Does God Cause Natural Disasters?

[california boy]

We are all aware of the stories in the Bible and Book of Mormon where God destroyed the wicked by earthquakes, fire, famine, floods etc. Do you think that God really did use natural disasters to destroy the wicked or do you think it was just how people of that time viewed natural disasters? Do you believe God still uses natural disasters to warn people or destroy the wicked. Are there any natural disasters in the past 200 years that you think were caused by God? If not, then do you believe that people are less wicked today then they were in ancient times? If God does use natural disasters in modern times, do you think His message is lost on the wicked?

[TAO]

Yes, God can cause natural disasters. I'm sure God is tied to everythign in some way or another, I guess =).

Sometimes natural disasters are lost on the wicked, yes, but other times it makes them more humble. Sometimes natural disasters happen to people who aren't wicked as well =).

Edited November 2, 2012 by TAO

[RobertAC]

Like God punished the Jews by causing the Holocaust to occur?

If God is trying to say something with whosesale destruction, He is not getting the point across.

No evidence suggests any trajedy is caused by supernatural powers. There is no geological evidence that God caused the flood that gave us the rainbow and a wooden ark with two of each animal. It is an early myth adopted by the Judeans from stories heard from the Assyrians/Sumerians. Unfortunately, people like to see great meaning in painful events, but the real deity connecting disasters and people is simple coincidence.

[california boy]

Yes, God can cause natural disasters. I'm sure God is tied to everythign in some way or another, I guess =).

Sometimes natural disasters are lost on the wicked, yes, but other times it makes them more humble. Sometimes natural disasters happen to people who aren't wicked as well =).

So what natural disaster do you think God caused in the last 200 years? Or are you suggesting that God is responsible for ALL of the missery and loss of life of every single disaster that has occurred? And who did he punish? Or was it just random distruction? What message was received by us mortals?

[JeremyOrbe-Smith]

And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For [...] ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. All these are the beginning of sorrows. [...] And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. (Matthew 24)

And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did? But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of. For the Son of man is not come to destroy men’s lives, but to save them. (Luke 9:54)

I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. (John 10:9)

The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. (1 Corinthians 15:26)

The moment anyone starts claiming that a supposedly omnibenevolent God is causing a natural disaster to punish sinners is the same moment I become confident that they're mingling the philosophies of men with scripture.

Bottom line: you don't teach moral lessons via hurricane.

(I know, I know, I'm just part of an apostate generation seeking to deny God's hand in all things, which is just further proof that these are like The Days of Noe, etc..)

Edited November 2, 2012 by JeremyOrbe-Smith

[Robert F. Smith]

Like God punished the Jews by causing the Holocaust to occur?

I have heard some people complain that God didn't prevent the Holocaust, just as he has not prevented many another such horrific genocide or ethnic cleansing. Some find this question to undermine the sovereignty of God, while others speak of unmerited suffering being redemptive. Clear thinkers realize that God may be allowing free agency to prevail, even if that principle undermines normative Judeo-Christian dogma.

If God is trying to say something with whosesale destruction, He is not getting the point across.

That assumes what has to be proved.

No evidence suggests any trajedy is caused by supernatural powers. There is no geological evidence that God caused the flood that gave us the rainbow and a wooden ark with two of each animal. It is an early myth adopted by the Judeans from stories heard from the Assyrians/Sumerians. Unfortunately, people like to see great meaning in painful events, but the real deity connecting disasters and people is simple coincidence.

Unnecessary assumptions, such as a worldwide rather than regional Deluge, or that supernatural powers are required to intervene, tend to confuse the issues here rather than clarify them.

The assumption of "simple coincidence" may be more difficult to accept than natural intervention by God, e.g., how to explain the Babylonian and Roman destruction of Jerusalem centuries apart on the very same calendar day? Both predicted beforehand.

[lithpblithh]

We are all aware of the stories in the Bible and Book of Mormon where God destroyed the wicked by earthquakes, fire, famine, floods etc. Do you think that God really did use natural disasters to destroy the wicked or do you think it was just how people of that time viewed natural disasters? Do you believe God still uses natural disasters to warn people or destroy the wicked. Are there any natural disasters in the past 200 years that you think were caused by God? If not, then do you believe that people are less wicked today then they were in ancient times? If God does use natural disasters in modern times, do you think His message is lost on the wicked?

I think the case that God is causing the destruction of peoples with natural disasters is very strong in 3 Nephi. It's not people imagining it was God--God himself says so over and over again. Read 3 Nephi 9 and notice the phrase "I caused."

I caused to be sunk in the depths of the sea, and the inhabitants thereof to be drowned.

I covered with earth, and the inhabitants thereof

I caused to be sunk, and the inhabitants thereof to be buried up in the depths of the earth;

I caused to be sunk

I caused to be burned with fire

[Libs]

The moment anyone starts claiming that a supposedly omnibenevolent God is causing a natural disaster to punish sinners is the same moment I become confident that they're mingling the philosophies of men with scripture.

Bottom line: you don't teach moral lessons via hurricane.

(I know, I know, I'm just part of an apostate generation seeking to deny God's hand in all things, which is just further proof that these are like The Days of Noe, etc..)

I am right there with you, Jeremy. I do not believe that a benevolent and infinitely loving God would wreak havoc on his children...sinful or not. People tell me that is an unbiblical belief, but I really don't care. I think many things have been attributed to God, even in the Bible, that were likely not his doing.

[california boy]

I think the case that God is causing the destruction of peoples with natural disasters is very strong in 3 Nephi. It's not people imagining it was God--God himself says so over and over again. Read 3 Nephi 9 and notice the phrase "I caused."

I caused to be sunk in the depths of the sea, and the inhabitants thereof to be drowned.

I covered with earth, and the inhabitants thereof

I caused to be sunk, and the inhabitants thereof to be buried up in the depths of the earth;

I caused to be sunk

I caused to be burned with fire

This is exactly what I was asking about. Has God caused any natural disasters in the past 200 years? If not, why?

[ed2276]

Like God punished the Jews by causing the Holocaust to occur?

If God is trying to say something with whosesale destruction, He is not getting the point across.

No evidence suggests any trajedy is caused by supernatural powers. There is no geological evidence that God caused the flood that gave us the rainbow and a wooden ark with two of each animal. It is an early myth adopted by the Judeans from stories heard from the Assyrians/Sumerians. Unfortunately, people like to see great meaning in painful events, but the real deity connecting disasters and people is simple coincidence.

Robert, you're in for a rude awakening when you die. LOL

[harfad]

There is no doubt that natural disasters are cased by God. If a sparrow does not fall without his knowledge (and permission), would an earthquqke kill thousands without it? Even the rain and snow in their season do not fall without his direct action (D&C 117:1), therefore much more so natural disasters of greater magnitude.

[ed2276]

The moment anyone starts claiming that a supposedly omnibenevolent God is causing a natural disaster to punish sinners is the same moment I become confident that they're mingling the philosophies of men with scripture.

Bottom line: you don't teach moral lessons via hurricane.

(I know, I know, I'm just part of an apostate generation seeking to deny God's hand in all things, which is just further proof that these are like The Days of Noe, etc..)

Cherry-picking the Bible much? There is ample evidence throughout the Bible of God sending all matter of natural disasters on earthlings, including His chosen people. Search plagues and pestilence to start...one of which killed 70,000 of Dan's tribe.

Even the LDS were warned early on that they had better shape up or there would be judgments poured out on them from Heaven:

D&C 97:25 Nevertheless, Zion shall ^aescape if she observe to do all things whatsoever I have commanded her.

26 But if she ^aobserve not to do whatsoever I have commanded her, I will ^bvisit her ^caccording to all her works, with sore affliction, with ^dpestilence, with ^eplague, with sword, with ^fvengeance, with ^gdevouring fire.

[JeremyOrbe-Smith]

There's also ample "evidence" that God literally and directly commanded the slaughter of completely innocent children.

Insofar as such scriptures are accurate about the attributes and actions of this Being, I choose not to worship such a supposedly "good" God. Of course, insofar as they are retroactive nationalistic propaganda, I doubt their historicity. I don't think the Spirit of Wisdom told Nephi to cut off a drunk's head, either. If there are mistakes in the scriptures, they are the self-justifying errors of good but fallible men. Inasmuch as we err, we will be corrected if we seek out wisdom.

President J. Reuben Clark:

"If we have truth, it cannot be harmed by investigation. If we have not truth, it ought to be harmed [since a truth-seeker] must get at facts, he must consider motives -- he must tear off the mask and lay bare the countenance, however hideous. The frightful skeleton of truth must always be exposed [and he] must make every conclusion pass the fiery ordeal of pitiless reason. If their conclusions cannot stand this test, they are false. [As far as] religious convictions [go], what he can himself reason out, according to his standards, he accepts unqualifiedly; whatever cannot stand his tests, he rejects as unfit."

Edited November 2, 2012 by JeremyOrbe-Smith

[california boy]

Cherry-picking the Bible much? There is ample evidence throughout the Bible of God sending all matter of natural disasters on earthlings, including His chosen people. Search plagues and pestilence to start...one of which killed 70,000 of Dan's tribe.

Even the LDS were warned early on that they had better shape up or there would be judgments poured out on them from Heaven:

So once again, I ask, do you think that God has sent a natural disaster to punish mankind for evil in the past 200 years? If not, why not.

[bluebell]

I think sometimes God does cause natural disasters and that He does so for both the righteous and the wicked. And don't ask me which ones He's caused in the last 200 years, as I don't know and I don't think it matters. If He didn't cause one directly, it happened with His permission (to use another poster's words) to serve His purposes.

Natural disasters are not like wars or other man-made horrors, which can be blamed on the agency of men.

[ERayR]

Like God punished the Jews by causing the Holocaust to occur?

If God is trying to say something with whosesale destruction, He is not getting the point across.

No evidence suggests any trajedy is caused by supernatural powers. There is no geological evidence that God caused the flood that gave us the rainbow and a wooden ark with two of each animal. It is an early myth adopted by the Judeans from stories heard from the Assyrians/Sumerians. Unfortunately, people like to see great meaning in painful events, but the real deity connecting disasters and people is simple coincidence.

Come on now, why don't you tell us how you really feel.

[CV75]

We are all aware of the stories in the Bible and Book of Mormon where God destroyed the wicked by earthquakes, fire, famine, floods etc. Do you think that God really did use natural disasters to destroy the wicked or do you think it was just how people of that time viewed natural disasters? Do you believe God still uses natural disasters to warn people or destroy the wicked. Are there any natural disasters in the past 200 years that you think were caused by God? If not, then do you believe that people are less wicked today then they were in ancient times? If God does use natural disasters in modern times, do you think His message is lost on the wicked?

Do you think that God really did use natural disasters to destroy the wicked or do you think it was just how people of that time viewed natural disasters?

Yes to both, depending on the particulars.

Do you believe God still uses natural disasters to warn people or destroy the wicked.

Yes. And not only to destroy, but to warn them, protect the faithful from them, protect them from further mistakes, and other purposes.

Are there any natural disasters in the past 200 years that you think were caused by God?

There are some minor ones in Church history, any other personal observation would have to be informed by the spirit of prophecy, which I am not particularly motivated to access for this purpose.

If not, then do you believe that people are less wicked today then they were in ancient times?

Regardless, I think that more people have more resources (both temporal and spiritual) that they foolishly allow to serve Satan's purposes. So the net wickedness in the earth is greater if not the number of individuals that are wicked.

If God does use natural disasters in modern times, do you think His message is lost on the wicked?

No, not all, as some repent; and as in the Book of Mormon, the "more righteous" who ar spared and repent can reach out to the "less righteous," the "less wicked" and even perhaps the "more wicked" that ermain.

[ERayR]

This is exactly what I was asking about. Has God caused any natural disasters in the past 200 years? If not, why?

Don't know nor do I think it matters.

[california boy]

Don't know nor do I think it matters.

If you don't know or if it doesn't matter, then what is the point of God causing a natural disaster to chastise or punish the wicked? I am not trying to give you a bad time on this, I am just curious how you think God's actions actually work out in modern day times.

[altersteve]

He could if He wanted to. That doesn't mean every natural disaster is His doing, though. Sometimes it's just natural.

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

We are all aware of the stories in the Bible and Book of Mormon where God destroyed the wicked by earthquakes, fire, famine, floods etc. Do you think that God really did use natural disasters to destroy the wicked or do you think it was just how people of that time viewed natural disasters? Do you believe God still uses natural disasters to warn people or destroy the wicked. Are there any natural disasters in the past 200 years that you think were caused by God? If not, then do you believe that people are less wicked today then they were in ancient times? If God does use natural disasters in modern times, do you think His message is lost on the wicked?

It is a tool, any tool can be used to build or destroy.

[thesometimesaint]

I don't believe God causes natural disasters. However he does choose to allow us how we react to them.

[ERayR]

If you don't know or if it doesn't matter, then what is the point of God causing a natural disaster to chastise or punish the wicked? I am not trying to give you a bad time on this, I am just curious how you think God's actions actually work out in modern day times.

I do not know whether God causes natural disasters to happen to chastise the wicked. I do believe that God chooses to let them happen in certain instances. He also intervenes, for reasons known only to him, to ameliorate the consequences for some. God's actions work in modern times the same as they always have. The problem is that human expectations are that he should override all the consequences and protect us from all things but that wasn't the agreement for the mortal experience. For the mortal experience we agreed to walk by faith and be subject to any or all of the experiences, good or bad.

Edited November 2, 2012 by ERayR

[california boy]

Do you think that God really did use natural disasters to destroy the wicked or do you think it was just how people of that time viewed natural disasters?

Yes to both, depending on the particulars.

Do you believe God still uses natural disasters to warn people or destroy the wicked.

Yes. And not only to destroy, but to warn them, protect the faithful from them, protect them from further mistakes, and other purposes.

Are there any natural disasters in the past 200 years that you think were caused by God?

There are some minor ones in Church history, any other personal observation would have to be informed by the spirit of prophecy, which I am not particularly motivated to access for this purpose.

If not, then do you believe that people are less wicked today then they were in ancient times?

Regardless, I think that more people have more resources (both temporal and spiritual) that they foolishly allow to serve Satan's purposes. So the net wickedness in the earth is greater if not the number of individuals that are wicked.

If God does use natural disasters in modern times, do you think His message is lost on the wicked?

No, not all, as some repent; and as in the Book of Mormon, the "more righteous" who ar spared and repent can reach out to the "less righteous," the "less wicked" and even perhaps the "more wicked" that ermain.

If people are more wicked now than in Bible/BoM times, then wouldn't God use more natural disasters to destroy the wicked? Do you think that people that are killed in modern diasters are more wicked than the ones that are not hurt?

It seems like it is easy to understand punishment through natural disasters in olden times. It seems impossible to understand that a modern disaster is ment to punish the wicked. Your thoughts?

[california boy]

I do not know whether God causes natural disasters to happen to chastise the wicked. I do believe that God chooses to let them happen in certain instances. He also intervenes, for reasons known only to him, to ameliorate the consequences for some. God's actions work in modern times the same as they always have. The problem is that human expectations are that he should override all the consequences and protect us from all things but that wasn't the agreement for the mortal experience. For the mortal experience we agreed to walk by faith and be subject to any or all of the experiences, good or bad.

Thanks for your thoughts. I do agree with you that God does not intervene in stopping natural disasters. Like you said, it is part of the mortal experience. I am more curious how many think God actually causes natural disasters in modern times to punish or even destroy the wicked. It is that concept that I seem to be lacking understanding on.