Burning In The Bosom

[inquiringmind]

Is the burning in the bosom a literal burning sensation in your chest?

[mfbukowski]

No, that would be heartburn or possibly angina.

It is a feeling in your "heart" and mind - not literally in your chest necessarily, but possibly- a kind of peaceful feeling. Really it can't be described any more than the good old taste of salt.

It is an understanding that "something" is happening- a physical reaction of warmth and peace, a feeling of love and softness and warmth, all not literally but almost. It is a sense of belonging and "at-home-ness" just a feeling of peace and calm and a feeling of "correctness"- that "yes, this is the way it is supposed to be".

Sometimes it can be more- an almost out of body kind of feeling but that is very special- or a one-ness with the universe, a tangible feeling of spiritual warmth filling one's soul- but those are maybe a couple in a lifetime if you are lucky.

Edited December 8, 2012 by mfbukowski

[CV75]

Is the burning in the bosom a literal burning sensation in your chest?

Yes, but accompanied by the spiritual manifestations mfb described above. Not all people experience the physical manifestation with the spiritual, but some do, and do so regularly.

[inquiringmind]

Yes, but accompanied by the spiritual manifestations mfb described above. Not all people experience the physical manifestation with the spiritual, but some do, and do so regularly.

Have you felt the physical manifestation?

[Kevin Christensen]

A wider survey of the way that prayers are answered should help. Here is something from my Model of Mormon Spiritual Experience essay:

Here are scriptures describing answer to prayer through the Spirit. Contexts usually refer to study, pondering, inquiry, musing, fasting, and reflecting on the subject of the prayer before and during the experience described or promised. You should study the scriptures in context. These verses should spur introspection in assessing personal experience, and in considering the claims of others. (Even skeptics should define what they do not believe in.) They are also a strong test for the claims of Joseph Smith. Consider them in light of my model and note how well they all hang together. The Spirit is a promised witness to the obedient (Acts 5:32; John 7:17, 8:31–32).

Answer to Prayer Emphasizing Thinking

1. Guides to truth (that is, to what is real; Jacob 4:13; John 16:13; Ephesians 5:9–10).

2. Brings Christ’s words to remembrance (John 14:26).

3. Eyes of understanding opened, that ye may know (Ephesians 1:16–19). “We began to have the scriptures laid open to our understandings, and the true meaning and intention . . . revealed to us in a manner we never could attain to previously, nor ever before thought of.” (Joseph Smith–History 1:74)

4. “It is calm and serene; . . . a person may profit by noticing the first intimation of the spirit of revelation: for instance when you feel pure intelligence flowing into you, it may give you sudden strokes of ideas.”[1]

5. Expands your mind (Alma 32:34).

6. Is this not real? What is true is discernible. “Whatsoever makes manifest is light”—truth is things as they really are (Alma 32:35; Jacob 4:13; Ephesians 5:13; D&C 52:14–19) “A pattern in all things” (D&C 52:14).

7. Persuades to believe in Christ (Moroni 7:17).

8. Judge righteously (D&C 11:12; Matthew 7; Luke 11:35).

9. Enlightens your mind (D&C 11:13–14; Alma 32:34).

10. You will know and bear record (Ether 4:11–15).

11. “Still small voice,” “which whispereth through and pierceth all things often making my bones to quake,” “voice in mind,” “as of one crying in the wilderness . . . because you cannot see him” (Enos 1:10; 1 Kings 16:13; Isaiah 30:21; D&C 85:6; 88:66; see also 3 Nephi 11:37).

12. I know that ye believe them . . . by the manifestation of the spirit, great is my joy. He that preacheth and he that receiveth, understand one another, and both are edified and rejoice together (Alma 7:17; D&C 50:10–25). It can be a shared experience that is witnessed and not self-induced.

13. Experience a change of perception. “God has created man with a mind capable of instruction, and a faculty which may be enlarged in proportion to the heed and diligence given to the light communicated from heaven to the intellect; and that the nearer a man approaches perfection, the clearer are his views, and the greater his enjoyments, till he has overcome the evils of his life and lost every desire for sin; and . . . arrives at that point of faith where he is wrapped in the power and glory of his Maker and is caught up to dwell with Him. . . . This is a station to which no man ever arrived in a moment: he must have been instructed . . . by proper degrees, until his mind is capable in some measure of comprehending the propriety, justice, equality, and consistency of the same.”[2]

Answer to Prayer Emphasizing Feeling

1. Heart burns within (Luke 24:32; Jeremiah 20:9;Psalms 39:2–3, 12; D&C 9).

2. Enlarges soul (Alma 32:27: Moroni 10:3–6); cf. Enos for enlargement of soul, first praying for self, then his people, then his enemies (Enos 1–17).

3. Word begins to be delicious to you (Alma 32:27); also tree of life (1 Nephi 8:10–16).

4. Word grows in you (Alma 32:28–43) “As that subject seems to occupy my mind, and press itself upon my feelings the strongest” (D&C 128:1). “Never did any passage of scripture come with more power to the heart of man than this did at this time to mine. It seemed to enter with great force into every feeling of my heart. I reflected upon it again and again” (Joseph Smith–History 1:12).

5. Invites to do good (Moroni 7:13); fruit of spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance (Galatians 5:22–25).

6. Invites to love God and to serve him (Moroni 7:13–19).

7. Peace to mind concerning the matter (D&C 6:14–15, 22–23).

8. Feel that it is right; stupor of thought if wrong (D&C 9:7–9).

9. Leads you to walk humbly (D&C 11:12).

10. Peace and power of spirit flow into you (D&C 111:.

11. Spirit teaches you that ye must pray (2 Nephi 32:8–9).

12. Spirit fills with joy (D&C 11:13–14; Mosiah 4:3)

13. Peace of conscience (Mosiah 4:3).

14. Consolation, comfort, peace (Helaman 3:5; John 14:26–27)

15. Guilty take truth hard, for it cuts to the center (Acts 2:37; 1 Nephi 16:2; 2 Nephi 32:2). Some harden hearts against it; others repent (see Alma 14, 15, and 36).

16. Experience a change of heart (Alma 5:26). “The spirit of the Lord . . . will whisper peace and joy to their souls; it will take malice, hatred, strife and all evil from their hearts, . . . and their whole desire will be to do good, bring forth righteousness, and build up the kingdom of God.”[3] “Law . . . written in hearts” (Jeremiah 31:33). “New heart, new spirit within you” (Ezekiel 11:19).

Other Ways Prayers Are Answered.

1. You receive help that you’ve prayed for (James 5:16–18). “The fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much” (James 5:16).

2. Numinous Experience: awe and reverence, mystery and wonder, fascination and dread, a sense of otherness, confrontation and encounter; becoming aware of dependence, finitude, limitation, and contingency.[4]

3. Mystical Experience; sense of the unity of all things, joy, harmony, serenity, peace, loss of ego. “Eight central qualities of the mystical or transcendent experience” are:[5]

§ The “ego quality.” During the experience, the person may lose the sense of self, and feel absorbed in to something greater. (cf. He that ascended up on high, as also he descended below all things, in that he comprehended all things, that he might be in all and through all things, the light of truth; D&C 88:6; And it came to pass that the Lord spake unto Enoch, and told Enoch all the doings of the children of men; wherefore Enoch knew, and looked upon their wickedness, and their misery, and wept and stretched forth his arms, and his heart swelled wide as eternity; and his bowels yearned; and all eternity shook. Moses 7:41);

§ The “unifying quality.” During the experience, the person may feel that “everything is one.” (cf. He comprehendeth all things, and all things are before him, and all things are round about him; and he is above all things, and in all things, and is through all things, and is round about all things; and all things are by him, and of him, even God, forever and ever. D&C 88:41),

§ The “inner and subjective quality.” The person may feel that things possess consciousness which we don’t usually regard as being conscious, like trees, or the earth itself. (cf. And it came to pass that Enoch looked upon the earth; and he heard a voice from the bowels thereof, saying: Wo, wo is me, the mother of men; I am pained, I am weary, because of the wickedness of my children. When shall I rest, and be cleansed from the filthiness which is gone forth out of me? When will my Creator sanctify me, that I may rest, and righteousness for a season abide upon my face? Moses 7:48)

§ The “temporal/spatial quality.” The person may experience time and space differently, and may even feel that the experience occurs outside the normal boundaries of space and time. (cf. And it came to pass, as the voice was still speaking, Moses cast his eyes and beheld the earth, yea, even all of it; and there was not a particle of it which he did not behold, discerning it by the spirit of God. And he beheld also the inhabitants thereof, and there was not a soul which he beheld not; and he discerned them by the Spirit of God; and their numbers were great, even numberless as the sand upon the sea shore. And he beheld many lands; and each land was called earth, and there were inhabitants on the face thereof. Moses 1:27–29. Compare also Black Elk’s vision.);

§ The “noetic quality.” The person may feel that the experience is the source of true knowledge. (cf. And now, behold, is your knowledge perfect? Yea, your knowledge is perfect in that thing, and your faith is dormant; and this because you know, for ye know that the word hath swelled your souls, and ye also know that it hath sprouted up, that your understanding doth begin to be enlightened, and your mind doth begin to expand. O then, is not this real? I say unto you, Yea, because it is light; and whatsoever is light, is good, because it is discernible, therefore ye must know that it is good; ...Alma 32:34-35 )

§ The “ineffable quality.” The experience may be impossible to express in normal language. (cf. And behold, the heavens were opened, and they were caught up into heaven, and saw and heard unspeakable things. And it was forbidden them that they should utter; neither was it given unto them power that they could utter the things which they saw and heard; And whether they were in the body or out of the body, they could not tell; for it did seem unto them like a transfiguration of them, that they were changed from this body of flesh into an immortal state, that they could behold the things of God. 3 Nephi 28:13-15. Which he commanded us we should not write while we were yet in the Spirit, and are not lawful for man to utter; Neither is man capable to make them known, for they are only to be seen and understood by the power of the Holy Spirit, which God bestows on those who love him, and purify themselves before him; D&C 76:116-117)

§ The “positive emotion quality.” (cf. He hath filled me with his love, even unto the consuming of my flesh. 2 Nephi 4:21. And oh, what joy, and what marvelous light I did behold; yea, my soul was filled with joy as exceeding as was my pain! Yea, I say unto you, my son, that there could be nothing so exquisite and so bitter as were my pains. Yea, and again I say unto you, my son, that on the other hand, there can be nothing so exquisite and sweet as was my joy. Alma 36:20-21).

§ The “sacred quality.” The experience may seem to be intrinsically sacred. (But now mine own eyes have beheld God; but not my natural, but my spiritual eyes, for my natural eyes could not have beheld; for I should have withered and died in his presence; but his glory was upon me; and I beheld his face, for I was transfigured before him. Moses 1:11).

4. Dreams and Visions; compare Nephi and Lehi, Daniel, Peter, and John, etc.

5. Personal Dialogue; you feel yourself addressed through events, and answer through your actions.[6]

[1] Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 151.

[2] Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, 151.

[3] Joseph Smith to Brigham Young in a dream; see S. Dilworth Young, “Gift of the Holy Ghost,” Improvement Era 71 (November 1968): 76. Also, Brigham Young, “ An Olive Leaf: Tell the People to Keep the Spirit” in Sunstone 97 December 1994,

[4] Barbour, Myths, Models, and Paradigms, 53–54; Smart, Worldviews, 62-72; cf. Moses 1; Joseph Smith–Testimony; Mosiah’s sermon; Alma’s conversion, etc.

[5] Mark E. Koltko, “Mysticism and Mormonism: An LDS Perspective on Transcendence and Higher Consciousness,” Sunstone 13/2 (April 1989): 14–19.

[6] Barbour, Myths, Models, and Paradigms, 54-55.

FWIW,

Kevin Christensen

Bethel Park, PA

[harfad]

Yes, but accompanied by the spiritual manifestations mfb described above. Not all people experience the physical manifestation with the spiritual, but some do, and do so regularly.

Elder Oaks apparently is someone who never has:

“But, behold, I say unto you, that

you must study it out in your mind;

then you must ask me if it be right, and if it is right I will cause that your bosom shall burn within you; therefore,

you shall feel that it is right”

(

D&C 9:7–8

; emphasis added).

This may be one of the most important and misunderstood teachings in all the Doctrine and Covenants. The teachings of the Spirit often come as feelings. That fact is of the utmost importance, yet some misunderstand what it means. I have met persons who told me they have never had a witness from the Holy Ghost because they have never felt their bosom “burn within” them.

What does a “burning in the bosom” mean? Does it need to be a feeling of caloric heat, like the burning produced by combustion? If that is the meaning, I have never had a burning in the bosom. Surely, the word “burning” in this scripture signifies a feeling of comfort and serenity. That is the witness many receive. That is the way revelation works.

Truly, the still, small voice is just that, “still” and “small.”

http://www.lds.org/e...spirit?lang=eng

[Garden Girl]

No, that would be heartburn or possibly angina.

It is a feeling in your "heart" and mind - not literally in your chest necessarily, but possibly- a kind of peaceful feeling. Really it can't be described any more than the good old taste of salt.

It is an understanding that "something" is happening- a physical reaction of warmth and peace, a feeling of love and softness and warmth, all not literally but almost. It is a sense of belonging and "at-home-ness" just a feeling of peace and calm and a feeling of "correctness"- that "yes, this is the way it is supposed to be".

Sometimes it can be more- an almost out of body kind of feeling but that is very special- or a one-ness with the universe, a tangible feeling of spiritual warmth filling one's soul- but those are maybe a couple in a lifetime if you are lucky.

Hello Inquiring....

I agree with what mfb has said, but also want to tell you that there have been only several times in my life, 2 or 3... that I can't actually describe but that were an intense and unforgettable "burning"...

The first was when I was a 17 year-old seminary student... we were studying the BoM and came to the end where Moroni offered his challenge (Mor 10:4).

I took that challenge and one day I knelt down in my room and prayed seriously and specifically to receive a confirmation of truth... as I prayed a warmth started in my navel and moved up through my chest, increasing in "burning" until my heart felt like it was literally pounding... a feeling of absolute joy filled me and brought tears to my eyes. It was like a crescendo building and then subsiding... it is my belief that Heavenly Father knew me so well... knew that I was going to make choices that would take me away from the Church for many years, so the witness of the Spirit I received that day was such that I could never then nor now forget the "burning in the bosom" in answer to my prayer. That feeling was what, through over 30 years of being an inactive member, kept my testimony alive in my core and finally enabled me to come back and grasp that iron rod again.

There has been another time or two these past 17 years that I've been reactivated when I felt the "burning in the bosom" but not to the extent of the first time as a 17 year old student.

I've had many other manifestations in line with mfb's description and always appreciate and give thanks for the wonderful calm, warm, assuredness I feel... even that is hard to describe... but it is unmistakeable and fills me with gratitude.

GG

Edited December 8, 2012 by Garden Girl

[DavidB]

as a daily sufferer from heartburn/acid reflux or what ever I suffer from....I can tell you it is night and day compared to "the burning in the bosom"

I was at peace with lots of things, literally at peace, when I finally received a witness.

Edited December 9, 2012 by DavidB

[mfbukowski]

Hello Inquiring....

I agree with what mfb has said, but also want to tell you that there have been only several times in my life, 2 or 3... that I can't actually describe but that were an intense and unforgettable "burning"...

The first was when I was a 17 year-old seminary student... we were studying the BoM and came to the end where Moroni offered his challenge (Mor 10:4).

I took that challenge and one day I knelt down in my room and prayed seriously and specifically to receive a confirmation of truth... as I prayed a warmth started in my navel and moved up through my chest, increasing in "burning" until my heart felt like it was literally pounding... a feeling of absolute joy filled me and brought tears to my eyes. It was like a crescendo building and then subsiding... it is my belief that Heavenly Father knew me so well... knew that I was going to make choices that would take me away from the Church for many years, so the witness of the Spirit I received that day was such that I could never then nor now forget the "burning in the bosom" in answer to my prayer. That feeling was what, through over 30 years of being an inactive member, kept my testimony alive in my core and finally enabled me to come back and grasp that iron rod again.

There has been another time or two these past 17 years that I've been reactivated when I felt the "burning in the bosom" but not to the extent of the first time as a 17 year old student.

I've had many other manifestations in line with mfb's description and always appreciate and give thanks for the wonderful calm, warm, assuredness I feel... even that is hard to describe... but it is unmistakeable and fills me with gratitude.

GG

I often wonder if it is good to talk about these things or not and can't decide. On one hand I think these descriptions give hope for those who have not experienced these things, but on the other, we have Monster's thread speaking about his feeling that he has never had such an experience and he now expresses a kind of sorrow I think that God has perhaps abandoned him. It's not that he quite said it that way, but I think that is the underlying feeling I got from his posts on that thread.

Everyone experiences these things differently and then describes them still in other ways.

I think some may get a very subtle feeling perhaps as Elder Oaks describes where others feel it more tangibly.

But for all there is a quiet certainty and peace that the course they have decided to set is "right". It's kind of like when you first find your spouse, and you are sitting on the couch together somewhere holding hands maybe, and you just feel that all is right with the world and you are where you are supposed to be. It's a feeling of being at home, in the right place and the right time, a feeling of belonging. I think that is the common denominator that all these experiences have.

That kind of peace and joy can be very intense or very quiet and subtle but I think indeed that is the common denominator.

[CV75]

Have you felt the physical manifestation?

Yes, I have. I experienced it years before coming across it in D&C 9:8, and before being taught by the missionaries or otherwise being led into any preconceived expectation about how answers to prayers about the Church or the Book of Mormon might be answered.

[CV75]

Elder Oaks apparently is someone who never has:

I do not disagree, nor with anything Elder Oaks said. But I experienced a burning in the bosom (several times), and I still describe it as just that. “For I had [a burning in the bosom]; I knew it, and I knew that God knew it, and I could not deny it, neither dared I do it; at least I knew that by so doing I would offend God, and come under condemnation.”

And I did not say I experienced the burning in the bosom as "caloric heat." It was more in the way of "blushing," which involves other physical components that might be misconstrued by some (but not me) as "caloric heat" -- there was no "fever" or heat above normal body temperature. Inasmuch as tears, trembling, tingling, etc. can be spiritually induced or accompany the revelatory experieince, so can this.

As you will note, and as I wrote above, my burning in the bosom was "accompanied by the spiritual manifestations mfb described above. Not all people experience the physical manifestation with the spiritual, but some do, and do so regularly."

[Storm Rider]

It seems like this idea of a burning in the bosom causes a high degree of consternation for some people. Kevin has provided a rather exhaustive list of scriptures that should prove to anyone the veracity of such feelings and how the scriptures encourage those who follow Christ to seek for it and recognize it. Luke 24:32 has always been a favorite of mine: 32: "And they said one to another, Did not our heart burn within us, while he talked with us by the way, and while he opened to us the scriptures?" Some search for a literal burning of their heart or bosom while others recognize it as an warm feeling of the heart. Some talk about it being a raging fire while others talk about the still small voice that was not found in the fire, the thunder, the lighting or any other significant event. Many of the Christian mystics describe similar manifestations. It has always puzzled me why so many Evangelicals seek to demean and criticize the LDS belief and teaching of trying to recognize the interaction of the Spirit with humanity. If you are looking for advice my humble and rather small contribution would be for you to not try so hard, but to relax and live a life that reflects a broken and contrite heart. Seek neither the burning bush or the still, small voice, but rather learn to listen. Stop talking so much in prayer and just listen for a time. You are wise to reflect on the ways of the Spirit and this is a great topic.

[why me]

The problem is that many who leave the faith refer to this burning sensation as a 'warm fuzzy'. And that the lds church is only a church of feelings or burnings of the bosom. I don't think that this is true. I believe that the lds church is a church where members have spiritual experiences whatever that may be. I don't think that the lds church is a feeling church but an experiencing church. And that makes all the difference. People experience the holy ghost and they also experience the spiritual.

In short, the lds have both human experiences as human beings and they experience spiritual experiences as spirit beings.

Edited December 9, 2012 by why me

[pogi]

The problem is that many who leave the faith refer to this burning sensation as a 'warm fuzzy'. And that the lds church is only a church of feelings or burnings of the bosom. I don't think that this is true. I believe that the lds church is a church where members have spiritual experiences whatever that may be. I don't think that the lds church is a feeling church but an experiencing church. And that makes all the difference. People experience the holy ghost and they also experience the spiritual.

In short, the lds have both human experiences as human beings and they experience spiritual experiences as spirit beings.

I have no doubt that the Spirit triggers physiologic emotions, causing some to cry, others to laugh, etc., but they are coupled with something deeper and difficult to express. I don't deny that we are a feeling church in part. The Spirit has triggered many feelings and emotions in me, that is all part of the spiritual experience. Spiritual experiences (in my experience) encompasses the whole soul - both body and spirit.

[CV75]

It seems like this idea of a burning in the bosom causes a high degree of consternation for some people.

I think part of this is that some view (or seek) the burning in the bosom almost as a sign or an indicator in and of itself, as if it is supposed to function like some kind of Ouija board.

[CV75]

In short, the lds have both human experiences as human beings and they experience spiritual experiences as spirit beings.

This reminds me of the scripture in D&C 93:33, "For man is spirit. The elements are eternal, and spirit [which is eternal also] and element, inseparably connected, receive a fulness of joy..." Even though we are mortal and "separably connected" our physical and spiritual attributes are supposed to work together.

[CV75]

I have no doubt that the Spirit triggers physiologic emotions, causing some to cry, others to laugh, etc., but they are coupled with something deeper and difficult to express. I don't deny that we are a feeling church in part. The Spirit has triggered many feelings and emotions in me, that is all part of the spiritual experience. Spiritual experiences (in my experience) encompasses the whole soul - both body and spirit.

I agree, and sometimes the Spirit speaks to me with no emotional / physiological response from me at all, but purely with ideas and instructions.

[mfbukowski]

I agree, and sometimes the Spirit speaks to me with no emotional / physiological response from me at all, but purely with ideas and instructions.

Likewise.

[why me]

I have no doubt that the Spirit triggers physiologic emotions, causing some to cry, others to laugh, etc., but they are coupled with something deeper and difficult to express. I don't deny that we are a feeling church in part. The Spirit has triggered many feelings and emotions in me, that is all part of the spiritual experience. Spiritual experiences (in my experience) encompasses the whole soul - both body and spirit.

I think that the problem comes from exmembers who downplay their spiritual experiences to one of pure feelings. Thus, we have the warm fuzzy remarks from some of them. They need to downplay such experiences to a feeling. Members of other churches can claim that we are a burning of a boson church, downplaying such a sensation as absurd.

However, I would prefer to say that we have a spiritual experience that goes beyond a feeling. For example, the witnesses did not have a feeling but an experience. Alma the younger did not have a feeling but an experience. And some of the women who accepted polygamy with Joseph Smith did not have a feeling about it but they had a spiritual experience which confirmed the truthfulness of the principle. These are just some examples.

[why me]

I agree, and sometimes the Spirit speaks to me with no emotional / physiological response from me at all, but purely with ideas and instructions.

Without the spiritual experience we would have no church. The church was built on spiritual experiences and not on spiritual feelings.

[pogi]

I think that the problem comes from exmembers who downplay their spiritual experiences to one of pure feelings. Thus, we have the warm fuzzy remarks from some of them. They need to downplay such experiences to a feeling. Members of other churches can claim that we are a burning of a boson church, downplaying such a sensation as absurd.

However, I would prefer to say that we have a spiritual experience that goes beyond a feeling. For example, the witnesses did not have a feeling but an experience. Alma the younger did not have a feeling but an experience. And some of the women who accepted polygamy with Joseph Smith did not have a feeling about it but they had a spiritual experience which confirmed the truthfulness of the principle. These are just some examples.

Let them downplay it. I'm not quite sure what you are getting at by "spiritual experience". Do you mean endowment of knowledge? In every experience that you have listed, there was no doubt feelings accompanying the experience. Alma the younger was very explicit about these feelings.

Without the spiritual experience we would have no church. The church was built on spiritual experiences and not on spiritual feelings.

You are right that the church was not built on feelings alone, but the feelings validate the "experience" and the "experience" validates the feelings. The feelings are what motivate me to seek further enlightenment. I want more of them, I want more of the fruit of the tree of life that fills a soul with love and joy. I don't think that the Church could stand without spiritual feelings, that's why we have them. Information and knowledge are simply cold hard facts without feelings tied to them.

[CV75]

Information and knowledge are simply cold hard facts without feelings tied to them.

I'm not so sure about the "just" part--as I mentioend above, aside from the burning in the bosom, I've also experienced promptings of the Spirit unaccompanied by a discernable physical or emotional component (unless we include firing neurons as such). Sometimes we are physically or emotionally "small" just as the stil, small voice is, but nonetheless spiritually powerful. Now once I follow a prompting, attendant physical, emotional and spiritual feelings follow. And my capacity for physical and emotional experience (and recognizing and appreciating them) increases as I become more sanctified by the companionship of the Holy Ghost.

Edited December 11, 2012 by CV75

[mfbukowski]

Let them downplay it. I'm not quite sure what you are getting at by "spiritual experience". ...

You are right that the church was not built on feelings alone, but the feelings validate the "experience" and the "experience" validates the feelings. The feelings are what motivate me to seek further enlightenment. I want more of them, I want more of the fruit of the tree of life that fills a soul with love and joy. I don't think that the Church could stand without spiritual feelings, that's why we have them. Information and knowledge are simply cold hard facts without feelings tied to them.

Very confusing. Sorry. You don't know what a spiritual experience is but it validates feelings. Honestly, I don't mean to be a pain but what are you talking about?

[pogi]

Very confusing. Sorry. You don't know what a spiritual experience is but it validates feelings. Honestly, I don't mean to be a pain but what are you talking about?

No worries. I know what a spiritual experience is for me, but I am not sure what he means by "spiritual experience". It seems as if he is trying to separate the feeling from the experience, to me and from what I read in scripture, it is all part of the experience.

If you were to strip feeling from the spiritual experience, all that would remain is information, like a voice telling me to pray. It wouldn't be until I act on that intuition that I experience the confirmation of feeling and deeper understanding. If I were to ignore that information or intuition, there would be no confirmation of feeling and deeper understanding, and I would question wether it was just my own thoughts. Feelings and knowledge are all part of the experience for me. I have never had a spiritual experience or truth revealed to me beyond a simple intuition that was not accompanied by a feeling of peace, acceptance, love, or joy as a validation.

[mfbukowski]

No worries. I know what a spiritual experience is for me, but I am not sure what he means by "spiritual experience". It seems as if he is trying to separate the feeling from the experience, to me and from what I read in scripture, it is all part of the experience.

If you were to strip feeling from the spiritual experience, all that would remain is information, like a voice telling me to pray. It wouldn't be until I act on that intuition that I experience the confirmation of feeling and deeper understanding. If I were to ignore that information or intuition, there would be no confirmation of feeling and deeper understanding, and I would question wether it was just my own thoughts. Feelings and knowledge are all part of the experience for me. I have never had a spiritual experience or truth revealed to me beyond a simple intuition that was not accompanied by a feeling of peace, acceptance, love, or joy as a validation.

OK now I totally agree- you cannot separate the feelings from the "experience" - it is one whole.

I think we are often on the same wavelength but when you say something like the "feelings validate the experience and the experience validates the feelings" it becomes very confusing to me. You are saying that there are two "things" - experience and feelings which somehow mutually verify eachother, which to me, makes no sense.

All you have to say as far as I see it, is that there is an experience. Period. That says it all. If you want it to "verify" something, what the experience "verifies" is the belief as I see it. Technically it "justifies" the belief, which is not exactly the same.

So you have a belief that the Book of Mormon is true, and then you have a spiritual experience which, within the context of asking God whether or not the book is true, justifies that belief in an Alma 32 sense. The belief becomes "sweet" to you.

You feel the "burning in the bosom" - further defined in this thread, and have a sense of peace in its truth, and it changes your life and the way you think and act. At least that is the way I see it.

Edited December 11, 2012 by mfbukowski