Tacenda Posted August 21, 2012 Posted August 21, 2012 I don't think I have ever seen what your grief with the Church was. Is the above a summary or is there a post somewhere that you have described it?I've never really intro'd here just jumped in and it started out badly at first with putting out my issues with JS polygamy and people thinking how nuts it was that I only learned of it a few yrs. ago.
why me Posted August 21, 2012 Author Posted August 21, 2012 Because it is unnecessary. I don't need to say it out loud for my own peace of mind or self aggrandizement.And my testimony should have no influence on anyone else's or their doubts.My testimony is no one's business.I can respect your personal decision. But relating your testimony to a friend and your own personal spiritual experiences to a friend who has doubts may help that friend see a different way of looking at it all. That was my point. For example, where would we all be if the 11 witnesses never bore their testimony or only did it in the front of the book of mormon? Many never tired of relating their spiritual experience to others to help the see what they considered to be a game changer in their lives. 1
Damien the Leper Posted August 21, 2012 Posted August 21, 2012 The Lord approves of and encourages us to bear testimony. Its not merely a cultural thing.Cool. He approves. Doesn't mean that I'm going to do it. Good for those who choose to do so. I'm glad they are willing to share and I hope it serves them well.
CASteinman Posted August 21, 2012 Posted August 21, 2012 I've never really intro'd here just jumped in and it started out badly at first with putting out my issues with JS polygamy and people thinking how nuts it was that I only learned of it a few yrs. ago.Oh yeah... I remember that. (It is kinda odd). Your story motivated me to ask in Church -- a wonderful lady that I know who has raised some very fine daughters -- if they knew that Joseph Smith was a polygamist. She was not sure and asked her daughter who came up. Her daughter could not care at all. It was utterly irrelevant to her and she said she might have known it but maybe not -- never gave a moment of thought -- and then she moved on to a discussion she cared about.
Tacenda Posted August 21, 2012 Posted August 21, 2012 I totally understand that need to explore (I have always been a seeker), and I think it's, often, healthy and can even give us a new appreciation of what we already have. I hope you do get that opportunity, someday, soon.Thanks Libs, maybe I do need to take the leap and see if the grass is really greener. Not every week just once in awhile. 1
CASteinman Posted August 21, 2012 Posted August 21, 2012 Cool. He approves. Doesn't mean that I'm going to do it. Good for those who choose to do so. I'm glad they are willing to share and I hope it serves them well.Well.. not just that He approves... its a bit more than that.
CASteinman Posted August 21, 2012 Posted August 21, 2012 Thanks Libs, maybe I do need to take the leap and see if the grass is really greener. Not every week just once in awhile.Relative to greener --- are you aware of the Pew Survey on religion? Mormons, it turns out, know more on average about religious matters than any other Christian religion. As I recall Jews and Mormons and Atheists knew the most.
Tacenda Posted August 21, 2012 Posted August 21, 2012 Oh yeah... I remember that. (It is kinda odd). Your story motivated me to ask in Church -- a wonderful lady that I know who has raised some very fine daughters -- if they knew that Joseph Smith was a polygamist. She was not sure and asked her daughter who came up. Her daughter could not care at all. It was utterly irrelevant to her and she said she might have known it but maybe not -- never gave a moment of thought -- and then she moved on to a discussion she cared about.I do agree with her daughter and maybe it's better to look ahead and not in the past.
Damien the Leper Posted August 21, 2012 Posted August 21, 2012 I can respect your personal decision. But relating your testimony to a friend and your own personal spiritual experiences to a friend who has doubts may help that friend see a different way of looking at it all. That was my point. For example, where would we all be if the 11 witnesses never bore their testimony or only did it in the front of the book of mormon? Many never tired of relating their spiritual experience to others to help the see what they considered to be a game changer in their lives.Not even the 11 witnesses testimonies have any bearing on my beliefs concerning the Book of Mormon. Neither theirs or JS are qualifiers for my testimony.
ERayR Posted August 21, 2012 Posted August 21, 2012 (edited) Take it with a grain of salt, as I am not LDS or exLDS, but I think of some sort of LDS pamphlet I was given once. Showed JS sitting alone by the fire with some sort of spectacles with the BoM, I think the general idea was it was a depiction of JS translating it.That doesn't seem historically accurate but it was in a CoJCoLDS publication.There are likely a lot of other examples that fall along that line.I think it's the whole whitewashing thing that would likely rub a person raw. No one likes to come to the idea they have been sold a bill of goods by an organization that claims to be the one true Church.Mudcat I honestly do not see what method of translation is depicted. It has no bearing on what was translated and what we have. Whatever the method we have the testimony of Joseph Smith that it was by the power of God that it was done. I think that when one has a problem with a reported translation method it is personal biases getting in the way. When some commune with God they do so on their knees in fervent prayer. With me it is in study with a prayer in my heart on sometimes verbalized but I can assure you that his communication is in the form of a still small voice or understanding beyond my capabilities (believe me I am aware of my limitations) I know that I have had communication. So whether it was a rock in the hat, a peep stone, Urim and Thumim or fervent prayer, what is the problem with how it was done. It is/was done by the gift and power of god. Edited August 21, 2012 by ERayR
Damien the Leper Posted August 21, 2012 Posted August 21, 2012 Well.. not just that He approves... its a bit more than that.It's not a commandment nor is it a covenant I have made. No need to make it more than it is.
CASteinman Posted August 21, 2012 Posted August 21, 2012 It's not a commandment nor is it a covenant I have made. No need to make it more than it is.Actually yeah it is a commandment. A commandment with a wonderful promise.But everyone gets to choose how they observe things. Its part of the plan. There are no "coerced commandments". But blessings follow obedience and most of us need these blessings.
CASteinman Posted August 21, 2012 Posted August 21, 2012 Mudcat I honestly do not see what method of translation is depicted. I suspect the picture he was remembering is the picture of "Joseph reaching James chapter 1" or something to that effect. Not translation.
blackstrap Posted August 21, 2012 Posted August 21, 2012 Some of us prefer to hide our candle under a bushel so as not to expose it to the winds of discord or mockery. 1
Damien the Leper Posted August 21, 2012 Posted August 21, 2012 Actually yeah it is a commandment. A commandment with a wonderful promise.But everyone gets to choose how they observe things. Its part of the plan. There are no "coerced commandments". But blessings follow obedience and most of us need these blessings.Please show me where God commands that we bear our testimony and please use the Standard Works.
Tacenda Posted August 21, 2012 Posted August 21, 2012 (edited) Relative to greener --- are you aware of the Pew Survey on religion? Mormons, it turns out, know more on average about religious matters than any other Christian religion. As I recall Jews and Mormons and Atheists knew the most.It could be I'm tired of the talks in church etc. the discussions not always centering on the Savior. I really try and hear it in the talks and lessons, I just don't though. It's like we already know about Him and now it's time to move onto the temple or missionary work. Don't get me wrong here, Jesus is in there somewhere, I just want more of Him only. Edited August 21, 2012 by Tacenda
CASteinman Posted August 21, 2012 Posted August 21, 2012 (edited) Please show me where God commands that we bear our testimony and please use the Standard Works.D&C 84:"... Your minds in times past have been darkened because of unbelief, and because you have treated lightly the things you have received— Which vanity and unbelief have brought the whole church under condemnation. And this condemnation resteth upon the children of Zion, even all. And they shall remain under this condemnation until they repent and remember the new covenant, even the Book of Mormon and the former commandments which I have given them, not only to say, but to do according to that which I have written— That they may bring forth fruit meet for their Father’s kingdom; otherwise there remaineth a scourge and judgment to be poured out upon the children of Zion.For shall the children of the kingdom pollute my holy land? Verily, I say unto you, Nay. Verily, verily, I say unto you who now hear my words, which are my voice, blessed are ye inasmuch as you receive these things; for I will forgive you of your sins with this commandment—that you remain steadfast in your minds in solemnity and the spirit of prayer, in bearing testimony to all the world of those things which are communicated unto you.Therefore, ago ye into all the world; and unto whatsoever place ye cannot go ye shall send, that the testimony may go from you into all the world unto every creature." Edited August 21, 2012 by CASteinman
ERayR Posted August 21, 2012 Posted August 21, 2012 It could be I'm tired of the talks in church etc. the discussions not always centering on the Savior. I really try and hear it in the talks and lessons, I just don't though. It's like we already know about Him and now it's time to move onto the temple or missionary work. Don't get me wrong here, Jesus is in there somewhere, I just want more of Him only.I am scheduled to speak in church next Sunday and my topic is choices. Very little mention of the Savior but it is relevant in as much as the choices we make determine the direction we are going.
why me Posted August 21, 2012 Author Posted August 21, 2012 It could be I'm tired of the talks in church etc. the discussions not always centering on the Savior. I really try and hear it in the talks and lessons, I just don't though. It's like we already know about Him and now it's time to move onto the temple or missionary work. Don't get me wrong here, Jesus is in there somewhere, I just want more of Him only.Jesus is constantly in the Ensign and in the church manuals through the teachings of the prophets. But mormons do have more to talk about than do most churches when it comes to things outside of him: temple, missionary work, baptism, etc. But even in these talks Jesus is there in the background since the temple is the house of the lord and missionary work is done to bring people closer to jesus etc. 1
CASteinman Posted August 21, 2012 Posted August 21, 2012 (edited) I just want more of Him only.That's really not anyone else's fault but your own. It may be true that you have a ward with other frail and faulty human beings who look beyond or short of the mark. But this is not an excuse for you to do the same.In addition, there may be more of Christ in these things than you are detecting -- and that too, would not be someone else's fault.Take Temple Work. Or Missionary Work. They are His Work. Jesus does not want us just to sit around talking about Him. There is no heaven above where we sit around strolling in gardens and strumming harps with nothing to do. All the Universe is at Work. In the Gospel according to Thomas Jesus is quoted as saying "Strike Open a Rock and I am there" "Split a piece of wood, and I am there. Lift a stone, and you will find me there." I'm not sure He really said such a thing in quite that way, but it is not out of harmony with the Spirit of God being in all and through all things -- the Light of Christ. Edited August 21, 2012 by CASteinman 1
why me Posted August 21, 2012 Author Posted August 21, 2012 It could be I'm tired of the talks in church etc. the discussions not always centering on the Savior.And you can also give a great talk about the savior and what he means for you in your life. I am sure that the members would love to hear it. Maybe you need to set an example by giving such a talk. And it may give you emotional peace. 1
Tacenda Posted August 21, 2012 Posted August 21, 2012 (edited) And you can also give a great talk about the savior and what he means for you in your life. I am sure that the members would love to hear it. Maybe you need to set an example by giving such a talk. And it may give you emotional peace.I don't know about a talk in church but I did give a RS lesson on a fast sunday in the beginnings of my faith crisis, where the topic was of my choosing. The topic I chose was on having a personal relationship with the Savior. I showed the following youtube, which was awesome and I spoke on the talk given be James E. Faust called "A Personal Relationship with the Savior". http://www.lds.org/general-conference/1976/10/a-personal-relationship-with-the-savior?lang=eng&query=personal+relationship+faustBut along with these two websites I really wanted to share this Youtube with the RS sisters but decided I better not. I still love this portrayal of the Savior in this youtube here: It isn't the kind of preaching we're use to in our church but it sure touched my soul. Edited August 21, 2012 by Tacenda
GingerRed Posted August 21, 2012 Posted August 21, 2012 I am scheduled to speak in church next Sunday and my topic is choices. Very little mention of the Savior but it is relevant in as much as the choices we make determine the direction we are going.You could make the point that the Savior CHOSE to do His Father's will. He didn't have to. He had free agency too.
Bart Burk Posted August 21, 2012 Posted August 21, 2012 (edited) All I can say is that every time I start thinking about returning to the LDS Church it is very hard to get beyond the evidence ... and that is all I can say about this topic. Edited August 21, 2012 by Bart Burk
djholmess Posted August 21, 2012 Posted August 21, 2012 (edited) I don't know about a talk in church but I did give a RS lesson on a fast sunday in the beginnings of my faith crisis, where the topic was of my choosing. The topic I chose was on having a personal relationship with the Savior. I showed the following youtube, which was awesome and I spoke on the talk given be James E. Faust called "A Personal Relationship with the Savior".Tacenda,If you liked that video you might like these;A shorter one: (there is actual talking after the first minute)And a longer one[media=]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlGCjawKSFc Edited August 21, 2012 by djholmess
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