Prophet From The Seed Of Joseph To Come

[ERayR]

He's probably as not familiar with the BoM as we are.

The measurements are weight measures in my understanding, not volume. Is it me that has missed something?

I was right the first time see post #74.

[inquiringmind]

Recipes measure ingredients. Those measuring proportions are what he is talking about. Cups, pints, quarts, etc.

But isn't the BOM the only record we have of the Nephites?

What makes you (or hagoth7) say these modern measurements we use align with ancient Nephite measurements?

I don't recall finding the words "cups," or "pints," or "quarts" in the BOM, are you saying they're there?

And are you saying that if they are, they'd have to mean the same thing we mean when we use such words today?

I mean if Alma used the word "cup," are you saying that would have to mean an 8 ounce container of some kind?

Are deliberately obtuse or is it one of your natural traits?

I don't know if I'm obtuse, but I don't understand what you or hadoth7 mean when you say our modern measurements align with Nephite measurements, or what evidence you base that statement on.

If a Nephite "sword" could be a wooden club with blade-like obsidian flakes, and a Nephite "horse" could be a deer, how do you know a Nephite cup, or pint, or quart "aligned" with anything we call by that name today?

Edited February 15, 2013 by inquiringmind

[brightpath]

ErayR,

Refresh my memory again with your information and I will be happy to address it. Nobody on this thread has addressed my 5 points that proves Gen 50:24-38, 2 Nephi 3, and 3 Nephi 21 is not referring to JS but a Lamanite prophet to come in the future. The only point many are addressing is the lineage where we differ. Nobody is addressing the other 4 points which proves it is not JS. Nobody! Somebody please do so. I am open to new information.

[ERayR]

ErayR,

Refresh my memory again with your information and I will be happy to address it. Nobody on this thread has addressed my 5 points that proves Gen 50:24-38, 2 Nephi 3, and 3 Nephi 21 is not referring to JS but a Lamanite prophet to come in the future. The only point many are addressing is the lineage where we differ. Nobody is addressing the other 4 points which proves it is not JS. Nobody! Somebody please do so. I am open to new information.

See post #65

[brightpath]

How weak Eray! The only info you provided to this thread was an earlier post about Israel's blood being in Europe. Again like the others you are focusing on lineage where we will differ. Address the 5 facts I presented in my above post. Nobody in this thread has answered them which is incredible! I believe nobody can because they are facts backed up by scripture.

[theplains]

Thank you for the response! But I wasn't speaking of Joseph Smith, rather Joseph son of Jacob

Yes. I saw your post # 48 where you mentioned, "Now with respect to the Seer many people

believe it is JS when it is not. It is a prophet that will come in the future. I present 5 facts in

the previous post to show that this Seer is not JS".

According to various publications of the church (Articles of Faith pages 280-281, Book

of Mormon - Gospel Doctrine Teacher's Manual - Lesson 7, and the introduction notes

of the Book of Mormon), 2 Nephi 3 is referring to Joseph Smith as the seer in the line

of Lehi.

If this is not true, then many people are being intentionally deceived.

Jim

[theplains]

http://www.jewishvir...07_0_06494.html

or if too long:

http://www.jewishenc...3323-birthright

Thanks for that article.

One key passage that I wanted to comment on: "The sole difference in the status of the

firstborn son as compared with that of his brothers is his right to a greater share in their

father's inheritance".

But the LDS Church has dramatically altered what it means by birthright.

According to Religion 430-431 - Doctrines of the Gospel Student Manual, the tribe of

Ephraim is greatly elevated

"Of the twelve tribes, the tribes of Joseph’s sons, Ephraim and Manasseh, will be gathered

first and then direct the other tribes in their gathering (see JST, Genesis 48:5–11;

Deuteronomy 33:16–17; D&C 133:30–39)"

"It is essential in this dispensation that Ephraim stand in his place at the head, exercising the

birthright in Israel which was given to him by direct revelation. Therefore, Ephraim must be

gathered first to prepare the way, through the gospel and the priesthood, for the rest of the

tribes of Israel when the time comes for them to be gathered to Zion".

The LDS Church's Bible Dictionary for "Ephraim" at http://scriptures.lds.org/en/bd/e/61

says "Ephraim was given the birthright in Israel (1 Chr. 5: 1-2; Jer. 31: 9), and in the last

days it has been the tribe of Ephraim’s privilege first to bear the message of the restoration

of the gospel to the world and to gather scattered Israel."

The birthright had nothing to do with the priesthood. The Levites had the priesthood in the

Old Testament, but they did not have the birthright.

Thanks,

Jim

[brightpath]

Yes they are Jim and this prophecy is being buried by the church. If you read carefully Gen 50:24-38 which is 2 Nephi 3 you will see these scriptures are not referring to JS. Refer back to the 5 facts I presented. 2 important facts in these scriptures say when the choice Seer comes the gospel and BofM will already be here and that the choice Seer will not die. JS died.

[telnetd]

Yes they are Jim and this prophecy is being buried by the church. If you read carefully Gen 50:24-38 which is 2 Nephi 3 you will see these scriptures are not referring to JS. Refer back to the 5 facts I presented. 2 important facts in these scriptures say when the choice Seer comes the gospel and BofM will already be here and that the choice Seer will not die. JS died.

Hi Brightpath,

Do you make a distinction between dying and being killed?

Gail

[brightpath]

Telnetd,

The church teaches 2 Nephi 3 which is basically Gen 50:24-38 refers to JS. In these scriptures it says the choice Seer will not die or be killed. JS was killed by a mob. Therefore it cannot be referring to JS.

[brightpath]

Jim, yes many people are being deceived by 2 Nephi 3!

[CASteinman]

In these scriptures it says the choice Seer will not die or be killed.

Bah

Loney.

[Vance]

and that the choice Seer will not die.

CFR!!!

[Duncan]

Joseph in Egypt, Isaiah, and Jesus Christ prophesied this man would appear in the last days. See 2 Nephi 3, 3 Nephi chapters 20 and 21.

it's actually me but I am eating supper right now so you'll just have to wait

[brightpath]

CAS, intelligent response now address the 5 facts I presented. Nobody has yet to do it!

[brightpath]

Vance, read Gen 50 24-38 of the JST which is basically 2 Nephi 3. Also 3 Nephi 21.

[brightpath]

Duncan, great joke eh!

[Vance]

Vance, read Gen 50 24-38 of the JST which is basically 2 Nephi 3. Also 3 Nephi 21.

So basically, you've got NOTHING!!!!!

NONE of those say what you claim they say.

[CASteinman]

Gen 50:24-38 and 3 Nephi 21

Point 1-Joseph Smith never claimed this prophesied of him. This is a big hint!

Point 2- Branch to be broken off. Lehi's seed( Lamanites). Joseph Smith is not from the broken off branch(Manasseh). Gen 50:25

Point 3-The BofM and gospel will already be here when He comes. Gen 50:30. JS restored the gospel it wasn't already here.

Point 4-This Seer will not die and will deliver Israel unto salvation. Gen 50:33. JS was killed and never delivered Israel unto salvation.

Point 5-The seer will cut off the unbelieving Gentiles and destroy them. 3 Nephi 21:11-21.

How can this be disputed!

Point 1: Argument from Ignorance

Point 2: Branches broken off are Gentiles.

Point 3: It does not say the Gospel would be there, but rather "my word". The Bible. You are also ignoring other statements.

Point 4: It does not say that he would not die. This is a nonsense claim.

Point 5: Reading Comprehension problem. This does not talk about the Seer but about Jesus the "Beloved Son". Its His Second Coming.

[Stone holm]

I always love this kind of pointless speculation. So how many Prophets do you think were prophesized to appear on the scene? Are we going to have another major charismatic and world changing Prophet arise before the final curtain falls? I would hope so.

[CASteinman]

I always love this kind of pointless speculation. So how many Prophets do you think were prophesized to appear on the scene? Are we going to have another major charismatic and world changing Prophet arise before the final curtain falls? I would hope so.

That would be so cool.

[theplains]

Are we going to have another major charismatic and world changing Prophet arise before the final curtain falls? I would hope so.

I think the next major one will be the false prophet of Revelation 19:20.

Jim

[Bill “Papa” Lee]

Joseph in Egypt, Isaiah, and Jesus Christ prophesied this man would appear in the last days. See 2 Nephi 3, 3 Nephi chapters 20 and 21.

Spirituality and being a good man of God (such as a being a Prophet) Is filled new many methbors. Josepj's followers and family's. qualify Edited March 26, 2013 by Bill “Papa” Lee

[MormonMason]

While 2 Nephi 3:24 is open to interpretation, and could possibly point to another arising in the latter-days (although the previous context could also make this point to Joseph Smith in some way), the entire rest of the previous verses refer specifically to Joseph Smith. Check the context very carefully. The entire rest of the context is the coming forth of the Book of Mormon, and the choice seer involved with that was Joseph Smith. There is no way around that. History demonstrates this.

That was the primary reason for the choice seer in the first place, and the Lord did protect him until that mission of bringing forth of the Book of Mormon and the organization of the Church in such a way as to facilitate the going forth of the Book of Mormon to all peoples was complete. Every attempt against him failed until the day that he passed the keys to the Apostles and willingly gave himself into the hands of the enemy. Before that, no one succeeded in destroying him in spite of all the very real attempts at doing so.

Joseph Smith fulfilled that portion of the prophecy (2 Nephi 3:7-21) to the letter.

[CASteinman]

I think the next major one will be the false prophet of Revelation 19:20.

Well.. assuming the related common interpretations hold.. do you think he comes around first -- or do you think the two who die preceded him in arriving on the scene and only become important in the narrative because of what happens to them?