Does God Cause Natural Disasters?

[ERayR]

If people are more wicked now than in Bible/BoM times, then wouldn't God use more natural disasters to destroy the wicked? Do you think that people that are killed in modern diasters are more wicked than the ones that are not hurt?

It seems like it is easy to understand punishment through natural disasters in olden times. It seems impossible to understand that a modern disaster is ment to punish the wicked. Your thoughts?

I do not think people now are more wicked than in scriptural times. There are, however, more wicked people. I have no way of knowing who is wicked or more wicked or not wicked or why God chooses to protect some and not others.

I think that in some cases the consequences of a natural disaster has the effect of awakening them to their condition.

[pmccombs1]

If people are more wicked now than in Bible/BoM times, then wouldn't God use more natural disasters to destroy the wicked? Do you think that people that are killed in modern diasters are more wicked than the ones that are not hurt?

It seems like it is easy to understand punishment through natural disasters in olden times. It seems impossible to understand that a modern disaster is ment to punish the wicked. Your thoughts?

These biblical disasters were typically preceded by direct warning from God that if the people would not repent, they would be destroyed.

In recent times, the Lord has ceased to warn us through his prophet prior to disasters of "biblical" proportions. He has let nature run amok and do what it will.

[CV75]

If people are more wicked now than in Bible/BoM times, then wouldn't God use more natural disasters to destroy the wicked? Do you think that people that are killed in modern diasters are more wicked than the ones that are not hurt?

It seems like it is easy to understand punishment through natural disasters in olden times. It seems impossible to understand that a modern disaster is ment to punish the wicked. Your thoughts?

Scriptural pronouncements identify those disasters that were a result of God’s direct hand, and so of course these are all in the past. These do not seem to have come without warning or instruction to repent to otherwise prepare. So having access to the warning is generally an important factor. On a global scale, I’m sure the total number of these disasters was very small in comparison to the total number of destructive natural events occurring through the millennia covered in the scriptures.

So I think God-driven disasters today would follow the same pattern of prophetic warning and represent very few in numbers of actual punitive events relative to the total occurrences. While D&C provides general warnings of both punishments and simply what will be the conditions in the last days, I can’t think of any specific event that has been indentified by our prophets in the last 200 years as punishments of God. Maybe one just hasn’t come yet.

But another thing to consider for the latter days is that mortal infrastructures and institutions and the earth itself are aging, fallen entities, and also suffer due to the weakness and wickedness of imperfect human beings, which is not God’s doing (if you can’t find some scriptures on this I will look them up). In this case, disasters or our awareness of them are on the increase and serve as a sign or wake-up call to the frailties of and wickedness in the world (and therefore of the better choice to follow God), not God’s punishment of it.

But like any trial, God may permit, facilitate or cause them so that people can choose faith over hate, and He has provided eventual and ultimate recovery in the form of the Redemption.

So to answer your questions:

If people are more wicked now than in Bible/BoM times, then wouldn't God use more natural disasters to destroy the wicked?

Not necessarily. I think it more common that natural disasters are the natural outgrowth or consequence of that wickedness. And God would have us respond in a way that brings us closer to Him, not further away.

Do you think that people that are killed in modern diasters are more wicked than the ones that are not hurt?

Definitely not, but more importantly, it’s not my call. If I were hurt, I would reflect upon my life and faith and have confidence that I would draw the correct conclusions, having the gift of the Holy Ghost. If someone else were hurt, I would help them and not judge them.

It seems like it is easy to understand punishment through natural disasters in olden times. It seems impossible to understand that a modern disaster is ment to punish the wicked. Your thoughts?

See the first few paragraphs above.

[Thunderfire]

So what natural disaster do you think God caused in the last 200 years? Or are you suggesting that God is responsible for ALL of the missery and loss of life of every single disaster that has occurred? And who did he punish? Or was it just random distruction? What message was received by us mortals?

What I suggest is an entirely different paradigm to consider. We are taught that God is "in and through all things" and that we are never alone. We are taught that God is merciful and loving. We are also taught that God's work and his glory is to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.

So it is a great question! How could God bring upon us destruction and death and still fulfill these affirmations? For me, it is very simple: God see's us from the eyes of eternity; we cannot fathom ourselves being eternal beings.

I heard an account from a prophet who testified of God proclaiming that Hurricane Katrine was actually his mercy being poured out before judgment! It was very difficult getting my brain around that until I saw what happened. But this was the prophetic message: Watch what happens...

We are told in scriptures that the love of man will wax cold to our fellow man. But look what happened after Katrina hit! People were taking total strangers into their homes. A great outpouring of help sprung up nation wide as the eyes of a nation turned to the victims whom we did not know.

Those that died in Katrina, in essence, gave their lives for their fellow man. The dead and injured helped turn around an entire nation who had waxed cold in their love. God's ways are not our ways. Yet when we begin to see our eternal nature and God's great work with mankind, we begin to see how "tribulation" and natural disasters, are actually the mercy of God being poured out upon a people whose hearts are far away.

Edited November 2, 2012 by Thunderfire

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

I don't believe God causes natural disasters. However he does choose to allow us how we react to them.

His creation of the world makes for such conditions, and he has used them more than once to teach. This does not mean all natural disasters are for this purpose. "He causeth it to rain upon the wicked and the righteous" (too paraphrase). Unless we are to disbelieve a lot of written scripture.

[california boy]

But another thing to consider for the latter days is that mortal infrastructures and institutions and the earth itself are aging, fallen entities, and also suffer due to the weakness and wickedness of imperfect human beings, which is not God’s doing (if you can’t find some scriptures on this I will look them up). In this case, disasters or our awareness of them are on the increase and serve as a sign or wake-up call to the frailties of and wickedness in the world (and therefore of the better choice to follow God), not God’s punishment of it.

I am not quite sure what you mean here. I would like to understand what you are saying better. Could you clarify at all what you are saying? What do you mean by this " mortal infrastructures and institutions and the earth itself are aging"

So to answer your questions:

If people are more wicked now than in Bible/BoM times, then wouldn't God use more natural disasters to destroy the wicked?

Not necessarily. I think it more common that natural disasters are the natural outgrowth or consequence of that wickedness. And God would have us respond in a way that brings us closer to Him, not further away.

Can you explain why you think that disasters are a natural outgrowth of wickedness as opposed to shifting of tectonic plates or temperature differences between air and warm ocean currents etc. Thanks.

[Duncan]

What I suggest is an entirely different paradigm to consider. We are taught that God is "in and through all things" and that we are never alone. We are taught that God is merciful and loving. We are also taught that God's work and his glory is to bring to pass the immortality and eternal life of man.

So it is a great question! How could God bring upon us destruction and death and still fulfill these affirmations? For me, it is very simple: God see's us from the eyes of eternity; we cannot fathom ourselves being eternal beings.

I heard an account from a prophet who testified of God proclaiming that Hurricane Katrine was actually his mercy being poured out before judgment! It was very difficult getting my brain around that until I saw what happened. But this was the prophetic message: Watch what happens...

We are told in scriptures that the love of man will wax cold to our fellow man. But look what happened after Katrina hit! People were taking total strangers into their homes. A great outpouring of help sprung up nation wide as the eyes of a nation turned to the victims whom we did not know.

Those that died in Katrina, in essence, gave their lives for their fellow man. The dead and injured helped turn around an entire nation who had waxed cold in their love. God's ways are not our ways. Yet when we begin to see our eternal nature and God's great work with mankind, we begin to see how "tribulation" and natural disasters, are actually the mercy of God being poured out upon a people whose hearts are far away.

what about scam artists and fighst at gas stations and Marathons being potentially run in NYC whilst Staten Island...

[Thunderfire]

what about scam artists and fight at gas stations and Marathons being potentially run in NYC whilst Staten Island...

You also saw this happen in New Orleans. It's simply the wheat and the tares. We were shown a nation whose eyes and hearts were turned to the people once more when Katrina hit.

While I'm not in the area of this current calamity, I am assured that many are sharing kindness and mercy even in their trials. Remember, the Lord does not look at the things man looks at. Man looks at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart. (1st Samuel 16:7). It's during times like these that the true heart of man is revealed.

[Damien the Leper]

We are all aware of the stories in the Bible and Book of Mormon where God destroyed the wicked by earthquakes, fire, famine, floods etc. Do you think that God really did use natural disasters to destroy the wicked or do you think it was just how people of that time viewed natural disasters? Do you believe God still uses natural disasters to warn people or destroy the wicked. Are there any natural disasters in the past 200 years that you think were caused by God? If not, then do you believe that people are less wicked today then they were in ancient times? If God does use natural disasters in modern times, do you think His message is lost on the wicked?

No. Divine providence or temporal punishment at the hands of the Divine is false.

IOW, natural disasters are exactly as they are called: NATURAL. This is why they aren't called DIVINE disasters. That would be silly.

[Duncan]

No. Divine providence or temporal punishment at the hands of the Divine is false.

IOW, natural disasters are exactly as they are called: NATURAL. This is why they aren't called DIVINE disasters. That would be silly.

isn't there a designation called, "Acts of God"

[CV75]

I am not quite sure what you mean here. I would like to understand what you are saying better. Could you clarify at all what you are saying? What do you mean by this " mortal infrastructures and institutions and the earth itself are aging"

By mortal infrastructures and institutions I mean the cultures and civilizations we live in. They change for the better or worse over time, and without God’s influence they change to the detriment of those affected by them and can contribute to natural disasters. By the earth I mean our planet. It ages, grows old and will die – I take this from the scriptures such as D&C 88:26. Part of this deterioration is evidenced in natural disasters. The bottom line is that natural disasters occur in a fallen world for reasons in addition to the wicked not heeding God’s warnings that He will cause such an event due to specific conditions.

Can you explain why you think that disasters are a natural outgrowth of wickedness as opposed to shifting of tectonic plates or temperature differences between air and warm ocean currents etc. Thanks.

As indicated above, I would say that disasters are a natural outgrowth of wickedness in addition to forces such as shifting of tectonic plates or temperature differences between air and warm ocean currents etc. If one believes in the aging of the fallen earth, the latter types of disasters would escalate in frequency and severity as time goes on (we generally acknowledge that stars change and “die,” deviating from their current norms in the long process, in turn affecting their solar systems and planets to deviate from their current norms until they are all gone). The former type is observed if one believes that war, poverty, oppression and various other problems arising from what a believer would label “wickedness” lead to environmental and natural, disasters affecting people.

[thesometimesaint]

Duncan:

Yes, it generally means something beyond the control of man. To me it isn't the natural disasters that count. We've always had them and chances are real good we'll continue to have them for a long time to come. However it is our reaction to them that does counts with man and God.

Edited November 2, 2012 by thesometimesaint

[Duncan]

Duncan:

Yes, it generally means something beyond the control of man. To me it isn't the natural disasters that count. We've always had them and chances are real good we'll continue to have them for a long time to come. However it is our reaction to them that does counts with man and God.

good enough for me!!!

[RobertAC]

Come on now, why don't you tell us how you really feel.

LOL! I guess it shows.

Nope. I don't believe in divine disasters brought on to punish anyone.

Robert Smith's comment in response to mine that "Clear thinkers realize that God may be allowing free agency to prevail, even if that principle undermines normative Judeo-Christian dogma" reminds me of a thought-provoking response a seminarian gave a former Christian-turned-atheist acquaintence of mine. The question was how could God exist with so many bad things occuring in the world. The gist of the response was that God had to allow for free-choice. He could not be all loving, all knowing, and all powerful but allow so many horrible event to happen to people unless God was willing to let the world make its own decisions as to how it would live.

[Damien the Leper]

isn't there a designation called, "Acts of God"

Yes...it's called a hallucination or psychosis (just kidding).

[Calm]

isn't there a designation called, "Acts of God"

In an insurance claim against a landlord that I know of, the landlord called the toilet overflowing upstairs and flooding an area downstairs ruining thousands of dollars worth of printed material "an act of God".

Not all acts designated of God are as labeled.

[TAO]

So what natural disaster do you think God caused in the last 200 years? Or are you suggesting that God is responsible for ALL of the missery and loss of life of every single disaster that has occurred? And who did he punish? Or was it just random distruction? What message was received by us mortals?

I have no idea honestly. He caused what he caused. He let happen what he let happen. By small things, doth the Lord counfound the wise and bring to pass the salvation of many souls. I'm gonna hold my tounge for the most part until I can talk to him specifically on the issue, I think.

I just know he can do it, has done so in the past (according to the Book of Mormon) and that he is much more involved than we would expect. So I'd say it happens. We just don't know all of the details about it.

Edited November 2, 2012 by TAO

[Kerry A. Shirts]

The Bible does not have a uniform opinion on whether God punishes us for sins or not. There is no "Bible" view, uniform and consistent. Does God send natural disasters? If he does, he obviously fails to get the world convinced he is angry and we need to change. Wouldn't simply coming among us and acting like a loving father be far and away more valuable and helpful for us as a world? I mean gee, what kind of Father is it that stays away for millenia and yet expects us to be impressed? After all, the supposition is he actually does supposedly love the world. The amazing thing is if he genuinely has foresight, foreknowledge, he actually already KNOWS that if it is his handiwork, it fails every time so why with foresight would he continue on using an utterly failed policy?! This is just woo weird of thinking for words.

[Lightbearer]

We are all aware of the stories in the Bible and Book of Mormon where God destroyed the wicked by earthquakes, fire, famine, floods etc. Do you think that God really did use natural disasters to destroy the wicked or do you think it was just how people of that time viewed natural disasters? Do you believe God still uses natural disasters to warn people or destroy the wicked. Are there any natural disasters in the past 200 years that you think were caused by God? If not, then do you believe that people are less wicked today then they were in ancient times? If God does use natural disasters in modern times, do you think His message is lost on the wicked?

Yes I do believe God uses natural disasters to destroy the wicked and He continues to do so. I think we live in a more wicked time than all of human history. I think the wicked often have the sorrowing of the damned because they refuse to repent, but I also believe that disasters humble us all both the wicked and the righteous and that the righteous must go through the trials of mortality. So if a person is killed in a disaster it does not always follow that they were wicked. I also have seen people soften their hearts and repent or at least try to be better because of what they suffer. As well is it gives us the opportunity to be charitable and to help others and often by letting our light so shine others "go and do likewise" so you could say disasters are multipurpose. I believe in the Book of Mormon the people who were not destroyed because they were "more righteous" than the ones who were destroyed and it help prepare their hearts for the Lord's visit to them. The killing of the wicked during the flood was a great blessing to their unborn descendants so they were not cursed to be brought up with their fathers (or perspective father's) abominations. That way they were diverted to more righteous ancestors.

[RobertAC]

The Bible does not have a uniform opinion on whether God punishes us for sins or not. There is no "Bible" view, uniform and consistent. Does God send natural disasters? If he does, he obviously fails to get the world convinced he is angry and we need to change. Wouldn't simply coming among us and acting like a loving father be far and away more valuable and helpful for us as a world? I mean gee, what kind of Father is it that stays away for millenia and yet expects us to be impressed?

I would agree. We as humans like to put explanations on tradgedies when, quite often, there is no explanation.

[ERayR]

I would agree. We as humans like to put explanations on tradgedies when, quite often, there is no explanation.

The Bible does not have a uniform opinion on whether God punishes us for sins or not. There is no "Bible" view, uniform and consistent. Does God send natural disasters? If he does, he obviously fails to get the world convinced he is angry and we need to change. Wouldn't simply coming among us and acting like a loving father be far and away more valuable and helpful for us as a world? I mean gee, what kind of Father is it that stays away for millenia and yet expects us to be impressed? After all, the supposition is he actually does supposedly love the world. The amazing thing is if he genuinely has foresight, foreknowledge, he actually already KNOWS that if it is his handiwork, it fails every time so why with foresight would he continue on using an utterly failed policy?! This is just woo weird of thinking for words.

And some of us like to put God in our own box and castigate him when he doesn't do things the way we think he ought to. Presumptuous we are.

[Robert F. Smith]

I am right there with you, Jeremy. I do not believe that a benevolent and infinitely loving God would wreak havoc on his children...sinful or not. People tell me that is an unbiblical belief, but I really don't care. I think many things have been attributed to God, even in the Bible, that were likely not his doing.

Since His children are beings co-eternal with Him, and since they must constantly be exposed to the school of hard knocks, and have real free agency, it seems unlikely that God is going to be namby pamby about certain matters. For many, just the Holocaust alone was enough to kill their belief in God. They were deeply disappointed to find that the fairy faith they had grown up with depicted a "God" very much like the pusillanimous punk version of Christ depicted by Hollywood in the 1961 film "King of Kings." Such a Christ (dare one say "God incarnate") was hardly worthy of respect or awe. The real thing is too much for some people who have been subsisting on utterly childish versions of what it means to be a god. And most people on planet Earth do not live in "Happy Valley," where all things are sweetness and light. For most people, life is "nasty, brutish, and short." For those of us who are specially privileged, we need to stop whining and find ways to help our less fortunate brethren worldwide.

[Michael Sanders]

“Prepare yourselves for the great day of the Lord: for if I, who am a man, do lift up my voice and call upon you to repent, and ye hate me, what will ye say when the day cometh when the thunders shall utter their voices from the ends of the earth, speaking to the ears of all that live, saying: Repent, and prepare for the great day of the Lord; yea, and again, when the lightnings shall streak forth from the east unto the west, and shall utter forth their voices unto all that live, and make the ears of all tingle, that hear, saying these words: Repent ye, for the great day of the Lord is come. And again, the Lord shall utter his voice out of heaven, saying: Hearken, O ye nations of the earth, and hear the words of that God who made you. O, ye nations of the earth, how often would I have gathered you together as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, but ye would not?How oft have I called upon you by the mouth of my servants, and by the ministering of angels, and by mine own voice, and by the voice of thunderings, and by the voice of lightnings, and by the voice of tempests, and by the voice of earthquakes, and great hailstorms, and by the voice of famines and pestilences of every kind, and by the great sound of a trump, and by the voice of judgment, and by the voice of mercy all the day long, and by the voice of glory and honor, and the riches of eternal life, and would have saved you with an everlasting salvation, but ye would not? Behold, the day has come, when the cup of the wrath of mine indignation is full. Behold, verily I say unto you, that these are the words of the Lord your God; wherefore, labor ye, labor ye in my vineyard for the last time: for the last time call upon the inhabitants of the earth, for in my own due time will I come upon the earth in judgment; and my people shall be redeemed and shall reign with me on earth…” – Latter Day Revelation

Yes, God can speak through these natural phenomenon.

Mike Sanders

Book of Mormon Believer

Indpendence, MO

[volgadon]

Wouldn't simply coming among us and acting like a loving father be far and away more valuable and helpful for us as a world? I mean gee, what kind of Father is it that stays away for millenia and yet expects us to be impressed?

I recommend reading Abraham Joshua Heschel's "God in Search of Man." Also worth reading is Psalm 73 and Buber's essay on it.

[california boy]

“Prepare yourselves for the great day of the Lord: for if I, who am a man, do lift up my voice and call upon you to repent, and ye hate me, what will ye say when the day cometh when the thunders shall utter their voices from the ends of the earth, speaking to the ears of all that live, saying: Repent, and prepare for the great day of the Lord; yea, and again, when the lightnings shall streak forth from the east unto the west, and shall utter forth their voices unto all that live, and make the ears of all tingle, that hear, saying these words: Repent ye, for the great day of the Lord is come. And again, the Lord shall utter his voice out of heaven, saying: Hearken, O ye nations of the earth, and hear the words of that God who made you. O, ye nations of the earth, how often would I have gathered you together as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, but ye would not?How oft have I called upon you by the mouth of my servants, and by the ministering of angels, and by mine own voice, and by the voice of thunderings, and by the voice of lightnings, and by the voice of tempests, and by the voice of earthquakes, and great hailstorms, and by the voice of famines and pestilences of every kind, and by the great sound of a trump, and by the voice of judgment, and by the voice of mercy all the day long, and by the voice of glory and honor, and the riches of eternal life, and would have saved you with an everlasting salvation, but ye would not? Behold, the day has come, when the cup of the wrath of mine indignation is full. Behold, verily I say unto you, that these are the words of the Lord your God; wherefore, labor ye, labor ye in my vineyard for the last time: for the last time call upon the inhabitants of the earth, for in my own due time will I come upon the earth in judgment; and my people shall be redeemed and shall reign with me on earth…” – Latter Day Revelation

Yes, God can speak through these natural phenomenon.

Mike Sanders

Book of Mormon Believer

Indpendence, MO

I certainly get what the scriptures tell us what has happened in the past and predicts what will happen in the future. I guess I feel that if God is using natural disasters to punish the wicked, it is a lesson lost on the wicked and seems pointless in our day as a way of teaching mankind any kind of lesson at all.