Does God Cause Natural Disasters?

[JeremyOrbe-Smith]

[Libs]

Since His children are beings co-eternal with Him, and since they must constantly be exposed to the school of hard knocks, and have real free agency, it seems unlikely that God is going to be namby pamby about certain matters. For many, just the Holocaust alone was enough to kill their belief in God. They were deeply disappointed to find that the fairy faith they had grown up with depicted a "God" very much like the pusillanimous punk version of Christ depicted by Hollywood in the 1961 film "King of Kings." Such a Christ (dare one say "God incarnate") was hardly worthy of respect or awe. The real thing is too much for some people who have been subsisting on utterly childish versions of what it means to be a god. And most people on planet Earth do not live in "Happy Valley," where all things are sweetness and light. For most people, life is "nasty, brutish, and short." For those of us who are specially privileged, we need to stop whining and find ways to help our less fortunate brethren worldwide.

Ah, so God can only be great, if he is killing off sinners through natural disasters? Or, generally, making our lives difficult?

I don't believe in a namby-pamby God, but my definition of "Great" and worthy of awe and worship, doesn't include bringing violence on people, sinners or not. There is nothing great or awe inspiring about that. God did not cause the Holocaust. Evil men did that. God doesn't throw lightning bolts at "homosexuals"...nature does that and it's quite random, having nothing whatsoever to do with humans sinning.

Edited November 3, 2012 by Libs

[Sleeper Cell]

If he does, he obviously fails to get the world convinced he is angry and we need to change. Wouldn't simply coming among us and acting like a loving father be far and away more valuable and helpful for us as a world?

Didn’t he try that? If so, how well did it work out?

[CV75]

I certainly get what the scriptures tell us what has happened in the past and predicts what will happen in the future. I guess I feel that if God is using natural disasters to punish the wicked, it is a lesson lost on the wicked and seems pointless in our day as a way of teaching mankind any kind of lesson at all.

That is the point in these cases of punishment—once the wicked are punished (as opposed to warned, taught, humbled, etc.) it means the prior lessons in any of their forms have been lost on them and by them, and that the final consequence is indeed their loss. Punishment means they are beyond the point of teaching and condemning.

The point in other cases (such warning, teaching, reflecting, humbling, etc.) is that the wicked repent and the righteous stay on course, and that neither group lose the lesson.

The point in yet other cases—the way life is in this world is that we are tried and determine out our own course of wickedness or righteousness.

[california boy]

That is the point in these cases of punishment—once the wicked are punished (as opposed to warned, taught, humbled, etc.) it means the prior lessons in any of their forms have been lost on them and by them, and that the final consequence is indeed their loss. Punishment means they are beyond the point of teaching and condemning.

The point in other cases (such warning, teaching, reflecting, humbling, etc.) is that the wicked repent and the righteous stay on course, and that neither group lose the lesson.

The point in yet other cases—the way life is in this world is that we are tried and determine out our own course of wickedness or righteousness.

Could you give an example of this in modern times?

[telnetd]

The moment anyone starts claiming that a supposedly omnibenevolent God is causing a natural disaster to punish sinners is the same moment I become confident that they're mingling the philosophies of men with scripture.

3 Nephi 8:8-16; 9:19-23 mentions about 16 cities that were destroyed by storms,

earthquakes, etc and the many number of people who were slain.

3 Nephi 10:12 says, "And it was the more righteous part of the people who were

saved, and it was they who received the prophets and stoned them not; and it

was they who had not shed the blood of the saints, who were spared".

3 Nephi 8:25 says, "And in another place they were heard to cry and mourn,

saying: O that we had repented before this great and terrible day, and had not

killed and stoned the prophets, and cast them out; then would our mothers and

our fair daughters, and our children have been spared, and not have been

buried up in that great city Moronihah. And thus were the howlings of the

people great and terrible"

3 Nephi 9:13 says, "O all ye that are spared because ye were more righteous

than they, will ye not now return unto me, and repent of your sins, and be

converted, that I may heal you?"

Who caused these disasters at the moment of Christ's death?

Gail

[CV75]

Could you give an example of this in modern times?

I'm more interested in why you have no comment for post #36.

But with the degree of interest I have in this question, I answered it in post #17.

[Kerry A. Shirts]

Didn’t he try that? If so, how well did it work out?

So God only has the power or interest to try once?! That's it? Really? We are taught to believe that there is absolutely nothing more important for God than to have us love him, cherish him, worship him, be with him, and that he will do anything he can to help us.......and now it is supposed that his one try over 2,000 years ago is all he's got? Do you really want to go down that trail?

[Sleeper Cell]

So God only has the power or interest to try once?! That's it? Really? We are taught to believe that there is absolutely nothing more important for God than to have us love him, cherish him, worship him, be with him, and that he will do anything he can to help us.......and now it is supposed that his one try over 2,000 years ago is all he's got? Do you really want to go down that trail?

It is also possible that God believes that the outcome wouldn’t be that much different.

BTW, if there is “absolutely nothing more important for God to have us love him, cherish him, worship him, and be with him,” why didn’t he leave well enough alone in the first place, rather than send us to earth?

[mathilde]

3 Nephi 8:8-16; 9:19-23 mentions about 16 cities that were destroyed by storms,

earthquakes, etc and the many number of people who were slain.

3 Nephi 10:12 says, "And it was the more righteous part of the people who were

saved, and it was they who received the prophets and stoned them not; and it

was they who had not shed the blood of the saints, who were spared".

3 Nephi 8:25 says, "And in another place they were heard to cry and mourn,

saying: O that we had repented before this great and terrible day, and had not

killed and stoned the prophets, and cast them out; then would our mothers and

our fair daughters, and our children have been spared, and not have been

buried up in that great city Moronihah. And thus were the howlings of the

people great and terrible"

3 Nephi 9:13 says, "O all ye that are spared because ye were more righteous

than they, will ye not now return unto me, and repent of your sins, and be

converted, that I may heal you?"

Who caused these disasters at the moment of Christ's death?

Gail

Christ takes responsibility and gives reasons in 3 Nephi 9:1-15 which was partially quoted before. If we are taking the Book of Mormon seriously, we probably have to take a careful look at that.

[mfbukowski]

I suppose if you think God is the First Cause then it is all his fault.

But I don't think that. I am a Mormon.

[mfbukowski]

Robert, you're in for a rude awakening when you die. LOL

So being rude now makes up for it somehow?

[Sky]

I think these freak storms like Sandy and Katrina are most likely a result of human-induced climate change through the use of carbon/greenhouse gas emissions that warm the atmosphere. I mean it's pretty much an undisputed fact that the polar icecaps are melting and the sea levels are rising. I'm not a scientist though, but I tend to trust the overwhelming scientific consensus.

How exactly does our Heavenly Father fit in with all of this? Well, I don't know. But I do know that in the scriptures it talks about certain signs that would precede the Second Coming - mighty tempests of the air, famines, and earthquakes being among them. Which ones are directly caused by God, I don't think anybody really knows. If the prophets know, they certainly aren't saying it publicly. So probably our best approach is to not panic, be watchful and prepared (i.e. food storage), and to do our best to obey the commandments of God.

[california boy]

I'm more interested in why you have no comment for post #36.

But with the degree of interest I have in this question, I answered it in post #17.

I don't start threads very often. WhenI do, it is not really my goal to espouse what I think. Rather it is more because I am interested in the ideas and opinions of others. I found post 36 to be quite interesting. I am glad you took the time to respond. What I haven't really gotten an answer to is how God controlling or commanding natural disasters relates to our modern times. I guess that is why I keep asking the question to find out if other people think that God is behind natural disasters in modern times. While you did answer that question, I was hoping that you would provide some kind of example or reason for stating what you think.

Thanks for being patient with me. I guess that is all the answer I am going to get from you. And that is fine. I am just curious how you and others think this all works. What I have found out from asking these questions is that people are concrete in the belief that God has caused natural disasters in olden times. These disasters have been directed on the wicked. They have either repented or died. So it seems to have worked. But no one has been able to cite the equivalent kind of situation in modern times. It leaves me with not knowing if people think that God still uses natural disasters to punish with wicked or not. And manybe that is my answer. There is no answer.

[california boy]

I liked this btw. Gays seem to be the group blamed the most often for natural disasters. I guess all other sins caused by straights do not even come close to the sin of homosexuality.

10 disasters the Gays Supposedly Caused

[CV75]

I don't start threads very often. WhenI do, it is not really my goal to espouse what I think. Rather it is more because I am interested in the ideas and opinions of others. I found post 36 to be quite interesting. I am glad you took the time to respond. What I haven't really gotten an answer to is how God controlling or commanding natural disasters relates to our modern times. I guess that is why I keep asking the question to find out if other people think that God is behind natural disasters in modern times. While you did answer that question, I was hoping that you would provide some kind of example or reason for stating what you think.

Thanks for being patient with me. I guess that is all the answer I am going to get from you. And that is fine. I am just curious how you and others think this all works. What I have found out from asking these questions is that people are concrete in the belief that God has caused natural disasters in olden times. These disasters have been directed on the wicked. They have either repented or died. So it seems to have worked. But no one has been able to cite the equivalent kind of situation in modern times. It leaves me with not knowing if people think that God still uses natural disasters to punish with wicked or not. And manybe that is my answer. There is no answer.

My understanding of the strictly God-driven, latter-day destruction of the wicked is that they pertain to events immediately preceding the Second Coming, so they are not yet explicitly evident. These are how I take the prophecies, and I don’t take them all to be exclusively “natural” as some are quite miraculous (2 Nephi 30:10).

All the other forms of latter-day destruction are part of God’s plan one way or another, but are consequent to the natural decay and the operation of human agency that occur in mortal systems. So what we perceive as an increase as we near the Second Coming makes sense to me. In either case it is well to take heed and align what we observe and learn with the will of God. For the spiritually or metaphysically inclined, the connection between humanity and the planet allows consideration of our stewardship for this natural resource and for each other—a purely material or survival mentality is not conducive to long term improvement and progress.

Does God still use natural disasters to punish the wicked? I suppose the wicked that have been targeted for destruction in them won’t or cannot say, and the righteous who have survived are too reticent to judge. But it makes sense that God can remove the wicked that interfere with His work when He sees the need, just as He spares the lives of His servants. Testimonies abound for the latter, so in line with the principle of opposition, there must be anti-testimonies that are never voiced in this world by the wicked that are destroyed.

[CV75]

I liked this btw. Gays seem to be the group blamed the most often for natural disasters. I guess all other sins caused by straights do not even come close to the sin of homosexuality.

And thus we see the natural destruction of another thread by making it all about gays.

[california boy]

And thus we see the natural destruction of another thread by making it all about gays.

Good point. I should not have responded. sorry

[Kerry A. Shirts]

It is also possible that God believes that the outcome wouldn’t be that much different.

BTW, if there is “absolutely nothing more important for God to have us love him, cherish him, worship him, and be with him,” why didn’t he leave well enough alone in the first place, rather than send us to earth?

Excellent point actually! On the other hand, now that we are here (as a reward?!) you would at least think he was a little more worried about the situation that he obviously has foreseen already, and would find a much better way to carry on his work than has been done for thousands of years. I mean after all, we are to believe that this is the ALMIGHTY'S ability are we not?

[ERayR]

I think these freak storms like Sandy and Katrina are most likely a result of human-induced climate change through the use of carbon/greenhouse gas emissions that warm the atmosphere. I mean it's pretty much an undisputed fact that the polar icecaps are melting and the sea levels are rising. I'm not a scientist though, but I tend to trust the overwhelming scientific consensus.

And other fairy tales.

[CV75]

Good point. I should not have responded. sorry

At least it's your own thread!

I just hope there isn't retalion in the form of equally tedious and preachy, too-long and un-funny cartoons.

[ERayR]

Ah, so God can only be great, if he is killing off sinners through natural disasters? Or, generally, making our lives difficult?

I don't believe in a namby-pamby God, but my definition of "Great" and worthy of awe and worship, doesn't include bringing violence on people, sinners or not. There is nothing great or awe inspiring about that. God did not cause the Holocaust. Evil men did that. God doesn't throw lightning bolts at "homosexuals"...nature does that and it's quite random, having nothing whatsoever to do with humans sinning.

Nope, what is great is that God gives us the opportunity to rise to our own greatness. We live in a perilous world surrounded by the fury of natural forces with the depravity of fellow humans thrown in and he allows us to the opportunity to respond in our own way. Imagine the pressure exerted by the feelings of a loving father to throw an umbrella of protection he must resist.

[harfad]

What I haven't really gotten an answer to is how God controlling or commanding natural disasters relates to our modern times. I guess that is why I keep asking the question to find out if other people think that God is behind natural disasters in modern times....

What I have found out from asking these questions is that people are concrete in the belief that God has caused natural disasters in olden times. These disasters have been directed on the wicked. They have either repented or died. So it seems to have worked. But no one has been able to cite the equivalent kind of situation in modern times. It leaves me with not knowing if people think that God still uses natural disasters to punish with wicked or not.

What makes you think modern times should be any different from olden times? Several people have quoted scripture prophesying of natural disasters to destroy (or warn) the wicked in latter days, which means modern times. I don't recall if the following verses were quoted or not, but they are to the point:

89 For after your testimony cometh the testimony of earthquakes, that shall cause groanings in the midst of her, and men shall fall upon the ground and shall not be able to stand.

90 And also cometh the testimony of the voice of thunderings, and the voice of lightnings, and the voice of tempests, and the voice of the waves of the sea heaving themselves beyond their bounds.

91 And all things shall be in commotion; and surely, men’s hearts shall fail them. (D&C 88:89-91).

I think these prophecies are being fulfilled right now, so your question has been answered.

[california boy]

What makes you think modern times should be any different from olden times? Several people have quoted scripture prophesying of natural disasters to destroy (or warn) the wicked in latter days, which means modern times. I don't recall if the following verses were quoted or not, but they are to the point:

89 For after your testimony cometh the testimony of earthquakes, that shall cause groanings in the midst of her, and men shall fall upon the ground and shall not be able to stand.

90 And also cometh the testimony of the voice of thunderings, and the voice of lightnings, and the voice of tempests, and the voice of the waves of the sea heaving themselves beyond their bounds.

91 And all things shall be in commotion; and surely, men’s hearts shall fail them. (D&C 88:89-91).

I think these prophecies are being fulfilled right now, so your question has been answered.

I am not aware of a time in the history of the world that there were not earthquakes, thunderings, lightnings floods etc. How is this prophesy fulfilled? And has any wickedness been destroyed by them in modern times?

That is how my question has not been answered.

[california boy]

My understanding of the strictly God-driven, latter-day destruction of the wicked is that they pertain to events immediately preceding the Second Coming, so they are not yet explicitly evident. These are how I take the prophecies, and I don’t take them all to be exclusively “natural” as some are quite miraculous (2 Nephi 30:10).

All the other forms of latter-day destruction are part of God’s plan one way or another, but are consequent to the natural decay and the operation of human agency that occur in mortal systems. So what we perceive as an increase as we near the Second Coming makes sense to me. In either case it is well to take heed and align what we observe and learn with the will of God. For the spiritually or metaphysically inclined, the connection between humanity and the planet allows consideration of our stewardship for this natural resource and for each other—a purely material or survival mentality is not conducive to long term improvement and progress.

Does God still use natural disasters to punish the wicked? I suppose the wicked that have been targeted for destruction in them won’t or cannot say, and the righteous who have survived are too reticent to judge. But it makes sense that God can remove the wicked that interfere with His work when He sees the need, just as He spares the lives of His servants. Testimonies abound for the latter, so in line with the principle of opposition, there must be anti-testimonies that are never voiced in this world by the wicked that are destroyed.

Thanks for your thoughts. I found them interesting.