robuchan Posted August 20, 2012 Posted August 20, 2012 1. An exmo used to believe certain things taught by the church. The exmo now no longer believes them. He feels deceived. 2. The exmo believes he has suffered a loss due to his time investment and other sacrifices made due to former belief in church. 3. The exmo may have ongoing damages, such as persecution from LDS, damaged relationships, damaged status in the community, employment or financial damages.
ERayR Posted August 20, 2012 Posted August 20, 2012 I'm sure you never get angry? I think you are probably right. I seem to angry from time to time, and it doesn't seem to do me much good. So now have me moved in this thread from why exmo's get angry, to whether or not the anger is justified, and now to whether or not it's productive? I think I could concede pretty easily that it's not productive.Don't be making assumptions on your faulty reasoning. As a matter of fact I do get angry and for selfish reasons. Still doesn't change the nature of things. I must qualify that there is certain anger that is justified. For instance someone hurting children IMNSHO is justifiable. 1
ERayR Posted August 20, 2012 Posted August 20, 2012 1. An exmo used to believe certain things taught by the church. The exmo now no longer believes them. He feels deceived. 2. The exmo believes he has suffered a loss due to his time investment and other sacrifices made due to former belief in church.3. The exmo may have ongoing damages, such as persecution from LDS, damaged relationships, damaged status in the community, employment or financial damages.All of which are subjective and centered on self.
Libs Posted August 20, 2012 Posted August 20, 2012 We always believe our anger is justified, in the moment.It's a very human emotion and we all experience it for a variety of reasons. Anger is not a good place to take up permanent residence, that's for sure (justified or not). It can be very damaging, both psychologically and physically. 1
robuchan Posted August 20, 2012 Posted August 20, 2012 All of which are subjective and centered on self.I could agree with that.
Maestrophil Posted August 20, 2012 Posted August 20, 2012 Here is my $.02I was divorced a little while ago after 15 years of a Temple marriage and 3 kids. My wife had been cheating on me for over a year, and it had all come to light in a very painful and messy way. I was deceived, humiliated, scared and violated. I was angry!Now, 3 years later, I am remarried to a wonderful woman, I have custody of my kids, and my life is on the mend. My anger over what happened is dissipated because I have been blessed with something better. If I stay angry at my ex-wife and obsess over her while she has moved on to marry her adulterous partner and likely doesn't give me a second thought, then the problem is with me, not with her. Likewise, I understand ex-members being angry at first, but if it lasts years... well, get some help and get over it. especially if you think you have found a truer, better way of life. 2
why me Posted August 20, 2012 Author Posted August 20, 2012 1. An exmo used to believe certain things taught by the church. The exmo now no longer believes them. He feels deceived. 2. The exmo believes he has suffered a loss due to his time investment and other sacrifices made due to former belief in church.3. The exmo may have ongoing damages, such as persecution from LDS, damaged relationships, damaged status in the community, employment or financial damages.If you look at your three points, especially number one you will see the believes. However, the word believes needs proof. If I believe that the church is true, and someone asks me why I would say it is because I received a spiritual witness that it is true. But if I say that Joseph conned me and so I left the church, I would need proof of the con. I can't just say because I believe it is so.Both one and two are dependent not on proof but on belief. There is no reason for one or two to cause anger. It would be more of a disappointment. However anger can be a very compensating emotion and it can also be very addictive.
why me Posted August 20, 2012 Author Posted August 20, 2012 Here is my $.02I was divorced a little while ago after 15 years of a Temple marriage and 3 kids. My wife had been cheating on me for over a year, and it had all come to light in a very painful and messy way. I was deceived, humiliated, scared and violated. I was angry!Now, 3 years later, I am remarried to a wonderful woman, I have custody of my kids, and my life is on the mend. My anger over what happened is dissipated because I have been blessed with something better. If I stay angry at my ex-wife and obsess over her while she has moved on to marry her adulterous partner and likely doesn't give me a second thought, then the problem is with me, not with her.There is a difference. You were angry at your exwife because you caught her cheating. You had proof. Would you be just as angry based on a feeling or speculation? I don't think so. Exmormons become angry based on speculation and a feeling. But not on proof such as you had. This is why I said that I can understand anger if it were proven that Joseph Smith was a con artist with the book of mormon. Then, anger would be justified and if the church leaders knew it were a con, then anger toward them would be justified too.
Somebodyz Posted August 20, 2012 Posted August 20, 2012 We always believe our anger is justified, in the moment.It's a very human emotion and we all experience it for a variety of reasons.Anger is not a good place to take up permanent residence, that's for sure (justified or not). It can be very damaging, both psychologically and physically.Good point. If a person truly believes they have been wronged they could feel angry, but keeping that anger up, takes energy and time. Even years later, some claim to be so angry, it doesn't sound healthy at all and imo sounds strange. 1
zerinus Posted August 20, 2012 Posted August 20, 2012 (edited) Perhaps some exmormons are angry because of the condescension directed at them from some faithful LDS who say or write things like…Hi Thinking. If you were thinking that I could care less about what ex-Mormons think of what I am saying about them, then think again! Edited August 20, 2012 by zerinus
why me Posted August 20, 2012 Author Posted August 20, 2012 We always believe our anger is justified, in the moment.The point would be to convince someone that their anger may not be justified. There are cases of unjustified anger. if exmormons feel that Joseph conned them, they have no justification for anger. We would all be in a terrible predicament if we expressed anger on speculation, heresay, hypotheticals, or because someone said we should be angry.
why me Posted August 20, 2012 Author Posted August 20, 2012 Good point. If a person truly believes they have been wronged they could feel angry, but keeping that anger up, takes energy and time. Even years later, some claim to be so angry, it doesn't sound healthy at all and imo sounds strange.Especially if it is unjustified. How can I be angry over someone's speculation? Or my own speculation that I have been deceived.
Libs Posted August 20, 2012 Posted August 20, 2012 The point would be to convince someone that their anger may not be justified. There are cases of unjustified anger. if exmormons feel that Joseph conned them, they have no justification for anger. We would all be in a terrible predicament if we expressed anger on speculation, heresay, hypotheticals, or because someone said we should be angry.Well, basically, I agree. But, I don't think you can "undo" someone's anger by simply stating it's unjustified. You have to give reasonable explanations, as to why you believe it's unjustified. The person may, then, accept that....or not...depending on whether or not they find your explanation viable. 1
Somebodyz Posted August 20, 2012 Posted August 20, 2012 Hi Thinking. If you were thinking that I could care less about what ex-Mormons think of what I am saying about them, then think again! ex-Mormons, are worthy of our kindness, just as much as members or non members are. We should care.Are you thinking ex-Mormon = anti-Mormon? 1
Libs Posted August 20, 2012 Posted August 20, 2012 Even anti-Mormons should be treated with kindness. Kindness is one of the "fruits of the spirit".
Somebodyz Posted August 20, 2012 Posted August 20, 2012 Even anti-Mormons should be treated with kindness. Kindness is one of the "fruits of the spirit".Didn't mean to imply anything different.
why me Posted August 20, 2012 Author Posted August 20, 2012 People who choose to reject the testimony that they presumably received when they joined the Church, and now accuse Joseph Smith of conning them with the Book of Mormon surely are deluding themselves. They came into the Church of their own free will and choice, no one was holding a gun to their heads. So why blame Joseph Smith. The truths that he taught in Joseph Smith- History is there for the world to see and surely he was not trying to con anyone, he was simply conveying the truths he had been taught by Deity and Ministering Angels.This also takes faith and speculation. However, it does contain a spiritual confirmation that cannot be proven. But there is no negative anger in it. Just a good experience that makes one peaceful and content. For angry exmormons the show anger about about being deceived by Joseph Smith, claiming that he was a con artist. One contains peace and harmony and the other contains anger and frustration. It is the second emotion that I have a problem with because it is not based on fact. The first I have no problem with because it as positives in it.
why me Posted August 20, 2012 Author Posted August 20, 2012 Well, basically, I agree. But, I don't think you can "undo" someone's anger by simply stating it's unjustified. You have to give reasonable explanations, as to why you believe it's unjustified. The person may, then, accept that....or not...depending on whether or not they find your explanation viable.That is the purpose of the thread. Now I just need support from others, I think that once the anger sets in and they read more from exmormon boards, the anger is very difficult to take away. Those boards fuel anger.
robuchan Posted August 20, 2012 Posted August 20, 2012 If you look at your three points, especially number one you will see the believes. However, the word believes needs proof. If I believe that the church is true, and someone asks me why I would say it is because I received a spiritual witness that it is true. But if I say that Joseph conned me and so I left the church, I would need proof of the con. I can't just say because I believe it is so.Both one and two are dependent not on proof but on belief. There is no reason for one or two to cause anger. It would be more of a disappointment. However anger can be a very compensating emotion and it can also be very addictive.I don't think you've thought through your point very well. If a loved one is raped, and someone is convicted, and you believe he is guilty, you're going to be angry at that person. If he is acquitted due to lack of proof, that's not going to change your feelings much if you believe there is enough evidence for you to believe he's guilty.If your mom puts out two cookies for you and your brother. And by the time you get to the plate, there are no cookies left. You're going to be pissed at your brother, no matter how much he denies it and no matter how little evidence there is that he stole your cookie.
teddyaware Posted August 20, 2012 Posted August 20, 2012 robucan, You wrote,1. An exmo used to believe certain things taught by the church. The exmo now no longer believes them. He feels deceived.2. The exmo believes he has suffered a loss due to his time investment and other sacrifices made due to former belief in church.3. The exmo may have ongoing damages, such as persecution from LDS, damaged relationships, damaged status in the community, employment or financial damages.I say what I'm about to say with respect: The time has come for you to move beyond this self-imposed emotional prison you've put yourself in and move on to a better place. Do you think you're the only person who's ever had "the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune" cast your way? You have freedom of choice so you can say anything you want to say, do anything you want to do, think anything you want to think, and work hard to try and be anything you want to be.I'm sure there are millions of people throughout the centuries who have overcome problems and issues in their lives much greater than the ones you're now dealing with. They moved on, workrd in their might, and made new lives of satisfaction and happiness for themselves. You are not unusual; welcome to the human race.Stop wallowing in self pity and be a man! Ask yourself this: "If I found myself in a the middle of a pictched battle against an evil enemy -- an enemy that wanted to destroy you and everyone you loved -- am I the type that would turntail and run?" "Or am I the kind of man who would stand and fight bravely to protect and preserve all I hold dear?" If you're like the latter, fight on and try in your might to win. If you're like the former, there's nothing to help you until you decide to change your attitude and turn the lemons you believe you're stuck with into delicious lemonade. It can be done! Others have overcome far worse challenges and difficulties than the ones you're now dealing with, and they came out triumphantly on top.Move on, good man, move on! Steel your resolve and get on with the business of life! There are no 'magic bullets' to find on this board that will finally slay your inner dragons. The only person you have any right to change is youself. So get on with it, and check back in five years when you can return here with joy and inner peace to let us know you succeeded in your quest to change and find healing, happiness and a new life of love. What you're doing on here is an exercise frustration -- and frustrated people are rarely happy people.
Somebodyz Posted August 20, 2012 Posted August 20, 2012 I don't think you've thought through your point very well. If a loved one is raped, and someone is convicted, and you believe he is guilty, you're going to be angry at that person. If he is acquitted due to lack of proof, that's not going to change your feelings much if you believe there is enough evidence for you to believe he's guilty.If your mom puts out two cookies for you and your brother. And by the time you get to the plate, there are no cookies left. You're going to be pissed at your brother, no matter how much he denies it and no matter how little evidence there is that he stole your cookie.Eventually you have to let go of the anger and move on. To hold on to that anger is damaging and futile. Personally I find the power of forgiveness, helps with the moving on. 1
robuchan Posted August 20, 2012 Posted August 20, 2012 What you're doing on here is an exercise frustration -- and frustrated people are rarely happy people.I'm generally a happy person. I mentioned on the first page that I have overall positive feelings toward the church but can sympathize and understand why an exmo would have anger. But I'm curious exactly what you meant by the last sentence. What do mean by "what I'm doing here"? What is your perception of what I'm doing here? In my mind I'm just keeping up on all the apologetics issues and bantering.
robuchan Posted August 20, 2012 Posted August 20, 2012 Eventually you have to let go of the anger and move on. To hold on to that anger is damaging and futile. Personally I find the power of forgiveness, helps with the moving on.I don't disagree with that.
yootaw Posted August 20, 2012 Posted August 20, 2012 Clearly moving past the anger is the best thing. But this thread seems to be more about condemning the anger rather than helping people move past it. That, I think is not very helpful in encouraging people to move past the anger.
happy Posted August 20, 2012 Posted August 20, 2012 So robuchan, are you equally mad at L, Ron Hubbard? Sun Myung Moon? Buddha?Or is it only Joseph Smith because that is the one you bought into?
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