Exmormon Anger Toward The Lds Church.

[CASteinman]

I think you're way overthinking it.

Compare it to:

--being angry at an ex who you loved and cheated on you

--being angry at being laid off by a company that didn't appreciate you

--being angry at someone who you trusted in an investment and conned you out of money

--being angry at giving your whole Saturday to help a poor neighbor put in their grass and then see them wasting money on frivolous things

--being angry with yourself maybe for not protecting yourself properly in any of these instances

--being angry that these parties are out there maybe harming others

Maybe the anger stays a while. Maybe just a grrr that made me mad and then you move on.

Overthinking might be my way.

Without going into details of my life --- which I do not dwell on anyway -- I have experienced perhaps more than half of those things -- and did not get angry. At least, I don't think I did. I am not able to detect it anyway, but that might be a bit like pride eh? Anyway, I sort of don't believe in anger. I don't give it ground. So, to understand it... I kinda have to overthink things.

[CASteinman]

As a man thinketh in his heart, so is he. -- Jesus

[ERayR]

I think you're way overthinking it.

Compare it to:

--being angry at an ex who you loved and cheated on you

--being angry at being laid off by a company that didn't appreciate you

--being angry at someone who you trusted in an investment and conned you out of money

--being angry at giving your whole Saturday to help a poor neighbor put in their grass and then see them wasting money on frivolous things

--being angry with yourself maybe for not protecting yourself properly in any of these instances

--being angry that these parties are out there maybe harming others

Maybe the anger stays a while. Maybe just a grrr that made me mad and then you move on.

Numbers 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 I would say comes from an egocentric outlook. Number 6 I would classify in the righteous anger category. I find myself indulging sometimes in the 1 thru 5 group.

Edited August 21, 2012 by ERayR

[Damien the Leper]

As long as the person answers the temple recommend questions in the correct way a recommend is not withheld unless he/she is lying and the bishop knows it.

This proposes a philosophical and moral dilemma. "Correct" is the operative word in you post. "Correct" according to whom? I would rather a person be fully honest in the TR interview by denying things they do not know to be true or believe than to respond "correctly".

But overall, I'm not at odds with your response.

[ERayR]

This proposes a philosophical and moral dilemma. "Correct" is the operative word in you post. "Correct" according to whom? I would rather a person be fully honest in the TR interview by denying things they do not know to be true or believe than to respond "correctly".

But overall, I'm not at odds with your response.

Yes one should be fully honest in answering those questions but they, after all, are a self assessment and unless the one asking the questions has knowledge to the contrary the answers are not questioned.

Edited August 21, 2012 by ERayR

[why me]

Thanks for the lecture, but I'm doing just fine in my life. I enjoy my life, and I enjoy the time I spend here.

I am glad that you enjoy the time that you spend here.

[Libs]

Tacenda, I just wanted to say, I am really sorry you are being treated that way. It is very difficult to keep from having angry feelings, at times, when we are being treated badly.

[Damien the Leper]

Yes one should be fully honest in answering those questions but they, after all, are a self assessment and unless the one asking the questions has knowledge to the contrary the answers are not questioned.

I agree. However, personal testimony is of no concern to anyone but the individual. For example, I will probably never bear my testimony in church or in public again. My testimony is mine and should not be a means to help guide or sway someone into having a testimony as well. JS testimony has no bearing on mine. His testimony experiences are of no concern to me.

[ERayR]

ERayR, I didn't know you had your own struggles too.

Thankfully no longer is one of them doubts about the church or the gospel it teaches.

[CASteinman]

I've been going through this for several years and could write a book on it. But chose just a few examples.

Sorry about that... but I suspect there is more going on in your situation than just disbelief on your part.

[why me]

Was this thread an honest inquiry into why exmo's feel anger, or was is a baiting to get an exmo to admit some anger and then bash him for it? I failed, obviously. Well done, guys.

When the chuch is as important to someone as it was to me for a long time, and you come to find it is a false, it is confusing. It takes some time to sort it all out.

This thread was an honest inquiry into why exmormons have anger and leave the church. And I have given my ideas many times about it.

And you hit on it very well when you said that you found it false and have confusion toward the church because of it. I think that there are quite a few exmormons on the internet feel the same way as you. However, I can understand confusion because it is based on your own assumption but i cannot understand anger based on assumptions toward an institution that these exmormons may also claim they feel.

You claimed the church is false as if it were a fact. I see no fact. I see an assumption. Facts should be based on evidence and when it comes to the lds church, claims of falsehood should be based on facts. If someone claims that Joseph Smith conned them because of the book of mormon or the mormon church is a big con, I see a problem with that and the anger that it spawns. But I can understand someone feeling confusion as I would be understanding of someone feeling confused if the holy ghost testified to its truthfulness when not expected. But anger?

Edited August 21, 2012 by why me

[Tacenda]

Sorry about that... but I suspect there is more going on in your situation than just disbelief on your part.

Nope. And that's the honest truth. I doubt you'd understand since you probably don't live in a family like mine (husband's side) where the church is the end all be all. No extramarital affairs, no WOW issues, tithe payer, what were you getting at CA? Just living a LDS life here. And going through the motions.

[why me]

I agree. However, personal testimony is of no concern to anyone but the individual. For example, I will probably never bear my testimony in church or in public again.

Why wouldn't you bear your testimony in pubic again? For example, i am not the greatest member of the church but I have bore my testimony that I have had a extremely powerful spiritual experience toward the book of mormon when i prayed about it at the age of 18 especially on the internet. Now does that prove the church true? No. But it does prove to me that I had such an experience when I prayed about it and that makes it very personal. But the personal can help others who have doubts or for other members to understand that such experiences happen.

In fact, some internet exmormons handle my experience by equating it to a warm fuzzy. But i had no warm fuzzy. In fact, i never had a warm fuzzy but I did have experiences of soul, heart and emotions. I did not feel warm inside.

Edited August 21, 2012 by why me

[why me]

Nope. And that's the honest truth. I doubt you'd understand since you probably don't live in a family like mine (husband's side) where the church is the end all be all. No extramarital affairs, no WOW issues, tithe payer, what were you getting at CA? Just living a LDS life here. And going through the motions.

But this has nothing to do with the lds church being false. It has to do with people who have their own reasons for their behavior which is probably outside the church since many do not act like your family or extended family in the church. I can understand anger at them but not at the church. And it certainly does not support the church being false.

Likewise, for a catholic family who acts a certain way because they believe in the catholic church. It proves neither falsehood or truthfulness of the catholic church.

[CASteinman]

Nope. And that's the honest truth. I doubt you'd understand since you probably don't live in a family like mine (husband's side) where the church is the end all be all. No extramarital affairs, no WOW issues, tithe payer, what were you getting at CA? Just living a LDS life here. And going through the motions.

I don't want to throw gasoline on the fire. I was not accusing you of any impropriety or gross sin. It did not even cross my mind. I apologize for making it even seem that way. Not at all on my mind.

Edited August 21, 2012 by CASteinman

[ERayR]

I agree. However, personal testimony is of no concern to anyone but the individual. For example, I will probably never bear my testimony in church or in public again. My testimony is mine and should not be a means to help guide or sway someone into having a testimony as well. JS testimony has no bearing on mine. His testimony experiences are of no concern to me.

A testimony is certainly a personal thing. I rarely bear testimony in a testimony meeting but in class discussion it comes out. That however has no bearing on the temple recommend interview where one only affirms to the interviewer of a basic testimony. Totally private.

[Mudcat]

Why are exmormons angry at the lds church? Now I can understand the anger if the lds church were proven false. For example, if a written manuscript were discovered belonging to Joseph Smith complete with rough drafts for the book of mormon. Or if a confessional letter from Joseph Smith was discovered detailing the fraud and why he did it. But no such documents have been found.

There is no proof that the lds church is false. It is all speculation. Now one can be disappointed about lds history etc. But anger? And one can be disappointed about speculative evidence but anger?

Any thoughts?

Take it with a grain of salt, as I am not LDS or exLDS, but I think of some sort of LDS pamphlet I was given once. Showed JS sitting alone by the fire with some sort of spectacles with the BoM, I think the general idea was it was a depiction of JS translating it.

That doesn't seem historically accurate but it was in a CoJCoLDS publication.There are likely a lot of other examples that fall along that line.

I think it's the whole whitewashing thing that would likely rub a person raw. No one likes to come to the idea they have been sold a bill of goods by an organization that claims to be the one true Church.

Edited August 21, 2012 by Mudcat

[CASteinman]

I will probably never bear my testimony in church or in public again. My testimony is mine and should not be a means to help guide or sway someone into having a testimony as well. JS testimony has no bearing on mine. His testimony experiences are of no concern to me.

The Lord approves of and encourages us to bear testimony. Its not merely a cultural thing.

[Tacenda]

Tacenda, I just wanted to say, I am really sorry you are being treated that way. It is very difficult to keep from having angry feelings, at times, when we are being treated badly.

Sorry if I made it sound so awful Libs. I really don't have it bad just feel stagnant and like I'm not getting to be myself and at 50 it feels like its about time to live my life. I often want to just try a different church each week to compare but can't because I don't want to mess up my two kids that are home.

It would probably be strange to some out there to hear that I've only attended another church to go once with a Catholic friend and once to a Catholic funeral. Unlike some here I was born in the covenant and never had to search for the truth it was handed to me. Just accepted it on faith and on other's testimonies.

[CASteinman]

No one likes to come to the idea they have been sold a bill of goods by an organization that claims to be the one true Church.

Its a choice as to whether one is going to feel that way or not.

Some people make happy choices and some people make miserable choices.

[CASteinman]

Sorry if I made it sound so awful Libs. I really don't have it bad just feel stagnant and like I'm not getting to be myself and at 50 it feels like its about time to live my life. I often want to just try a different church each week to compare but can't because I don't want to mess up my two kids that are home.

It would probably be strange to some out there to hear that I've only attended another church to go once with a Catholic friend and once to a Catholic funeral. Unlike some here I was born in the covenant and never had to search for the truth it was handed to me. Just accepted it on faith and on other's testimonies.

I don't think I have ever seen what your grief with the Church was. Is the above a summary or is there a post somewhere that you have described it?

[Tacenda]

I don't want to throw gasoline on the fire. I was not accusing you of any impropriety or gross sin. It did not even cross my mind. I apologize for making it even seem that way. Not at all on my mind.

I forgive you;-)

[Libs]

Sorry if I made it sound so awful Libs. I really don't have it bad just feel stagnant and like I'm not getting to be myself and at 50 it feels like its about time to live my life. I often want to just try a different church each week to compare but can't because I don't want to mess up my two kids that are home.

It would probably be strange to some out there to hear that I've only attended another church to go once with a Catholic friend and once to a Catholic funeral. Unlike some here I was born in the covenant and never had to search for the truth it was handed to me. Just accepted it on faith and on other's testimonies.

I totally understand that need to explore (I have always been a seeker), and I think it's, often, healthy and can even give us a new appreciation of what we already have. I hope you do get that opportunity, someday, soon.

[Damien the Leper]

Why wouldn't you bear your testimony in pubic again? For example, i am not the greatest member of the church but I have bore my testimony that I have had a extremely powerful spiritual experience toward the book of mormon when i prayed about it at the age of 18 especially on the internet. Now does that prove the church true? No. But it does prove to me that I had such an experience when I prayed about it and that makes it very personal. But the personal can help others who have doubts or for other members to understand that such experiences happen.

In fact, some internet exmormons handle my experience by equating it to a warm fuzzy. But i had no warm fuzzy. In fact, i never had a warm fuzzy but I did have experiences of soul, heart and emotions. I did not feel warm inside.

Because it is unnecessary. I don't need to say it out loud for my own peace of mind or self aggrandizement.

And my testimony should have no influence on anyone else's or their doubts.

My testimony is no one's business.

[why me]

I think it's the whole whitewashing thing that would likely rub a person raw. No one likes to come to the idea they have been sold a bill of goods by an organization that claims to be the one true Church.

I can understand this. But this has nothing to do with whether the church is true or false. But it has to do with decisions people make in showing how the translating was done. So, I can understand having some anger for some Utah people in the COB.

It is my understanding that we know very little about the translation process. Joseph was not exactly relating the experience to others how it was done. Or at least we have very little from him on paper.

The early members who traveled west with BY certainly knew that Joseph was a polygamist. And many of those members had personal conversations with Joseph Smith when he was alive. Now what did they all talk about? I can only guess. What questions did they have of him? I can only guess. But since the conversations were not written down, they have become dust in the wind.