Pres. Uchtdorf'S Priesthood Talk About Diversity

[SeekingUnderstanding]

The actual quote of course is not quite a beard request but still delights the soul:

http://www.lds.org/g...titles?lang=eng

Some will point out that we still require diversity within limits. But I much prefer this tone to the talk of a few years back that instructed us to take our appearance cue from the prophet.

Besides - I think this is about far more than dress and grooming. This is saying, be yourself. Celebrate differences. Bring both your character and personality to church with and don't try to pretend to be something you're not.

When I heard the talk, I thought of all the "I'm a Mormon" commercial spots featuring mainly people who don't fit the "typical" perceived norm.

[Damien the Leper]

Pres. Uchtdorf gave the best talks throughout conference. I can't wait to get my copy of the Ensign because I'm goint to cut them out and put them in my scriptures.

[CASteinman]

but really folks what did his talk mean in a Church which seeks to guide as to facial hair, number of piercingly, even the color of shirts and whether women wear dresses?

I think it meant that if we are not "one" we are not "His" and that we are to "love one another" and "cease to contend one with another; cease to speak evil one of another". In a Church composed of people from multiple nations and cultures, there are so many different perspectives that are not related to our salvation and exaltation that must be accommodated as we bring people in.

I think, perhaps a decade ago, one of the sisters gave a talk in General Conference about how we are a world wide Church with differences -- and similarities.

I do not think it was intended to say that the Church is changing standards.

[Stone holm]

If you happen to be religious in Denmark, your fellow students will bully you.

The fertility rate throughout Europe is so low that the entire Eurozone will be fully Islamic by 2100. Anyone for Sharia law?

By the way, what was Pres. Uchtdorf talking about anyway? Does anybody have a clue?

Actually, I have a friend who is convinced that Europe is on a major conservative march back to increased cultural based restrictions due to the increasing percentage of Muslims in the various countries, so they are aiming at repealing their liberal stances on drug usage, etc. and it is not inconceivable that they might eventually be subjected to Sharia law. I haven't been monitoring Europe enough to actually know what is happening over there except that the economic elites seem to be imposing austerity wherever they can -- but I don't think he was addressing that issue. I suspect in part it was aimed at racism here at home, as reports are that the attitudes towards hispanics in the former State of Deseret is now worse than it used to be for Africans. And don't CFR me on that it is strictly anecdotal from members we have out here who have family out there.

[CV75]

What is the consensus on where Pres. Uchtdorf meant to lead the Church on the subject of diversity. What did his remarks about non-homogenizing mean? Are we going to loosen up about beards? Be more European in our outlook? What was he getting at?

It seems to me the West African saints have made a deep impression upon our general authorities. In addition to three or four references in the last general Conference, they have been mentioned several times in half as many years by our visiting general authorities. They show what it means to thrive spiritually in an environment of cultural, social, and political upheaval, and in spite of traditions and customs (dowries were mentioned) that discourage righteousness.

We should not disregard what they have to offer because of their humble economic conditions or strange (yet gospel-congruent) customs and traditions. We can be receptive to and inspired by whatever good thing that is new to us to develop and use our talents to lift and strengthen others, including those that impress us in a positive way.

I think the message is, where one’s cultural, social, and political preferences have no negative moral bearing, let people be and be friendly with them, and where they have a positive moral bearing, to be humble and learn from them. Where they run counter to Gospel principles, be a kind and loving example.

I see little emphasis on “non-homogenizing” in his talk. I do not think his remarks on diversity were meant to undo any existing cultural mores that are not Gospel-friendly or that are Gospel-neutral. I think the beards (non-beards?) thing is way down on the list of priorities he was addressing, but I would err on the side of not letting a beard bother a disciple of Christ in his acting within one of the four titles the talk was about.

[Darren10]

By the way, what was Pres. Uchtdorf talking about anyway? Does anybody have a clue?

President Uchtdorf made excellent points about how just because one is different, Jesus Christ still accepts that individual and that individual still has eternal worth to Christ. He cautioned against judging others merely because they are different and do not conform to everything you deem necessary to conform to.

That's the best I can remember it. I felt Spirit strong during his talk despite arriving in the middle of it (my son and I were over an hour late ot the Priesthood session).

[Darren10]

I love how you've smushed several European stereotypes into one

I got skills. My main point was to react to a perceived notion that Europeans are somehow suporior or more Uchtdorf-like one to another than, perhaps, others, like, let's say, Americans.

Edited April 11, 2013 by Darren10

[Darren10]

I think this is the talk.

http://www.lds.org/general-conference/2013/04/four-titles?lang=eng

[cdowis]

Not long ago we had a recent convert post that members of the church were complaining because she wore a Jihab -- that it has some "religious" meaning. I told her to ask her friends what they would say to someone who wears a kilt.

Edited April 11, 2013 by cdowis

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Opposition to 60s anticomformists that sported the bearded and unkempt look.

Although the clean shaven look really became popular in the 50s due to all the returning GIs from WWII being used to grooming themselves that way because of army standards. Being clean shaven only became an army standard because of chemical warfare, a beard can prevent a gas mask from sealing properly.

We know fight wars with the looks of 60' rock bands.

[CASteinman]

Not long ago we had a recent convert post that members of the church were complaining because she wore a Jihab -- that it has some "religious" meaning. I told her to ask her friends what they would say to someone who wears a kilt.

I think that any sort of dress or garb that draws unusual attention to someone - that is extravagant or bizarre or out of the ordinary is probably not a good thing to wear to the Sacrament Meeting.

First of all, sometimes that sort of thing can be somewhat disrespectful in tone, of the purpose of the meeting. But secondly (and this is more a nod to the weakness of our fellow man) they can be distracting and annoying to others when our common purpose is the Sacrament and Ritual of our Lord's Supper.

[thesometimesaint]

We know fight wars with the looks of 60' rock bands.

Maybe the 1860's

[thesometimesaint]

I think that any sort of dress or garb that draws unusual attention to someone - that is extravagant or bizarre or out of the ordinary is probably not a good thing to wear to the Sacrament Meeting.

First of all, sometimes that sort of thing can be somewhat disrespectful in tone, of the purpose of the meeting. But secondly (and this is more a nod to the weakness of our fellow man) they can be distracting and annoying to others when our common purpose is the Sacrament and Ritual of our Lord's Supper.

It wouldn't bother me a bit. We should wear the best clothing we have. For men a modest suit , Kilt, Lava Lava, or your cleanest best pair of blue jeans. For women wear what you want as long as it is the best you have, and modest. I go to church for my benefit not to please others.

[Darren10]

Not long ago we had a recent convert post that members of the church were complaining because she wore a Jihab -- that it has some "religious" meaning. I told her to ask her friends what they would say to someone who wears a kilt.

Perfect example of Uchtdorf's point and good remark.

Edited April 11, 2013 by Darren10

[CASteinman]

I go to church for my benefit not to please others.

Uh uh. Selfishness is not quite the spirit that is hoped for, but perhaps over time other things may come.

The odd thing is, these are the sorts of things that the kids learn when they are young teenagers. Here we are as adults acting confused.

Edited April 11, 2013 by CASteinman

[Stone holm]

Not long ago we had a recent convert post that members of the church were complaining because she wore a Jihab -- that it has some "religious" meaning. I told her to ask her friends what they would say to someone who wears a kilt.

Kilt's are strictly cultural. The Jihab on the other hand is considered by most to have a religious significance, but I wouldn't have any objection to it, anymore than I would object to some converts still wanting to wear crosses. Although I understand that in France, which has a somewhat different notion of religious freedom than us they have either banned or considered banning Jihabs from public schools.

[Darren10]

Although I understand that in France, which has a somewhat different notion of religious freedom than us they have either banned or considered banning Jihabs from public schools.

So much for being like Europe.

[Nathair/|\]

Definitely to more beards, and some saunas too, please!

I tried to grow a prophet beard like Abraham in all the church paintings, It didn't turn out very well.

[Hamba Tuhan]

I think that's a fine beard. What do you think is wrong with it? It's definitely better than mine, which has no length, just volume -- like a face-and-neck afro.

[MormonMason]

Not long ago we had a recent convert post that members of the church were complaining because she wore a Jihab -- that it has some "religious" meaning. I told her to ask her friends what they would say to someone who wears a kilt.

Ahem...hijab.

[Sine Saw Square]

This thread brought up a good question that I still think hasn't been answered. What or who was President Uchtdorf's talk addressing exactly?

[canard78]

Disclaimer: I haven't heard nor read the whole talk, but I'll base my comment on the quote provided by canard78.

Reading this brought back to my mind an attitude which I find is dangerous in the Church. It is when members mistakenly believe that if they "feel" inspired by the Spirit for a particular matter, then they must be right all the way, and hence everybody else deviating from that course is necessarily and obviously not led by the Spirit, and therefore wrong (if not inspired by the devil himself!)

You see what I mean? A sort of pharisaic mindset.

I think Pres. Uchtdorf is doing the right thing by pointing out what members should really be looking for in other members, that is, what we share in common: "our testimony of the restored gospel and our commitment to keep God’s commandments."

First, I highly recommend the whole of it. It'll take about 10 mins.

Second, I agree with you but think it goes one step further. He says: " As disciples of Jesus Christ, we are united in our testimony of the restored gospel and our commitment to keep God’s commandments. But we are diverse in our cultural, social, and political preferences."

That would suggest that two Mormons in good standing can have different political or cultural values. Therefore, these are, I conclude, not matters of the spirit. I don't think God minds if we are left or right in our politics, a vegan, a hippy, an environmentalist, an NRA member, a stay at home for vacation person or explore the world traveller. These are all personal decisions and as long as we can be Christlike as we do them it's fine to do so.

It may be valid to seek some guidance and confirmation after studying it out in our own minds. But, our cultural/social/political values will constrain the studying out process. God is partly limited in the spiritual witness he can give us by the questions we study out ask and the questions we ask are defined by the social/cultural/political background we come from.

[canard78]

I got skills. My main point was to react to a perceived notion that Europeans are somehow suporior or more Uchtdorf-like one to another than, perhaps, others, like, let's say, Americans.

The sooner you accept that this is reality not a notion the sooner you'll realise the folly of that silly Independence Day celebration and come back, cap in hand to your, clearly superior, European masters

[canard78]

This thread brought up a good question that I still think hasn't been answered. What or who was President Uchtdorf's talk addressing exactly?

All of us. Be yourself and stop trying (or expecting others) to bend to some perception of a social, cultural, political norm.

I suppose some will also take his comments and grow a beard, wear trousers (as a Brit I hope everyone wears 'pants' to church already) etc. But I think that would be missing the macro point of the talk.

[canard78]

I tried to grow a prophet beard like Abraham in all the church paintings, It didn't turn out very well.

Nathair, that is simply outstanding. You big old grisly Celt! You're exactly who Elder Uchtdorf was talking about. I hope you went to church like that. It certainly looks like a proud Scot's Sunday best.