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Mormon Shakes It In Rio.


EllenMaksoud

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Well, it is right there for all to see on CNN; the woman who danced in a Carnival as part of a celebration in Rio?

I don't know what to think? What does her husband think? Does it matter that she is Mormon?

I like to belly dance but have not since I converted but I understand that there are Mormon women who do it recreationally in a city near me. Still, even this is nothing like standing on top of a very tall float, in very little of anything, and worrying that her family would be upset..

Some Mormon help me. I am confused.

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Well, it is right there for all to see on CNN; the woman who danced in a Carnival as part of a celebration in Rio?

I don't know what to think? What does her husband think? Does it matter that she is Mormon?

I like to belly dance but have not since I converted but I understand that there are Mormon women who do it recreationally in a city near me. Still, even this is nothing like standing on top of a very tall float, in very little of anything, and worrying that her family would be upset..

Some Mormon help me. I am confused.

I haven't seen the picture so I can't comment on her directly, but not all LDS have the same standards as the Church would like them to have.
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I haven't seen the picture so I can't comment on her directly, but not all LDS have the same standards as the Church would like them to have.

Oh, I don't condemn her at all. This is just an another aspect of Mormons I had not seen before. It is not her at all but what others have to say about her. If this sort of thing is actually part of the culture, and an accepted part of their life, it is just something else for us all to learn to understand. And the fact that other Muslims would understand this is everything but sanctimonious of those who love her.

Some day I expect to see Mormon Missionaries in Saudi Arabia, and I wonder what they will need to adjust to. Perhaps they will not need to wear Niqab. Perhaps only Hijab will be necessary? Maybe Sisters and Elders will get together to visit homes. Maybe the Sisters will meet the woman, and the Elders meet the Men?

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Ah Carnival..... I lost a number of investigators to Carnival while I was serving a mission in Brazil. One literally vanished while taking part in the festivities and others simply felt the sirens call too strongly to commit to a life of chastity. The church members in Brazil usually do a pretty good job of avoiding (as much as possible) the effects of the week long celebration. The young men and young women are usually taken on camping trips or something similar to get them away from the more raucous influences. I don't know any active Brazilian members that would feel comfortable dancing on the top of a Samba float in the costume shown in the cnn video (although I'm sure there are some who would). Notice the woman in question was from Oregon, and a recent transplant to Brazil. The members in Brazil do celebrate with their fellow country men, and will help decorate floats or participate by wearing other more traditional costumes, but they generally try to remain as modest as possible, but it is still left up to the individual.

Carnival in Brazil is quite amazing. Not all of the floats and costumes are immodest... just the ones that get the most attention.

- guerreiro9

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Ah Carnival..... I lost a number of investigators to Carnival while I was serving a mission in Brazil. One literally vanished while taking part in the festivities and others simply felt the sirens call too strongly to commit to a life of chastity. The church members in Brazil usually do a pretty good job of avoiding (as much as possible) the effects of the week long celebration. The young men and young women are usually taken on camping trips or something similar to get them away from the more raucous influences. I don't know any active Brazilian members that would feel comfortable dancing on the top of a Samba float in the costume shown in the cnn video (although I'm sure there are some who would). Notice the woman in question was from Oregon, and a recent transplant to Brazil. The members in Brazil do celebrate with their fellow country men, and will help decorate floats or participate by wearing other more traditional costumes, but they generally try to remain as modest as possible, but it is still left up to the individual.

Carnival in Brazil is quite amazing. Not all of the floats and costumes are immodest... just the ones that get the most attention.

- guerreiro9

Oh, thank you. I'm not going to criticisise the young woman. I just wondered how the general culture handled it.

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I haven't seen the picture so I can't comment on her directly, but not all LDS have the same standards as the Church would like them to have.

It's called agency... for good or bad...

GG

edit to add: How did CNN know she was LDS in the first place? Was she wearing a sign around her scantily clad neck? And did they bother to report, as Cal said, on the other faiths of participants?

Edited by Garden Girl
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I haven't seen the picture so I can't comment on her directly, but not all LDS have the same standards as the Church would like them to have.

Yep, some believing LDS women actually wear bikinis to the beach. Shudder. Here's the shocker, though: while the church may advise against it, there is no commandment prohibiting it. Search the scriptures, you won't find the first word prohibiting the public wearing of a bikini. And as I recall, Mother Eve and Father Adam were naked in the Garden of Eden and were not ashamed. Well, maybe they didn't know any better, but seriously, God didn't tell them to put those fig leaves on, they did it themselves. Although he did provide coats of skin to clothe them afterwards.

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Yep, some believing LDS women actually wear bikinis to the beach. Shudder. Here's the shocker, though: while the church may advise against it, there is no commandment prohibiting it. Search the scriptures, you won't find the first word prohibiting the public wearing of a bikini. And as I recall, Mother Eve and Father Adam were naked in the Garden of Eden and were not ashamed. Well, maybe they didn't know any better, but seriously, God didn't tell them to put those fig leaves on, they did it themselves. Although he did provide coats of skin to clothe them afterwards.

I'll tell you one thing, though, I wish bikinis had never been invented.

I was watching a video about a cruise ship, and as they were discussing how stable this particular ship was (so that the water in the pools was not sloshing around like crazy) they showed this five second segment of an absolutely beautiful young women climbing the ladder out of the pool. Of course she was wearing a more-or-less modest bikini (you know, the kind that leaves something at least to the imagination), but OMG she was drop dead gorgeous and had a really sweet face, too. I was ill-prepared for this, as my draw dropped to the floor, figuratively speaking.

My mission president once told me that we cannot keep stop the birds from flying above us in the sky, but we can definitely stop them from making nests in our hair. I am so glad my wife wasn't watching me at that particular moment as I chased the bird away from my head!

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Somehow I doubt Adam and Eve were the least bit concerned about looking sexually attractive to perfect strangers.

It is of course the woman's choice to wear whatever she wants. She also gets to deal with the consequences of her choices, including possibly contributing to placing temptations in others' paths.

I am not shocked or dismayed or anything like that. Probably mostly amused, but I think it is important to be realistic about the results of one's behaviour whatever that is in order to avoid doing harm to others, even if that harm is unintended.

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Somehow I doubt Adam and Eve were the least bit concerned about looking sexually attractive to perfect strangers.

It is of course the woman's choice to wear whatever she wants. She also gets to deal with the consequences of her choices, including possibly contributing to placing temptations in others' paths.

I am not shocked or dismayed or anything like that. Probably mostly amused, but I think it is important to be realistic about the results of one's behaviour whatever that is in order to avoid doing harm to others, even if that harm is unintended.

I'll never forget an incident in Jackson Hole while on vacation. My family attended a "wild west" shoot out. Right in the middle of it, 4 or 5 women ran through the scene, naked and streaking and then jumped into a pick up and sped away. My daughters were in tears and couldn't believe women would do that. It was so shocking to everyone there, but I was overwhelmed by my daughters reactions to it and felt bad that it occurred.
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Streaking was a big thing when I was in high school---kids were always bragging how they were going to streak this or that, few followed through, so I would have been laughing my head off.

Wonder how my kids would have reacted if they saw that.

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I'll never forget an incident in Jackson Hole while on vacation. My family attended a "wild west" shoot out. Right in the middle of it, 4 or 5 women ran through the scene, naked and streaking and then jumped into a pick up and sped away. My daughters were in tears and couldn't believe women would do that. It was so shocking to everyone there, but I was overwhelmed by my daughters reactions to it and felt bad that it occurred.

Perhaps your daughters benefited from the experience of the education given them in school and church? Be proud of them.

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I think it is part of the festival and culture . No big deal . If my wife or daughters felt comforable participating . I would support them .

No big no no here .

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Looking at the Book of Mormon, I almost get the impression that God cares more about the cost of our clothes and any pride we might have in comparing our clothes to others'.

But looking around the Church, and seeing what the youth are taught, I see that I am wrong and God really cares about whether a dress covers a girl's shoulders or not.

Edited by cinepro
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Wear the clothes appropriate for the activity.

I agree as long as the activity is obeying the commandment . if some dresses provacativly just to entice and suduce some one then no , it is wrong .

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I agree as long as the activity is obeying the commandment . if some dresses provacativly just to entice and suduce some one then no , it is wrong .

I dress pretty conservatively, by western standards, but I'm not willing to put what I wear to the taste preferences of someone else. When in Church meetings you'd be hard pressed to tell me from my Bishop by what we wear. However, Even wearing a burka can't prevent someone from being enticed.

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Looking at the Book of Mormon, I almost get the impression that God cares more about the cost of our clothes and any pride we might have in comparing our clothes to others'.

But looking around the Church, and seeing what the youth are taught, I see that I am wrong and God really cares about whether a dress covers a girl's shoulders or not.

I still find it interesting that the Zoramites, described by Alma as the most wicked people yet amongst the Nephites, were also the most scrupulous about their dress standards.

I agree with CS Lewis on this:

The Christian rule of chastity must not be confused with the social rule of 'modesty' (in one sense of that word); i.e. propriety, or decency. The social rule of propriety lays down how much of the human body should be displayed and what subjects can be referred to, and in what words, according to the customs of a given social circle. Thus, while the rule of chastity is the same for all Christians at all times, the rule of propriety changes. A girl in the Pacific islands wearing hardly any clothes and a Victorian lady completely covered in clothes might both be equally 'modest', proper, or decent, according to the standards of their own societies: and both, for all we could tell by their dress, might be equally chaste (or equally unchaste). Some of the language which chaste women used in Shakespeare's time would have been used in the nineteenth century only by a woman completely abandoned.

When people break the rule of propriety current in their own time and place, if they do so in order to excite lust in themselves or others, then they are offending against chastity. But if they break it through ignorance or carelessness they are guilty only of bad manners. When, as often happens, they break it defiantly in order to shock or embarrass others, they are not necessarily being unchaste, but they are being uncharitable: for it is uncharitable to take pleasure in making other people uncomfortable.

Men and women alike too often judge others based on the way they dress. Conservative women take pride in their own standard and look down on women who are "less modest." And on the other hand, women who come from more relaxed backgrounds sometimes judge their conservative counterparts as being legalistic.

I do not think that a very strict or fussy standard of propriety is any proof of chastity or any help to it, and I therefore regard the great relaxation and simplifying of the rule which has taken place in my own lifetime as a good thing. At its present stage, however, it has this inconvenience, that people of different ages and different types do not all acknowledge the same standard, and we hardly know where we are. While this confusion lasts I think that old, old-fashioned, people should be very careful not to assume that young or 'emancipated' people are corrupt whenever they are (by the old standard) improper; and, in return, that young people should not call their elders prudes or puritans because they do not easily adopt the new standard. A real desire to believe all the good you can of others and to make others as comfortable as you can will solve most of the problems.

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I dress pretty conservatively, by western standards, but I'm not willing to put what I wear to the taste preferences of someone else. When in Church meetings you'd be hard pressed to tell me from my Bishop by what we wear. However, Even wearing a burka can't prevent someone from being enticed.

While Muslim, I had an experience that increased my understanding of human sexuality. Several years ago, my SKYPE was set to allow anyone to call me. So, when I got on there, I always wore my hijab, never thinking that anyone would want anything else. One night, a man called me and I answered. He said his camera was not working but since I always used mine, he could see me.

As we talked, he repeatedly told me how beautiful I was and what a grand wife I would make. Later he told me that any wife of his would need to wear the Niqab (Similar to a Burqua) so the next day I sent for one, a Saudi Niqab. When we talked he kept asking about it and the night I got it, he asked me to put it on. For him I did so, and then he said that I looked like one of Muhammad's PBUH daughters, and I found this extremely flattering. Later, he asked me what I was wearing, and I said I was wearing Abaya. He then asked me to take that off, so my skirt and top were exposed.

As you might guess, it did not stop there but I am not talking about how far it went, but when I hung up for the night, I felt dirty. He had taken advantage of me by use of his wiles.

Since then, I have realized that no matter how little or how many clothes one wears, someone will think it is sexy. I think that the Niqab is fetishistic to certain Arabs. No matter how hard a woman tries to be chaste and pleasing to Heavenly Father, someone will see something unholy.

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While Muslim, I had an experience that increased my understanding of human sexuality. Several years ago, my SKYPE was set to allow anyone to call me. So, when I got on there, I always wore my hijab, never thinking that anyone would want anything else. One night, a man called me and I answered. He said his camera was not working but since I always used mine, he could see me.

As we talked, he repeatedly told me how beautiful I was and what a grand wife I would make. Later he told me that any wife of his would need to wear the Niqab (Similar to a Burqua) so the next day I sent for one, a Saudi Niqab. When we talked he kept asking about it and the night I got it, he asked me to put it on. For him I did so, and then he said that I looked like one of Muhammad's PBUH daughters, and I found this extremely flattering. Later, he asked me what I was wearing, and I said I was wearing Abaya. He then asked me to take that off, so my skirt and top were exposed.

As you might guess, it did not stop there but I am not talking about how far it went, but when I hung up for the night, I felt dirty. He had taken advantage of me by use of his wiles.

Since then, I have realized that no matter how little or how many clothes one wears, someone will think it is sexy. I think that the Niqab is fetishistic to certain Arabs. No matter how hard a woman tries to be chaste and pleasing to Heavenly Father, someone will see something unholy.

You were duped by a freak. So you have nothing to feel dirty about. It is he that needs serious repentance. I don't know enough about the Muslim religion to say what that would involve, but feel pretty sure that it would be necessary for a Muslim, as well as for a Christian. The Lord will bless you for your righteous desires and efforts. You learned through sad experience to Never put anything on the internet that you don't want public knowledge.

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You were duped by a freak. So you have nothing to feel dirty about. It is he that needs serious repentance. I don't know enough about the Muslim religion to say what that would involve, but feel pretty sure that it would be necessary for a Muslim, as well as for a Christian. The Lord will bless you for your righteous desires and efforts. You learned through sad experience to Never put anything on the internet that you don't want public knowledge.

Hello EllenM

Just keep doing the things you have been doing... and Believe Christ... that's different than believing in Him. Believe Him when he tells you that when you repent he will remember your sins no more... believe Him when he tells you that though your sins be as scarlet, they will be as white as snow... believe Him when he tells you though your sins be like crimson, they shall be as wool. (Isaiah 1:18)

I cling to that and other scriptures of love and assurance that when I repent the atonement covers me...

from the beach on a beautiful sunny afternoon... blue sky, beautiful white clouds....

GG

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You were duped by a freak. So you have nothing to feel dirty about. It is he that needs serious repentance. I don't know enough about the Muslim religion to say what that would involve, but feel pretty sure that it would be necessary for a Muslim, as well as for a Christian. The Lord will bless you for your righteous desires and efforts. You learned through sad experience to Never put anything on the internet that you don't want public knowledge.

Thank you. This was back in 2006. My life is new in Jesus Christ

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