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Question On Getting Help From The Ward


GingerRed

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Hey all.....

I really hate to bring this up cause its really embarrassing to admit.....and I know I'll be judged by some people here..but I just have a question....

Can you get help from the Bishop, financially...if you don't pay tithing...? I lost my job over a month ago, but I havent gone to the Bishop for any help yet as I am too humiliated and embarrassed to go to him if he's only going to say.....sorry since you dont pay tithing we cant do anything for you...so too bad if you starve or cant pay your bills or get thrown out of your house!

Ive been holding off telling him anything about whats been going on for this reason. ( I hate talking to ANY bishop about my personal life! I always keep my problems to myself! ) My home teachers and visiting teachers and RS pres all know....but no offers of assistance has been offered...like Bishops store house, etc.

So...any suggestions?

Thanks

Red

Edited by GingerRed
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Hey all.....

I really hate to bring this up cause its really embarrassing to admit.....and I know I'll be judged by some people here..but I just have a question....

Can you get help from the Bishop, financially...if you don't pay tithing...? I lost my job over a month ago, but I havent gone to the Bishop for any help yet as I am too humiliated and embarrassed to go to him if he's only going to say.....sorry since you dont pay tithing we cant do anything for you...so too bad if you starve or cant pay your bills or get thrown out of your house!

Ive been holding off telling him anything about whats been going on for this reason. ( I hate talking to ANY bishop about my personal life! I always keep my problems to myself! ) My home teachers and visiting teachers and RS pres all know....but no offers of assistance has been offered...like Bishops store house, etc.

So...any suggestions?

Thanks

Red

do it and don't feel bad whatsoever

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We simply don't know what your bishop will do. And you can't either until you ask. Yes, some bishops are reported to have said no when people are not full tithepayers. But then we will never know if those statements are accurate because the bishops can't (don't want to, don't have time, don't even know they are said to have) talk about it.

May I suggest you look at your heart and decide what you will say to your bishop if he asks you about tithing (and the other reasons you came to be where you are--- as he will want to solve the long term problem as well as any short term one).

Edited by rpn
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We simply don't know what your bishop will do. And you can't either until you ask. Yes, some bishops are reported to have said no when people are not full tithepayers. But then we will never know if those statements are accurate because the bishops can't (don't want to, don't have time, don't even know they are said to have) talk about it.

May I suggest you look at your heart and decide what you will say to your bishop if he asks you about tithing (and the other reasons you came to be where you are--- as he will want to solve the long term problem as well as any short term one).

I had a bad experience in doing this but it wasn't about getting help for me though

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I am a financial clerk and know that there are folks getting help who haven't been paying tithing. Obviously, since faith in the financial blessings of tithing is a pillar of our faith, the topic will most likely come up at some point, however, the first priority will be to help you get what you need. If you have no income then you owe no tithing. Since self reliance is also a tenet of the Church, you can expect to be asked about possible family resources and, if applicable to your area and schedule, if you can donate some time to the Church welfare system in some way to "compensate" for help received. (although not required).

When it comes down to the nitty gritty of filling out a food order, it will be the RS President who will do that with you, not the Bishop. He just okays it. Direct financial assistance has to come from the Bishop however, and is intended for immediate and short term needs. Housing, utilities, medical expenses etc are within the realm of possibility from fast offering donations. Basic food and household needs will come through the storehouse unless that isn't practical in your area.

Good luck. Having my calling has increased my testimony of the blessings of making and receiving support from the Church welfare system. It is why it is there and why thousands of people work every day to keep it operating and why millions donate to keep it funded.

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The church welfare system is there to help members of the church (and other non-members on occassion). There aren't any stipulations in the handbook that say people must be full tithe payers before they can receive assistance. It's really completely up to the bishop. Most Bishops seem willing to help out to sustain life, but not life-style. In other words, if you have just wandered onto hard times, and need a temporary hand to get back on your feet, I would think that is exactly what the welfare system is for. Bishops will ask some hard questions as the "Widows Son" said in the post above this. These are asked to ensure funds are utilized in appropriate ways.

I think if you go in with a humble heart and explain your situation, you Bishop will do what he thinks is best. Best of luck in getting back on your feet.

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Thank you for all the comments so far....I feel a little bit better about it.

I have enough money to get through Jan , its Feb I'm worried about!! I was given some severance pay, I had 31 hrs of vacation pay they let me have and gave me the Christmas bonus I would have gotten. I lost my job though no fault of my own...I was taken aside by the supervisors, and told they had to make some changes and they had to let me go! just like that!! No warning, no nothing I was completely blindsided!! A month before this in a staff meeting we were told we were merging with another company. So theres NO doubt in my mind that was the reason, even though they wont admit it.! I worked there almost 9 years!! I found out through my coworkers I was replaced by a YOUNGER less experienced GUY ( who they can pay less) who is somehow related to or connected with someone in the 'other' company!! HOW unfair is that???????????????????

I HATE the fact that Utah is a stupid 'at will' state that allows anyone to be fired for any reason! I was told by the friends I have in other countries, that in their country, its ILLEGAL to fire someone with no good reason just because they want to save money by hiring someone for less pay!

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Don't put it off if you know there will be problems. The more time everyone has to prepare, the more likely your needs will be fully met with the less trouble and worry to all concerned. I hope you find a new job soon, you are seeking out all the government assistance programs available as well, right? You've been paying into the system for years for the very reason that if you get into trouble, support will be coming from it.

Good luck, I hope you find another, much better job as soon as possible. And get creative if you need to about starting up your own if that appeals to you. There are lots of possibilities. My husband is a prof at UVU and teaches entrepreneurship and in one class has his students start their own businesses. Some have used that business to go on and get quite wealthy, others have used it for some extra cash while going to school. There have been a lot of great ideas that are very simple to get going, you just have to just use your eyes to see a need, to see your resources that might fill that need and then think of how your own abilities can make it work. If you want more info on how to go about starting your own business, just PM me and I will hook you up with someone who can give you more info.

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I am not part of the LDS Church however as Christians we are not called to judge one another (encourage yes). We all fall short in this life and we all hit times where we need each other and there are times to reach out and ask for help. From the kindness I have seen reflected on the board I would hope you would expect the same kindness from your Bishop.

On a personal note, I have not always put God first in my tithes and this has been an area of spiritual growth for me. I have seen His blessings in my life in many ways when I have been more faithful and obedient. It has been His grace that rescues me when I have messed up and failed to obey, and that has matured me. He disciplines the ones he loves and I have been disciplined by Him for sure (as a consequences to my poor choices). My Church did not discipline me, God did though. I was too prideful to ask for help, so I took on two more jobs to dig myself out of debt. Now it feels GREAT to give God my offerings and tithes.

Be encouraged, you are loved! He will never leave or forsake you.

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The worst thing the Bishop should do is ask you to start paying whatever tithing you can, there should be no reason he won't help you. Also, and this isn't directed at you just a general comment about assistance, the Bishop should go over your finances and see if there are expenses you can cut (I.e. cable, or other expensive nonessentials) He is there to help.

Edited by Saints Alive
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If they replaced you with a younger person, and you are over 40, and that younger person has equal or less experience at what you do, then you may have a claim for age discrimination. They can be difficult to prove, but it may be worth looking to see if Utah has a commission that looks into this kind of thing.

If they replaced you because of your sex, then you may have a claim.

Also, you are likely eligible for unemployment compensation (and depending on your industry, maybe some retraining grants). When you go looking for jobs, be sure to talk with the state labor people about your options.

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If they replaced you with a younger person, and you are over 40, and that younger person has equal or less experience at what you do, then you may have a claim for age discrimination. They can be difficult to prove, but it may be worth looking to see if Utah has a commission that looks into this kind of thing.

If they replaced you because of your sex, then you may have a claim.

Also, you are likely eligible for unemployment compensation (and depending on your industry, maybe some retraining grants). When you go looking for jobs, be sure to talk with the state labor people about your options.

Like I said, Utah is an 'at will' state...so there's no recourse I can take. I am 55..my replacement is 26 year old male....but there are no laws in UT that would cover my situation.

Yes I immediately applied for unemployment. But I was denied benefits until they thought the severance would end, so I didn't start receiving checks until the 3rd week of Dec. And yes I took out the taxes. So the weekly amount I get is pretty much diddly squat....not even half of what I made.

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I'm jumping in late, so I apologise if I derail a bit. To me it sounds like they want to avoid paying retirement. I would check out the laws here in Utah and get some free legal advice somewhere. I think there are lawyers that offer it. Or not make you pay unless they win the case, if you sue. But it's a guess on my part and I'm reacting out of feeling that something is so wrong about your being replaced by a 26 old male.

Edited by Tacenda
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Generally speaking, is it more difficult to prove discrimination in a right to work state? Probably. Impossible? Not in my opinion. Since I am not an attorney, I cannot and will not give you any advice regarding the substance of your particular situation. It’s a long, long way from allegation to proof, but if I were in a similar situation to yours, I would wonder whether I have anything to lose by contacting the Utah Antidiscrimination & Labor Division, whose Web site is located here, last accessed today: http://www.laborcommission.utah.gov/divisions/AntidiscriminationAndLabor/index.html.

Keep in mind, too, that just because someone tells you (even if the person happens to be right, which may not be the case) that there’s nothing in Utah law which prohibits an employer from doing what s/he did, your employer is still subject to federal law, which may well prohibit what s/he did. See, e.g., here, last accessed today: http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/statutes/adea.cfm. (But, with regard to Utah law, see, e.g., here, last accessed today: http://www.le.utah.gov/code/TITLE34A/htm/34A05_010600.htm)

Any bishop who would let you starve or get thrown out of your house deserves to be released, then rapidly excommunicated! ;)

And, for what it’s worth, from Church Handbook of Instructions: Book 1, Section 5.2.3:

Providing welfare assistance should not be based on the activity level or worthiness of those who need it. . . . [The bishop] encourages less-active members who receive assistance to improve their spiritual well-being by attending church, praying, reading the scriptures, and increasing their activity in the Church.

In some situations, providing welfare assistance may be contingent on members fulfilling simple assignments from the bishop, such as doing assigned work, looking for a job, and eliminating unnecessary expenses. However, some members who are widowed, orphaned, elderly, or disabled may be unable to fulfill assignments. The bishop provides compassionate care to these members based on their situations and capabilities.

And be sure you know what your bishop is actually asking of you in return for the Church's resources. Do you know why bishops generally are released after serving approximately five years? Because it takes about that long to offend everyone in the ward! ;) And the same is true of stakes, stake presidents, and their approximately-ten-year terms! If your bishop asks you to pay tithing on what little money you do have coming in in return for receiving welfare assistance, while I cannot speak for anyone else, that seems reasonable to me.

And others have said this, but I’ll add my voice to the chorus. The longer you wait, the worse things will get and the more difficult problems will become to solve. It’s easier to lance a boil than it is to wait, let it fester and become infected, then have to have an arm amputated. There’s no shame in needing help; the only shame is in needing help and not getting it (and not doing so in a timely manner). I wish you well. :)

Edited by Kenngo1969
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Generally speaking, is it more difficult to prove discrimination in a right to work state? Probably. Impossible? Not in my opinion. Since I am not an attorney, I cannot and will not give you any advice regarding the substance of your particular situation. It’s a long, long way from allegation to proof, but if I were in a similar situation to yours, I would wonder whether I have anything to lose by contacting the Utah Antidiscrimination & Labor Division, whose Web site is located here, last accessed today: http://www.laborcommission.utah.gov/divisions/AntidiscriminationAndLabor/index.html.

Keep in mind, too, that just because someone tells you (even if the person happens to be right, which may not be the case) that there’s nothing in Utah law which prohibits an employer from doing what s/he did, your employer is still subject to federal law, which may well prohibit what s/he did. See, e.g., here, last accessed today: http://www.eeoc.gov/laws/statutes/adea.cfm. (But, with regard to Utah law, see, e.g., here, last accessed today: http://www.le.utah.gov/code/TITLE34A/htm/34A05_010600.htm)

Any bishop who would let you starve or get thrown out of your house deserves to be released, then rapidly excommunicated! ;)

And, for what it’s worth, from Church Handbook of Instructions: Book 1, Section 5.2.3:

And be sure you know what your bishop is actually asking of you in return for the Church's resources. Do you know why bishops generally are released after serving approximately five years? Because it takes about that long to offend everyone in the ward! ;) And the same is true of stakes, stake presidents, and their approximately-ten-year terms! If your bishop asks you to pay tithing on what little money you do have coming in in return for receiving welfare assistance, while I cannot speak for anyone else, that seems reasonable to me.

And others have said this, but I’ll add my voice to the chorus. The longer you wait, the worse things will get and the more difficult problems will become to solve. It’s easier to lance a boil than it is to wait, let it fester and become infected, then have to have an arm amputated. There’s no shame in needing help; the only shame is in needing help and not getting it (and not doing so in a timely manner). I wish you well. :)

Great advice for GingerRed. I'd like to add that when we go to the bishop for help, one should keep in mind that if they have been a tithe payer for x amount of years, imagine the balance if they had just put it into a savings account. It's there for our benefit when life deals us a bad hand. Besides the fact that paying tithing is suppose to bless us. Edited by Tacenda
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GingerRed, i know how difficult losing a job can be. My husband lost his job in 2008 and then lost a total of 3 more jobs between then and know from companies going out of business or downsizing.

It is stressful and in many ways, HORRIBLE. Don't be afraid to ask your bishop for help, emotional and financial. You'll likely be surprised at what a resource leaders and members in the ward can be.

Also, think about (and pray about if not already) paying your tithing on what little you have that is coming in. I know that our family was blessed immeasurably during the hardest years and i truly believe that it was because we always paid our tithing. Miralces occurred for my family when we tried to exercise faith in the Lord by putting our financial well being in His hands, and i know that the same things can happen for you. We still struggled and there was still stress and worry, but looking back, i am utterly amazed at all that happened with no plausible explanation for it.

Good luck and try not to lose hope. :)

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In my opinion, we ought to just follow Bluebell around the Web to immediately post, "What she said!" after she says it! ;)

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GingerRed, i know how difficult losing a job can be. My husband lost his job in 2008 and then lost a total of 3 more jobs between then and know from companies going out of business or downsizing.

It is stressful and in many ways, HORRIBLE. Don't be afraid to ask your bishop for help, emotional and financial. You'll likely be surprised at what a resource leaders and members in the ward can be.

Also, think about (and pray about if not already) paying your tithing on what little you have that is coming in. I know that our family was blessed immeasurably during the hardest years and i truly believe that it was because we always paid our tithing. Miralces occurred for my family when we tried to exercise faith in the Lord by putting our financial well being in His hands, and i know that the same things can happen for you. We still struggled and there was still stress and worry, but looking back, i am utterly amazed at all that happened with no plausible explanation for it.

Good luck and try not to lose hope. :)

The times I've had of attending welfare meetings, when finding solutions for members who were laid off from work, the people attending the meetings rallied around finding them work. Asking everyone if they knew of any job openings etc. It was amazing what would go on. Sometimes all it takes is someone to refer you to someone or someone to you. Edited by Tacenda
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Like I said, Utah is an 'at will' state...so there's no recourse I can take. I am 55..my replacement is 26 year old male....but there are no laws in UT that would cover my situation.

Yes I immediately applied for unemployment. But I was denied benefits until they thought the severance would end, so I didn't start receiving checks until the 3rd week of Dec. And yes I took out the taxes. So the weekly amount I get is pretty much diddly squat....not even half of what I made.

You may have recourse through federal law. If the company does business interstate federal discrimination laws are in force. Check with the EEOC (Equal Employment Opportunity Commission).

Never mind I see that Kenngo1969 has beat me to it.

Edited by ERayR
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In my opinion, we ought to just follow Bluebell around the Web to immediately post, "What she said!" after she says it! ;)

Now that would probably be scary! Sometimes people need to immediately post "go eat some chocolate or something!" after some of the stuff i say. :D

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Sometimes people go back to their employer, ask for a better severance package more months, including continuation of medical coverage, in exchange for waiving discrimination claims. And, as I said before, you should be eligible for unemployment. At least talking with an employment attorney is worth it. 30 minute consults may be free.

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Now that would probably be scary! Sometimes people need to immediately post "go eat some chocolate or something!" after some of the stuff i say. :D

You have chocolate?! :P

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