brightpath Posted October 26, 2012 Author Posted October 26, 2012 The Great Seer will come according to the scriptures. He will be part of the gathering of Israel. When the seed of Joseph(Lamanites) build the New Jerusalem adopted Israel(Gentiles) will assist them. Once this is done the 10 tribes will come from the north and the city of Enoch will come down.
brightpath Posted October 26, 2012 Author Posted October 26, 2012 William you are focusing on lineage like Samlan. Look at the 5 facts about the Seer. He is real and he is coming to cleanse America from the unbelieving Gentile and lead the Lamanites unto salvation. Jesus Chist referred to them as the remnant of Jacob. They posses the blood of Joseph including Ephraim and Manasseh. They will build the New Jerusalem with adopted Israel(Gentiles) assisting.
brightpath Posted February 13, 2013 Author Posted February 13, 2013 5 months later and no one disputes the 5 facts I presented. It is cemented in truth that the Seer is not JS.
theplains Posted February 13, 2013 Posted February 13, 2013 That the one mighty and strong must come through the lineage of Joseph. If this is the case, then this individual must be able to claim lineage in both Ephraim and Manasseh. Because only together do they become Joseph.The January 1991 Ensign refers to Joseph as a pure Ephraimite.Jim
theplains Posted February 13, 2013 Posted February 13, 2013 Ephraim is designated the firstborn, and confirmed by covenant:Israel and Jesus are also referred to as the firstborn in other scriptural verses.What is your definition of firstborn?Thanks,Jim
Mola Ram Suda Ram Posted February 13, 2013 Posted February 13, 2013 5 months later and no one disputes the 5 facts I presented. It is cemented in truth that the Seer is not JS.People are tired of trying to reason with you. I would not look to silence that your arguments are sound. I have stopped talking with you because it was pointless so I did not really even read this thread. But have fun thinking you are correct.
William Schryver Posted February 13, 2013 Posted February 13, 2013 Only if you read and use a copy of the Book of Mormon that has been out of circulation for many years, namely, the Liverpool Edition, would you be forced by the footnotes into the idea that it could not have been Joseph Smith.I'm not familiar with this variant reading to which you refer. There is a scanned copy of the 1852 Liverpool BoM available online, but I grew weary quite quickly of trying to navigate through it, since it has no indexing function. Could you post here what it is you're talking about. (This topic has always been of some interest to me.)Thanks!
William Schryver Posted February 13, 2013 Posted February 13, 2013 (edited) Israel and Jesus are also referred to as the firstborn in other scriptural verses.What is your definition of firstborn?Thanks,JimI simply mean that Ephraim was designated the firstborn by Jacob, and blessed as the birthright son, as recorded here:Genesis 485 ¶And now thy two sons, Ephraim and Manasseh, which were born unto thee in the land of Egypt before I came unto thee into Egypt, are mine; as Reuben and Simeon, they shall be mine.6 And thy issue, which thou begettest after them, shall be thine, and shall be called after the name of their brethren in their inheritance.8 And Israel beheld Joseph’s sons, and said, Who are these?9 And Joseph said unto his father, They are my sons, whom God hath given me in this place. And he said, Bring them, I pray thee, unto me, and I will bless them.10 Now the eyes of Israel were dim for age, so that he could not see. And he brought them near unto him; and he kissed them, and embraced them.11 And Israel said unto Joseph, I had not thought to see thy face: and, lo, God hath shewed me also thy seed.12 And Joseph brought them out from between his knees, and he bowed himself with his face to the earth.13 And Joseph took them both, Ephraim in his right hand toward Israel’s left hand, and Manasseh in his left hand toward Israel’s right hand, and brought them near unto him.14 And Israel stretched out his right hand, and laid it upon Ephraim’s head, who was the younger, and his left hand upon Manasseh’s head, guiding his hands wittingly; for Manasseh was the firstborn.17 And when Joseph saw that his father laid his right hand upon the head of Ephraim, it displeased him: and he held up his father’s hand, to remove it from Ephraim’s head unto Manasseh’s head.18 And Joseph said unto his father, Not so, my father: for this is the firstborn; put thy right hand upon his head.19 And his father refused, and said, I know it, my son, I know it: he also shall become a people, and he also shall be great: but truly his younger brother shall be greater than he, and his seed shall become a multitude of nations.20 And he blessed them that day, saying, In thee shall Israel bless, saying, God make thee as Ephraim and as Manasseh: and he set Ephraim before Manasseh.Thus Ephraim and Manasseh are claimed by Jacob as his heirs, and Ephraim is designated the firstborn, birthright son.Simple as that. Edited February 13, 2013 by William Schryver
Alan Posted February 13, 2013 Posted February 13, 2013 Re-joining this thread late.I jumped in too early before and didn't read the OP properly.I believe that the person to whom the scripture refers is a decendent of Joseph (Nephi's brother - therefore a Lehite) and is the one referred to as the One Mighty and Strong in the D&C. It appears the church will become disorganised in some way and this person will step forward to restore order.
Calm Posted February 14, 2013 Posted February 14, 2013 I'm not familiar with this variant reading to which you refer. There is a scanned copy of the 1852 Liverpool BoM available online, but I grew weary quite quickly of trying to navigate through it, since it has no indexing function. Could you post here what it is you're talking about. (This topic has always been of some interest to me.)Thanks!Mormonmason hasn't been posting for a bit so may not see this.
theplains Posted February 14, 2013 Posted February 14, 2013 I simply mean that Ephraim was designated the firstborn by Jacob, and blessed as the birthright son, as recorded here:Thus Ephraim and Manasseh are claimed by Jacob as his heirs, and Ephraim is designated the firstborn, birthright son.Simple as that.Simple to say but you did not explain it.Since Ephraim was born second, obviously firstborn does not mean first born. And Israelwas not born first either.Would you explain what is a "firstborn birthright son" and apply it to Israel/Jesus as theyare also called firstborn? What does the birthright entitle a person to?Thanks,Jim
Calm Posted February 14, 2013 Posted February 14, 2013 (edited) http://www.jewishvir...07_0_06494.htmlor if too long:http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/3323-birthright Edited February 14, 2013 by calmoriah 1
brightpath Posted February 14, 2013 Author Posted February 14, 2013 This prophecy did not come from the Liverpool edition. It came from JS himself. Who were the first missionaries sent to first? The Lamanites! Orson Pratt put the first footnotes in the BofM under the direction of JS. He put Indian prophet in 2 Nephi 3. God also had JS retranslate Gen 50: 24-38. Why because this scripture refers to the choice Seer to come. Again many if you are addressing the lineage thing. This is where we differ. I pointed out 5 other facts about the Seer that proves it is not JS.
inquiringmind Posted February 14, 2013 Posted February 14, 2013 There is evidence that suggests Hagoth's largest ship sailed north into the Gulf of Mexico, and ended up in northern Europe. Something as simple as the measurements we use to make bread today align with known Nephite measurements, and we inherited those measurements from the same region of Europe where Hagoth is said to have arrived. The suggestion is that Joseph Smith was simply a descendant of Lehi's son Joseph.You mean measurements of flour, yeast, and water?2 questions.1.) Is there a recipe for making bread in the book of Mormon?2.) With or without such a recipe, why would we need to "inherit" those measurements from anyone.Wouldn't anyone who wanted to end up with a loaf of bread (i.e. Europeans, Myans, Nephites. anyone) pretty much have to start out with the same measurements we use? 1
ERayR Posted February 14, 2013 Posted February 14, 2013 (edited) 5 months later and no one disputes the 5 facts I presented. It is cemented in truth that the Seer is not JS.In your own mind. Some of us choose not to engage you because of your habit of ignoring or brushing aside information you do not agree with. Enjoy your self proclaimed victory. Edited February 14, 2013 by ERayR
ERayR Posted February 14, 2013 Posted February 14, 2013 You mean measurements of flour, yeast, and water?2 questions.1.) Is there a recipe for making bread in the book of Mormon?2.) With or without such a recipe, why would we need to "inherit" those measurements from anyone.Wouldn't anyone who wanted to end up with a loaf of bread (i.e. Europeans, Myans, Nephites. anyone) pretty much have to start out with the same measurements we use?Are deliberately obtuse or is it one of your natural traits? 1
Thunderfire Posted February 14, 2013 Posted February 14, 2013 The January 1991 Ensign refers to Joseph as a pure Ephraimite.JimThank you for the response! But I wasn't speaking of Joseph Smith, rather Joseph son of Jacob
inquiringmind Posted February 14, 2013 Posted February 14, 2013 (edited) Are deliberately obtuse or is it one of your natural traits?hgoth7 saidSomething as simple as the measurements we use to make bread today align with known Nephite measurements, and we inherited those measurements from the same region of Europe where Hagoth is said to have arrivedAssuming it's not as unavoidable as the second question implies, how could we possibly know that the measurements we use to make bread today align with Nephite measurements" unless there's a bread recipe in the BOM or the D&C?You mean measurements of flour, yeast, and water?2 questions.1.) Is there a recipe for making bread in the book of Mormon?2.) With or without such a recipe, why would we need to "inherit" those measurements from anyone.Wouldn't anyone who wanted to end up with a loaf of bread (i.e. Europeans, Myans, Nephites. anyone) pretty much have to start out with the same measurements we use? Edited February 14, 2013 by inquiringmind 1
volgadon Posted February 14, 2013 Posted February 14, 2013 Are deliberately obtuse or is it one of your natural traits?Oops, I didn't mean to give a rep point on this.
volgadon Posted February 14, 2013 Posted February 14, 2013 hgoth7 saidAssuming it's not as unavoidable as the second question implies, how could we possibly know that the measurements we use to make bread today align with Nephite measurements" unless there's a bread recipe in the BOM or the D&C?I agree with you.
ERayR Posted February 14, 2013 Posted February 14, 2013 hgoth7 saidAssuming it's not as unavoidable as the second question implies, how could we possibly know that the measurements we use to make bread today align with Nephite measurements" unless there's a bread recipe in the BOM or the D&C?Recipes measure ingredients. Those measuring proportions are what he is talking about. Cups, pints, quarts, etc.
Calm Posted February 14, 2013 Posted February 14, 2013 (edited) Are deliberately obtuse or is it one of your natural traits?He's probably as not familiar with the BoM as we are.The measurements are weight measures in my understanding, not volume. Is it me that has missed something? Edited February 14, 2013 by calmoriah 1
ERayR Posted February 14, 2013 Posted February 14, 2013 He's probably as not familiar with the BoM as we are.The measurements are weight measures in my understanding, not volume. Is it me that has missed something?As I understand it the measurements for gold and silver are weight measures and for grains they are volume measurements correlated to the precious metals weight measurements.
inquiringmind Posted February 15, 2013 Posted February 15, 2013 As I understand it the measurements for gold and silver are weight measures and for grains they are volume measurements correlated to the precious metals weight measurements.And how do we know they "align" to the measurements we use to make bread today? 1
ERayR Posted February 15, 2013 Posted February 15, 2013 And how do we know they "align" to the measurements we use to make bread today?Forget the bread!!! He was using bread as an example of a common activity. The measurements and their relation and ratios to each other used today are derived from old English measures and ratios which match up to Nephite measures and ratios.
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