it meant before I looked it up at thefreedictionary.com just now: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/tacenda.) While, from my perspective, Tacenda's approach to gaining, regaining, or maintaining faith in the truth claims of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints seems to be a textbook example of Elder Holland's analogy of attempting to stuff a turkey through the beak, on several occasions she has caused me to reflect on precisely why I hold the convictions that I do. She has spurred me to make what, heretofore, have been implicit foundations of my faith explicit. If she doesn't think my faith to be naïve, I think it's pretty safe to say that the sources from whence she draws "her" concerns certainly would reach that conclusion.

In answer to your question, “Does LDS doctrine contradict the Bible?” (and I revere the Bible, by the way, and I reverence the considerable sacrifices so many made so that I could have the record of Christ’s Ministry [and that of His Apostles] in the Old World), my response would be, “If it does, so what?” As much as I revere the Holy Bible, those who contributed to it, those who compiled it, those who translated it, and so on, we don’t believe in a closed canon. We’re not limited to what dead prophets said on any given subject. We don’t believe revelation ceased with the death of the last of Christ’s original apostles. Revelation continues today—to modern prophets and apostles. The heavens, and the canon, are open. As Elder Holland also pointed out in his address of a few General Conferences ago, “We believe that God speaketh; not spake.” As the Lord reminds us in 2 Nephi 27:20, “I am able to do mine own work.”

We’re warned that the Earth will be teeming with Bibliolaters in the last days: “And because my words shall hiss forth—many of the Gentiles shall say: A Bible! A Bible! We have got a Bible, and there cannot be any more Bible” (2 Nephi 29:3). In verses 8 and 9, the Lord continues:

8 Wherefore murmur ye, because that ye shall receive more of my word? Know ye not that the testimony of two nations is a witness unto you that I am God, that I remember one nation like unto another? Wherefore, I speak the same words unto one nation like unto another. And when the two enations shall run together the testimony of the two nations shall run together also.

9 And I do this that I may prove unto many that I am the same yesterday, today, and forever; and that I speak forth my words according to mine own pleasure. And because that I have spoken one word ye need not suppose that I cannot speak another; for my work is not yet finished; neither shall it be until the end of man, neither from that time henceforth and forever.

I’d be interested to know how a Bible-only believer interprets Ezekiel 37:15-17. What is the Stick of Joseph, if not The Book of Mormon:

15 The word of the Lord came again unto me, saying,

16 Moreover, thou son of man, take thee one stick, and write upon it, For Judah, and for the children of Israel his companions: then take another stick, and dwrite upon it, For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel his companions:

17 And join them one to another into one stick; and they shall become one in thine hand.

Edited June 15, 2013 by Kenngo1969

[tagriffy]

Three really good answers to the question so far. Yes, it is a matter of interpretation. Yes, the Bible contradicts itself at places. And yes, so what if LDS doctrine contradicts the Bible? I'm going to add my own two cents anyway.

The Protestant canon that Mormonism adopted some 60+ books written by a number of different authors over a period of some 1500+ years. The authors were addressing audiences and circumstances that in many ways is far removed from our own. Of course there are inconsistencies and contradictions. That is exactly what we should expect. Add this to the specifically Mormon Scriptures that have their own inconsistencies and contradictions. As I said in another thread, viva la contradictions!

And exactly what is that thing we call LDS doctrine? It is an attempt to distill the major themes that emerge time and again from the mess. Does it contradict the Bible? Yeah, sure. Somewhere. It's bound to. Those are the cautions we need to keep us from being too sure of ourselves.

And by the way, since when was Mormonism a sola scriptura tradition anyway?

[Lightbearer]

This thread is being started at the suggestion of Tacenda, but anyone may contribute to it.

On another thread, I contradicted her assertion that the doctrine of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints "clearly" contradicts the Bible.

What I have observed over the years when such an assertion is made is that what the commenter is really saying is this (or some variation thereof):

LDS doctrine contradicts (fill in the blank here*) of the Bible.

*Choose one or more:

1. my interpretation

2. my minister's interpretation

3. some career anti-Mormon's interpretation

4. someone else's ill-informed or ill thought-out interpretation

As for the reason I would say her problem would possibly be all of the above. However, the Prophet Joseph Smith described our position relative to the Bible:

(Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith Section Three 1838-39, p.119)

"First--"Do you believe the Bible?"

If we do, we are the only people under heaven that does, for there are none of the religious sects of the day that do.

Second--"Wherein do you differ from other sects?"

In that we believe the Bible, and all other sects profess to believe their interpretations of the Bible, and their creeds."

In fact we are the only Church that knows the correct interpretation of the Bible because we have direct access to the source, revelation from God. As Peter said:

"Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost." (New Testament | 2 Peter 1:20-21)

It takes revelation to understand revelation, that is the problem with Bible bashing, they will never ever know the correct interpretation unless they receive it by revelation from the Holy Ghost.

[Mudcat]

I'll take (1) Scott.

If you can explain how the Bible agrees with Temple marriage, and it's compelling, I will likely interpret it otherwise.

Edited June 15, 2013 by Mudcat

[bubbachen]

As a convert to the LDS Church from born-again/Evangelical Christianity, let me say that the plainest, most honest and scholarly reading of the Bible supports LDS faith claims. I joined the church at age 23 solely because of my reading and re-reading of the New Testament. My conversion, however, did not come until I was 39-40 years old when I was finally able to read the Book of Mormon without eliciting internal anger. Now as I read through the Old Testament (while comparing the Septuagint and Masoretic texts), I find it quite obvious that LDS intepretations are bibically more sound than the protestant interpretations I've studied all these years. I still regularly listen to sermons from various pastors in the protestant world (Calvinists, Reformed, Pentacostal, "emergent church") and find that in some corners there is a growing theological shift towards LDS concepts. Modern biblical scholarship, based on textual analysis and archaeology, is forcing this transition.

The words in the Bible cannot be understood correctly without using "the lamp of obedience", which really just means without having the Holy Spirit teach you. Many protestant churches train their congregation to worship the letter, the words printed in the Bible, instead of worshiping our God to whom the Bible points. I wish you could see through this, Tacenda. Read the Bible in it's entirety without consulting anyone but God. Shut off your Internet. Let the LDS and anti books gather dust for a while. Go straight to the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit and read your Bible.

[BCSpace]

The Bible does not contradict LDS doctrine in any way.

[Robert F. Smith]

The Bible does not contradict LDS doctrine in any way.

In any way? A very brave statement indeed, BC. Is your assurance here based on sheer faith alone, or is it based on your having come to grips with a plethora of such claimed contradictions?

[cdowis]

The problem with this question is the assumption on which it is based.

Are you assuming that the Bible is inerrant.

Even more important, are you assuming that there is an inerrant interpretation of the Bible. Who exactly is the official interpreter of the Bible? If, for example, you use the example of "grace vs works", there is a centuries old debate among Christians over this one issue.

Anyway, the question posed in the OP just doesn't make any sense until you are able to answer these issues.

Edited June 15, 2013 by cdowis

[Five Solas]

LDS Doctrine contradict the Bible? Well, not when you’ve the freedom to make up your own definitions & language.

In How Wide the Divide? LDS co-author Dr. Stephen Robinson declared: “I would agree completely with Evangelicals about the eternality of God—defining eternity as…”

That last part’s the killer. You see, eternal doesn’t mean what the uninitiated think it does, if they were to look up the word in dictionary.com, for example. Robinson has

defined it to mean its very opposite: Windows of time, with beginning and end points. And with that little exercise, LDS and Biblical doctrines are set at harmony.

Page 90 of the book pretty well sums it up.

No contradictions, only misunderstandings. Repeat as necessary.

;0)

--Erik

[Tacenda]

Cut and pasted from PART of Bcuzbcuz's post # 21 in the thread "The Spectacles, The Stone, The Hat and The Book":

From Deutronomy:- Do not be tempted to worship or serve what you see in the sky - the sun, the moon, and the stars (4.19). "...man or woman has sinned against the Lord and broken his covenant ; by worshipping and serving other gods or the sun or the moon or the stars, contrary to the Lord's command." (17.2-3). Don't sacrifice your children in the fires on your alters> and don't let your people practice divination or look for omens or use spells or charms. and don't let them consult the spirits of the dead. The Lord your God hates people who these disgusting things. Be completely faithful to the Lord (18.10-13) From Leviticus:- Do not go for advice to people who consult the spirits of the dead.(l9*31). If anyone goes for advice to people who consult the spirits of the dead I will turn against him and will no longer consider him one of my People - 20.6. A prophet or an interpreter of dreams may promise a miracle, or a wonder, in order to lead you to worship and serve gods that you

have not worshipped before. EVEN IF WHAT HE PROMISES COMES TRUE, DO NOTPAY ANY ATTENTION TO HIM, THE LORD YOUR GOD IS USING HIM TO TEST YOU TO SEE IFYOU LOVE THE LORD WITH ALL YOUR HEART. Follow the Lord and fear him; obey him and keep his commands; worship him and be faithful to him-(13.1-4) Deutronomy. He practiced divination and magic and consulted fortune-tellers and mediums. He sinned greatly against the Lord and stirred up his anger. 2 Kings 21.6 and 2 Chronicles 33.6. Read also Samuel 28.3-25. From Isaiah:- But people will tell you to ask for messages from fortune-tellers and mediums, who chirp and mutter. They 'will say, "After all, people should ask for messages from spirits and consult the deadon behalf of the living." You are to answer theme "Don’t listen to mediums....

My comment in post #22: I guess this is why the anti mormon EV's are unrelenting in their going after the LDS to save them from hell. This is pretty thought provoking and keeps me on the fence. Or keeps me on a weight scale that can't tip in either direction, one side is the people, the missionaries especially have this thing, lately it's the sister missionaries. I have a niece on my husbands side that is incredible and her sister that went also, I read her blog and it's amazing how she's transformed. But then I have to read this that you noted in the bible. Is this all a test, did God make it so the LDS are such intelligent, funny, good people to see how well we adhere to the bible rather than the people? Because clearly some LDS doctrine seem to contradict it.

Scott's post in #23: LDS doctrine does not contradict the Bible at all, let alone "clearly" doing so.

My comment in post #25: "Clearly" as in the instance of bcuzbcuz's post, but there are other scriptures in the bible that tend to contradict like God being everlasting to everlasting, and God is spirit not flesh and bones, no marriage in heaven, no God before and no God after, in the bible it says God is not a man, Lucifer being a brother to Jesus verses Jesus as the creator of all things including Lucifer, if we are to have physical bodies before we are to become a God how did Jesus become a God without a body. These aren't contradictions?

***********************************

Scott, when I said "clearly" it was in the instance of using magic. Then I went on to say how the bible tends to contradict mormon doctrine and then you wanted me to search it out and not take the non LDS Christian view and stop there, which I tend to do, admittedly. So I rustled up a red letter bible I keep at my bedside that belonged to my mom's side of the family. I went to the bible index and looked up the subject and then looked up the scripture and context. As I was reading the bible (shocking even to myself) I ran across some things that I didn't mention in the post, so if you don't mind I'll include that also. P.S. I didn't cut/paste any of the scriptures below from the internet, read and typed while reading them.

1. Is God a man? Numbers 23:19 states "God is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

2. Do members of the church place Christ's atonement in the Garden or the Cross first? Corinthians 1:18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that parish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. (Note: It seems the Garden of Gethsemane takes precedence over the cross when I read the many talks from church leaders.)

3. Are you married in the hereafter? In Matthew Chapter 22 it talks of the question by the Sadducees in vs. 24-30 Saying, Master, Moses said, If a man die, having no children, his brother shall marry his wife, and raise up seed unto his brother. Now there were with us seven brethren; and the first, when he had married a wife, deceased, and, having no issue, left his wife unto his brother: Likewise the second also, and the third, unto the seventh. And last of all the woman died also. Therefore in the resurrection whose wife shall she be of the seven for they all had her. Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven. (Note: Wouldn't this solve the problem we're having in the polyandry/polygamy thread right there!)

4. No God before and no God after: Isaiah 44:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the Lord, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me.

5. Does God have flesh and bones? Jesus told the woman at the well in vs. 21 -26 Jesus saith unto her, Woman believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth. The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come he will tell us all things. Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.

Scott, I've held conversations with others on this board before on this subject, and I suspect I'll get the same answers as before, but I appreciate that you took the time and effort to post a new thread to discuss on. I've read the responses so far and appreciate what they had to offer and look forward to more. Thanks for the homework you gave and reading the bible in context. I said a little prayer that it might show me or you the way.

Edited June 15, 2013 by Tacenda

[volgadon]

LDS Doctrine contradict the Bible? Well, not when you’ve the freedom to make up your own definitions & language.

In How Wide the Divide? LDS co-author Dr. Stephen Robinson declared: “I would agree completely with Evangelicals about the eternality of God—defining eternity as…”

That last part’s the killer. You see, eternal doesn’t mean what the uninitiated think it does, if they were to look up the word in dictionary.com, for example. Robinson has

defined it to mean its very opposite: Windows of time, with beginning and end points. And with that little exercise, LDS and Biblical doctrines are set at harmony.

Page 90 of the book pretty well sums it up.

No contradictions, only misunderstandings. Repeat as necessary.

;0)

--Erik

As noted in the "Concise Hebrew and Aramaic Lexicon of the Old Testament," the word "olam" is usually translated as "eternity" or "eternal," but is not to be understood in the philosophical sense. It usually meant a long period of time, which is why from olam to olam is used in Psalm 90 instead of saying olam just the once. Even the theologically-loaded "International Standard Bible Encyclopedia" writes that the Hebrew Bible "has no special term for 'eternity' that can be contrasted with 'temporality.' The Hebrew word most often used to express 'eternity' is olam. It is the same word that expresses duration of time, and it designates 'eternity' only in such statement as 'from olam' and 'until olam' (Ps. 90:2). Its meaning also shifts from a quantitative/temporal sense of a long span of time to a qualitative sense conveying the idea of permanence or immutability (2 Sam. 23:5; Ps. 78:69). Use in this latter sense does not deny the essential temporal quality of all OT thought when olam is used. While this word can shift in meaning to the qualitative ideas of greatness, power or transcendence when refering to God, it must be noted that these are qualities of God and are not implied in olam itself."

Windows of time, with beginning and end points is not a bad definition at all, and solidly biblical.

[volgadon]

Tacenda, for every Numbers 23:19, you have an Exodus 15:3.

[Tacenda]

Tacenda's screen name speaks volumes. (I have to admit, while I have a reasonably broad vocabulary, to the best of my knowledge and recollection, I had never encountered the word before she chose it as her screen name, and I'd not realized what it meant before I looked it up at thefreedictionary.com just now: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/tacenda.) While, from my perspective, Tacenda's approach to gaining, regaining, or maintaining faith in the truth claims of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints seems to be a textbook example of Elder Holland's analogy of attempting to stuff a turkey through the beak, on several occasions she has caused me to reflect on precisely why I hold the convictions that I do. She has spurred me to make what, heretofore, have been implicit foundations of my faith explicit. If she doesn't think my faith to be naïve, I think it's pretty safe to say that the sources from whence she draws "her" concerns certainly would reach that conclusion.

In answer to your question, “Does LDS doctrine contradict the Bible?” (and I revere the Bible, by the way, and I reverence the considerable sacrifices so many made so that I could have the record of Christ’s Ministry [and that of His Apostles] in the Old World), my response would be, “If it does, so what?” As much as I revere the Holy Bible, those who contributed to it, those who compiled it, those who translated it, and so on, we don’t believe in a closed canon. We’re not limited to what dead prophets said on any given subject. We don’t believe revelation ceased with the death of the last of Christ’s original apostles. Revelation continues today—to modern prophets and apostles. The heavens, and the canon, are open. As Elder Holland also pointed out in his address of a few General Conferences ago, “We believe that God speaketh; not spake.” As the Lord reminds us in 2 Nephi 27:20, “I am able to do mine own work.”

We’re warned that the Earth will be teeming with Bibliolaters in the last days: “And because my words shall hiss forth—many of the Gentiles shall say: A Bible! A Bible! We have got a Bible, and there cannot be any more Bible” (2 Nephi 29:3). In verses 8 and 9, the Lord continues:

I’d be interested to know how a Bible-only believer interprets Ezekiel 37:15-17. What is the Stick of Joseph, if not The Book of Mormon:

Hi Kenngo, that is funny that you picked up on my screen name. I remember when I first started on this board they had a thread about how everyone got their screen names and I mentioned why I came up with mine, it was because of the part that Tacenda means "unspoken, silent" . That's how I've felt throughout my crisis. But through speaking on this board, I've been able to speak, thanks to the people on this board. And also, to what you said or my interpretation of what you said, that you dig deeper into your belief of the church when I say stupid things (my words) I'm glad it helped you.

Edited June 15, 2013 by Tacenda

[Deborah]

It was actually because I read the Bible that I wouldn't become an official member the Protestant church I had been attending. Their teachings about the Godhead just didn't sound right. And it is why when I heard the missionaries of the church I accepted it so easily. So no LDS doctrine does not contradict the Bible but LDS doctrine clarifies what is in the Bible.

[Calm]

most honest

Honesty when it comes to biblical interpretation is in the eye of the beholder.

[Tacenda]

It was actually because I read the Bible that I wouldn't become an official member the Protestant church I had been attending. Their teachings about the Godhead just didn't sound right. And it is why when I heard the missionaries of the church I accepted it so easily. So no LDS doctrine does not contradict the Bible but LDS doctrine clarifies what is in the Bible.

Deborah, sometimes I have a disadvantage, in my eyes, of being born in the covenant and raised LDS. I'm seeing for the first time the non LDS Christian view of scriptures vs. the LDS view of the scriptures. I was an Ensign reader basically, sad I know because my church encouraged over and over to read the scriptures, which I did as a family, very s-l-o-w-l-y. Now that I'm hearing of things in the bible that we don't believe as LDS, it makes me stop and think about what I believe or should believe, it's definitely a process.

I read a quote the other day that gave me peace, by Fiona Givens -- "The reason why the pathway to God is straight and narrow is because you are the only one on it. It's just you and God. But there are millions of paths."

[Tacenda]

http://www.whatthebi...troduction.html

This indepth website discusses what the bible actually says and doesn't say. It's not as cut and dry as I thought, especially when I read about marriage in heaven. I wonder who's behind it, maybe some on here can figure out where it came from, or it could be an answer to prayer. It will take awhile to get through it all but very interesting! ETA: Here's the newer version of the website. http://whatthebiblesays.info/marriage-in-heaven/

Edited June 15, 2013 by Tacenda

[Calm]

http://newchurchperspective.squarespace.com/chapmancast/understanding-the-bible-with-john-odhner.html

In this episode, Pearse interviews the Rev. John Odhner, host of WhatTheBibleSays.info, about the Old and New Testaments.

[Tacenda]

http://newchurchpers...ohn-odhner.html

In this episode, Pearse interviews the Rev. John Odhner, host of WhatTheBibleSays.info, about the Old and New Testaments.

Thanks Cal, that was quick!

This caught my eye, New Church Perspective (NCP) is a leading source of current and insightful Swedenborgian-influenced and New Christian exploration. It is a web based community that connects people from all over the world, fostering an expanding vision of the Lord and heaven and inspiring direct, individual connection with the Lord and His Word.

[williamsmith]

I can only give my experience and testimony.

I spent years in various mostly mainstream so-called orthodox religions, and also didn't attend them various periods as well.

I would read the Bible for myself while attending these religions. Because of being in so many, I began to notice things.

I noticed that every single one of these religions were missing and misinterpreting a great deal with what the Bible actually said.

Eventually I came upon the LDS Church, and amazing to my eyes, I saw a religion that fully and perfectly fit what the Bible actually said.

Not only that, but I one point I even left the Church and religion because of lack of interest and some problems I had developed with primarily church history. Eventually though, I became interested in knowing what was true again, and studied, comparing the religions again, and only ending up with the LDS Church as being the only thing that could be valid. I then studied the problems I had, and came to understand that I was simply ignorant, and had pre-judged the Church before I really understood the issues. I came back, because the Church was literally true.

So, does LDS Doctrine contradict the Bible? Absolutely not. It is the only religion that fully and accurately matches what the Bible states.

Seeming contradictions can be understood by the context of the verse, and other verses in the Bible which give the full truth of the issue.

Further, the LDS Church omits nothing doctrine or practice that other religions do. It is the only church that "translates correctly" the Bible.

[Tacenda]

I can only give my experience and testimony.

I spent years in various mostly mainstream so-called orthodox religions, and also didn't attend them various periods as well.

I would read the Bible for myself while attending these religions. Because of being in so many, I began to notice things.

I noticed that every single one of these religions were missing and misinterpreting a great deal with what the Bible actually said.

Eventually I came upon the LDS Church, and amazing to my eyes, I saw a religion that fully and perfectly fit what the Bible actually said.

Not only that, but I one point I even left the Church and religion because of lack of interest and some problems I had developed with primarily church history. Eventually though, I became interested in knowing what was true again, and studied, comparing the religions again, and only ending up with the LDS Church as being the only thing that could be valid. I then studied the problems I had, and came to understand that I was simply ignorant, and had pre-judged the Church before I really understood the issues. I came back, because the Church was literally true.

So, does LDS Doctrine contradict the Bible? Absolutely not. It is the only religion that fully and accurately matches what the Bible states.

Seeming contradictions can be understood by the context of the verse, and other verses in the Bible which give the full truth of the issue.

Further, the LDS Church omits nothing doctrine or practice that other religions do. It is the only church that "translates correctly" the Bible.

Very few if any are giving "for instances" of how the bible lines up with LDS doctrine. And no one addresses the contradictions I provided, this would help, I don't have the time or patience to read the whole bible in a short amount of time. I know it's the easy way out but do you mind sharing with me what shot out that the LDS have it right vs. the non LDS? I just need some more passages or scripture that might speak to me. Also the line in bold in your post, makes me want to ask if our church lines up better with the Old Testament. I've heard it said before that we do, and we don't go by the New Testament as much, some even say we as LDS, are in bondage. Yes I do listen to sermons from other faiths, and some LDS turned EV's. So that is why I'm messed up so much, if in fact I am.

Thanks for your story of when you lost faith in the church and pre judged it (like I have been doing), but later regained that faith. Sounds like your belief in the church is stronger than ever.

[Kenngo1969]

... what you said or my interpretation of what you said, that you dig deeper into your belief of the church when I say stupid things (my words) I'm glad it helped you.

As you say, "stupid things," those are your words. I don't think anything you've ever said is "stupid." Uninformed, perhaps? Not indicative of a question or a contradiction or a controversy when viewed in a different light, perhaps? Yes, but not "stupid." (Having said that, I do wish, for your sake, that you'd ask yourself, the next time [and each time] you encounter such a supposed question, contradiction, or controversy, whether you're heeding Elder Holland's words about not trying to stuff a turkey through the beak! ) For my part, do I have questions? Sure, I have questions: I don't know how any member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints could have even half of a reasonably-well-functioning brain and not have questions. I look forward, perhaps, to going to some interesting firesides on the other side, featuring the Brethren who've said many of the things I have questions about. But does that mean I want to trade the bounteous harvest of good fruit the Gospel has borne in my life for anything else? Not on your life! We're not as far apart as you might think. It simply seems to me that one of us (with absolutely no disrespect intended) says, "I want to believe the Gospel is true, but ..." and the other of us says, "I know the Gospel is true, therefore ..." Has the Gospel borne any good fruit in your life? I believe it has, or you wouldn't be here on this Board. I wish you well!

[BlueDreams]

Deborah, sometimes I have a disadvantage, in my eyes, of being born in the covenant and raised LDS.

I think it's what you make of it.....I was raised LDS as well (though not BIC). That hardly has to count as a disadvantage.

Now that I'm hearing of things in the bible that we don't believe as LDS, it makes me stop and think about what I believe or should believe, it's definitely a process.

There's simply no shortcut available that is as adequate as thoroughly studying it out yourself. Don't just hear....look...and not just at specific quotes, because there's plenty of quotes that seemingly contradict each other. Read it.

Yes, there are things that fit protestant interpretations. But there is plenty that fits an LDS one. The contradictions are mostly found by perspectives and interpretation. I've personally read the NT plenty...it does not contradict. In fact certain things (especially the godhead) seem more plain in the bible than in other places. Due to my perspective there's enough that I honestly couldn't see myself believing in many points from a protestant perspective (or certain ones, they're not always consistent). But if I'd only done it by what I heard, I'd probably be just as shifting in my persuasions as you are now.

With luv,

BD