EllenMaksoud Posted January 3, 2013 Posted January 3, 2013 When I converted from Islam to the LDS, church, I was told that I should bring the things I had learned in my old religion to the LDS church and we could share them. I think that concept is an actual part of LDS doctrine.I hope that what I am about to relate does not sound too negative. I've been very ill and may still be somewhat crabby.When I first started attending church, I still wore my beloved Hijab and dressed with great modesty. Almost imediately, I had presure to meet with the missionaries, remove my Hijab and dress more in line with American customs. I was so grateful for the love of Heavenly Father that I somehow decided that I needed to look more American once again, not thinking through what his wishes might be.So, it being winter here, it has been around freezing with at times very strong Easterly winds. The other day, We all went for a hike in a very scenic area, so it meant our warmest clothing. So, for me it was warm leggings, long skirt, warm top and arctic coat. I do not own a warm hat so, without thinking I just put my Hijab on in the usual fashion.On the hike, someone who should know better asked me if I still had Muslim leanings! What does a Hijab have to do with what is in my Head?So, I am mad now! When I came to the church they said I could bring some of the things I liked. But, when I do, I get the most stupid, inane questions. Does anyone see the hipocrisy in this?
Popular Post halconero Posted January 3, 2013 Popular Post Posted January 3, 2013 I most definitely see the hypocrisy in this, and I sympathize with you.My parents, who are both converts, told me that when they were first baptized they only then began to realize that along with the doctrines of the Church came a distinct Church culture. My mum, having been a very strong evangelical, often wore a cross around, which is not a common cultural norm in the Church (well....the white, north american, english speaking part anyways....wards with people of other cultures that have had a historical relationship with Christianity often have people wearing crosses, posting pictures of the virgin Mary in their home, etc), and she got weird glances and questions.Often times members have trouble separating what is doctrine with what is culture. They confuse and mix the two (kinda like the Trinity (just kidding! That was just a jab to our trinitarian brothers and sisters here on the board!)), when really they should each have their own distinct place.Keep the hijab, I go to school in Toronto, Canada, and about 1/4 students are female muslims wearing the hijab. I think it's beautiful and really gives them a refined, ethereal look. If a member of the Church asks you can tell them that you wear it because you treasure what Islam taught you about modesty and the sanctity of womanhood, and that you still treasure those things as a member of Christ's Church.In short:Screw the members. Love them, but acknowledge that they have faults and that their LDS culture has faults (some major) as well. 5
CV75 Posted January 3, 2013 Posted January 3, 2013 Does anyone see the hipocrisy in this?It smacks more of ignorance than hypocrisy. If you see that someone requires a little education, go ahead and explain without waiting for him to ask. It is easy enough to explain that the hijab carries no conflicting religious meaning. 4
EllenMaksoud Posted January 3, 2013 Author Posted January 3, 2013 Thank you both. I had not expected such swift replies. Yes, Islam took me on a long pilgrimage that I think makes me a better Mormon. Surely, I got great healing when I came to the church, but if they had talked to me in my pre-Islamic days ... no they would not have talked to me because I was angry, rejected, and I'm not even saying what I did and wore. So, Islam prepared me and calmed me so that I would be open to the message of our church.
cdowis Posted January 3, 2013 Posted January 3, 2013 (edited) "Would you feel uncomfortable if you saw someone wearing a scottish kilt? For me, it's just a scarf." Edited January 3, 2013 by cdowis
Pandorian Posted January 3, 2013 Posted January 3, 2013 What cranks my hide is this BIG concern about men's facial hair. If you go into leadership, by golly, you need to shave off your beard. If you are an ordinance worker, you need to shave your beard off. YET...we have pictures of JESUS sporting a beard and mustache, and early church leaders up to the 50s sporting them. WHAT REVELATION has been received that says in order to be a leader AFTER the 50s you MUST be clean shaven. I don't have a beard and mustache myself, but when we were trying to convince my son he needed a hair cut, he's like..."Jesus has long hair. You said you want me to be like Jesus""Well son..um...ur...Because if you don't we are taking away your allowance!"I sometimes have this image of Jesus coming back to the temple and getting escorted immediately off to get trim.. 3
cdowis Posted January 3, 2013 Posted January 3, 2013 (edited) I think you would agree that the world has changed. We no longer wear long flowing robes, and the beard and long hair have become a symbol of rebellion. Beards in ancient times were a symbol of a boy's maturity growing into manhood -- he is old enough to sport a beard. But that has changed. Edited January 3, 2013 by cdowis
Freedom Posted January 3, 2013 Posted January 3, 2013 We are all entrenched in our own respective cultures. I had a hard time on my mission with the catholic symbols in the homes of latin american members but I got over it. We have a need to conform and to have others conform to the Utah ideal. This is common in all segments of society, it is the human condition.
canard78 Posted January 3, 2013 Posted January 3, 2013 I think you would agree that the world has changed. We no longer wear long flowing robes, and the beard and long hair have become a symbol of rebellion. Beards in ancient times were a symbol of a boy's maturity growing into manhood -- he is old enough to sport a beard. But that has changed.Nice to know we follow the cultural tendencies of the world I think a beard was a sign of rebellion 40 years ago, when our senior leases were younger. Today it's less so, perhaps culture will swing beards back to acceptability in another generation. Regarding the OP. Wear it whenever you like. We had a Nigerian couple who would frequently wear their national dress on a Sunday. It was, they said, their very best. We respected and supported this. Wear it and hand out cards with 1 Corinthians 11:6 on it
Nevo Posted January 3, 2013 Posted January 3, 2013 (edited) On the hike, someone who should know better asked me if I still had Muslim leanings! What does a Hijab have to do with what is in my Head? So, I am mad now! When I came to the church they said I could bring some of the things I liked. But, when I do, I get the most stupid, inane questions. Does anyone see the hipocrisy in this?No, I don't. I don't think your friend's question was unreasonable. Whether you like it or not, wearing a hijab identifies you to others as a Muslim or, at the very least, as someone who has adopted Muslim dress. If I went to a church activity wearing a Sikh turban and kirpan or a kippah (yarmulke) people would probably ask me "stupid, inane" questions too. If you want to wear a hijab that is fine by me, but expect it to raise eyebrows among fellow LDS. Edited January 3, 2013 by Nevo 1
EllenMaksoud Posted January 3, 2013 Author Posted January 3, 2013 "Would you feel uncomfortable if you saw someone wearing a scottish kilt? For me, it's just a scarf."I most certainly would not be uncomfortable and I won't even go into the tired question about what men wear under them. 1
The Nehor Posted January 3, 2013 Posted January 3, 2013 I think you would agree that the world has changed. We no longer wear long flowing robes, and the beard and long hair have become a symbol of rebellion. The 60's were half a century ago. Surviving hippies are senior citizens. Can we get over them now? 4
EllenMaksoud Posted January 3, 2013 Author Posted January 3, 2013 What cranks my hide is this BIG concern about men's facial hair. If you go into leadership, by golly, you need to shave off your beard. If you are an ordinance worker, you need to shave your beard off. YET...we have pictures of JESUS sporting a beard and mustache, and early church leaders up to the 50s sporting them. WHAT REVELATION has been received that says in order to be a leader AFTER the 50s you MUST be clean shaven. I don't have a beard and mustache myself, but when we were trying to convince my son he needed a hair cut, he's like..."Jesus has long hair. You said you want me to be like Jesus""Well son..um...ur...Because if you don't we are taking away your allowance!"I sometimes have this image of Jesus coming back to the temple and getting escorted immediately off to get trim..I just have to say it, sorry ... The whole church just got finished studying The Teachings of George Albert Smith and on the front cover of the book, guess what? He has a mustache and a goatee, not that I will ever have one mind you. 1
EllenMaksoud Posted January 3, 2013 Author Posted January 3, 2013 The 60's were half a century ago. Surviving hippies are senior citizens. Can we get over them now?LOL
The Nehor Posted January 3, 2013 Posted January 3, 2013 I just have to say it, sorry ... The whole church just got finished studying The Teachings of George Albert Smith and on the front cover of the book, guess what? He has a mustache and a goatee, not that I will ever have one mind you.This is all McKay's fault. Going with the Retro-Joseph Smith facial hair.
EllenMaksoud Posted January 3, 2013 Author Posted January 3, 2013 No, I don't. I don't think your friend's question was unreasonable. Whether you like it or not, wearing a hijab identifies you to others as a Muslim or, at the very least, as someone who has adopted Muslim dress. If I went to a church activity wearing a Sikh turban and kirpan or a kippah (yarmulke) people would probably ask me "stupid, inane" questions too. If you want to wear a hijab that is fine by me, but expect it to raise eyebrows among fellow LDS.Americans proudly display our ignorance about how the rest of the world lives. 1
Maidservant Posted January 3, 2013 Posted January 3, 2013 (edited) I most certainly would not be uncomfortable and I won't even go into the tired question about what men wear under them. He's offering this as a possible thing you could say to questioners . I think. Edited January 3, 2013 by Maidservant
EllenMaksoud Posted January 3, 2013 Author Posted January 3, 2013 This is all McKay's fault. Going with the Retro-Joseph Smith facial hair.Chortle, chortle, chortle !
Walden Posted January 3, 2013 Posted January 3, 2013 When I converted from Islam to the LDS, church, I was told that I should bring the things I had learned in my old religion to the LDS church and we could share them. I think that concept is an actual part of LDS doctrine.I hope that what I am about to relate does not sound too negative. I've been very ill and may still be somewhat crabby.When I first started attending church, I still wore my beloved Hijab and dressed with great modesty. Almost imediately, I had presure to meet with the missionaries, remove my Hijab and dress more in line with American customs. I was so grateful for the love of Heavenly Father that I somehow decided that I needed to look more American once again, not thinking through what his wishes might be.So, it being winter here, it has been around freezing with at times very strong Easterly winds. The other day, We all went for a hike in a very scenic area, so it meant our warmest clothing. So, for me it was warm leggings, long skirt, warm top and arctic coat. I do not own a warm hat so, without thinking I just put my Hijab on in the usual fashion.On the hike, someone who should know better asked me if I still had Muslim leanings! What does a Hijab have to do with what is in my Head?So, I am mad now! When I came to the church they said I could bring some of the things I liked. But, when I do, I get the most stupid, inane questions. Does anyone see the hipocrisy in this?Sorry you encountered such ignorance, but in the LDS faith, conformity is almost an underlying doctrine, especially including how one dresses. I remember the jabs and snickers and remarks if a male wore anything other than a white shirt to church, as if somehow, the pale blue hue of his dress shirt made him inferior or less righteous; same for beards & mustaches (which is almost laughably hypocritical, particularly if one looks at the pictures of the prophets of the church, many of whom sported some pretty righteous facial hair, and don't even get started on the fact that Christ is always depicted with a beard).Conformity is highly valued in the LDS religion. 2
CV75 Posted January 3, 2013 Posted January 3, 2013 perhaps culture will swing beards back to acceptability in another generation.For the time being, when the beard is a symbol, it is more a symbol of vanity, apathy, lack of self-care, entitlement for acceptance and protected feelings, individuality, or unique “specialness.” Fortunately nothing like that exists in today's world!
tyler90az Posted January 3, 2013 Posted January 3, 2013 Conformity is highly valued in the LDS religion.I still, rarely, cross my arms when praying. Conformity may be highly valued but is not required. Even then it is only highly valued by some members.
The Nehor Posted January 3, 2013 Posted January 3, 2013 Sorry you encountered such ignorance, but in the LDS faith, conformity is almost an underlying doctrine, especially including how one dresses. I remember the jabs and snickers and remarks if a male wore anything other than a white shirt to church, as if somehow, the pale blue hue of his dress shirt made him inferior or less righteous; same for beards & mustaches (which is almost laughably hypocritical, particularly if one looks at the pictures of the prophets of the church, many of whom sported some pretty righteous facial hair, and don't even get started on the fact that Christ is always depicted with a beard).Conformity is highly valued in the LDS religion.I wear a chainmail tie ever few months to shake things up. One of these days I need to wear my sith robe and keep my face hidden when I come to church to see how people react. 3
Mark Beesley Posted January 3, 2013 Posted January 3, 2013 As Latter-day Saints we often reply to certain criticism about Temple Symbolism that symbols have meaning for those who adopt them. So, when he have pentagrams on temples, or symbols of the sun or moon, or masonic symbols, we give little heed to those who criticize and try to impose other meaning for those symbols on us. We do this as a Church because of the courage born of conviction.It can be difficult to exhibit the same kind of courage on an individual level which is why there is so much conformity in the Church. It doesn't help that the leadership sometimes acts in a somewhat inconsistent manner by making ill-advised pronouncements about long hair and beards. Of course, we desire to be obedient, so we will often succumb to well-meaning but ultimately meaningless directives.I applaud any person who has the courage to hold fast to their own cultural traditions in the the face of unrelenting attempts to Americanize everyone and everything. Wear your hijab with pride and with the quiet confidence that unseen courage is the most courageous example you can set for others. And if anyone says anything, just smille and tell them it keeps your head warm . . . then offer to take them shopping for one. 2
CV75 Posted January 3, 2013 Posted January 3, 2013 Conformity is highly valued in the LDS religion.Rather, the ideal for Zion is to being people into egalitarian unity.
The Nehor Posted January 3, 2013 Posted January 3, 2013 For the time being, when the beard is a symbol, it is more a symbol of vanity, apathy, lack of self-care, entitlement for acceptance and protected feelings, individuality, or unique “specialness.” Fortunately nothing like that exists in today's world!You mean like how white shirts and ties are symbols of being amongst the corporate elite? 1
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