Feeding The Hungry....

[why me]

We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”

Joseph Smith

How do you think the LDS church is doing in putting Joseph's words into action? I say that it is doing okay. Any thoughts?

[KevinG]

As a recipient of church support during a time of unemployment and someone who has volunteered at church canneries and welfare offices I have witnessed it first hand and benefited from it. In better times I have also benefited from the blessings of being one who donated to the cause.

[Yep]

We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”

Joseph Smith

How do you think the LDS church is doing in putting Joseph's words into action? I say that it is doing okay. Any thoughts?

Well, whenever I have found myself in a position of need, I have never wanted.

Edited July 12, 2012 by Yep

[sjdawg]

In many of my callings I got to see first hand the generousity of the local welfare program. At times, I even thought it was maybe a little too generous. (some recipients were eating better than members that were barely getting by) I was very glad I wasn't the Bishop who had to make the decisions about who received help and who didn't. I agreed with my Bishop who tried to err on the side of generousity. I didn't see any instances where the storehouse was used to help a non-member though. When helping a less-active member there were often conditions attached to the help (attend church, meet with the missionaries, etc). That is just my experience and I think it could vary wildly from Ward to Ward.

I think the LDS Church does a tremendous job looking after its members. I'm less complimentary of the work it does to help the rest of the population. Yes, the church provides help in disaster situations but I think it could do more to help the general population in its day to day challenges.

[Calm]

Nonmembers are usually helped by the transient bishop (the bishop assigned to deal with transients). I don't know if one is assigned per building or per stake. Our chapel was right at the end of a busline and major highway into the city so people were always stopping by to get help. The local bishops dealing with transients had to be in contact with each other because many would just hop from one bishop to the next one in line as they worked their way through the city.

[sjdawg]

Nonmembers are usually helped by the transient bishop (the bishop assigned to deal with transients). I don't know if one is assigned per building or per stake. Our chapel was right at the end of a busline and major highway into the city so people were always stopping by to get help. The local bishops dealing with transients had to be in contact with each other because many would just hop from one bishop to the next one in line as they worked their way through the city.

My bishop was the transient bishop for a time. He helped Transient mormons (typically inactive) but I'm not aware of anyone else who was helped. Again, just my experience and observation.

[KevinG]

Yes, the church provides help in disaster situations but I think it could do more to help the general population in its day to day challenges.

Not arguing this point but I'm curious... what types of help we aren't engaged in today would you like to see the church engaging in? You might have some good ideas for local or world wide use.

[sjdawg]

Not arguing this point but I'm curious... what types of help we aren't engaged in today would you like to see the church engaging in? You might have some good ideas for local or world wide use.

In my local area the LDS Church has a nice storehouse and dry-pack facility. They do a great job feeding LDS members who are struggling. For the rest of the people in the area (non-members) the church welfare system is generally invisible. Maybe it could be used to sell food storage items at a low cost to non-members? That might help the general public better prepare for difficult times and provide some good publicity. I suspect there is nothing stopping a non-member from booking an appointment and doing some dry-packing but I doubt anyone knows it is an option or how to even to go about doing so.

Maybe the storehouse could be used to stock a soup kitchen? I don't know. Those are just a couple of ideas. Heck, maybe there should be a mechanism for allowing non-members to volunteer at the storehouse or dry-pack facility. It might be a good missionary opportunity.

Edited July 12, 2012 by sjdawg

[ERayR]

In my local area the LDS Church has a nice storehouse and dry-pack facility. They do a great job feeding LDS members who are struggling. For the rest of the people in the area (non-members) the church welfare system is generally invisible. Maybe it could be used to sell food storage items at a low cost to non-members? That might help the general public better prepare for difficult times and provide some good publicity. I suspect there is nothing stopping a non-member from booking an appointment and doing some dry-packing but I doubt anyone knows it is an option or how to even to go about doing so.

Maybe the storehouse could be used to stock a soup kitchen? I don't know. Those are just a couple of ideas. Heck, maybe there should be a mechanism for allowing non-members to volunteer at the storehouse or dry-pack facility. It might be a good missionary opportunity.

Not allowed by IRS.

[ERayR]

In my local area the LDS Church has a nice storehouse and dry-pack facility. They do a great job feeding LDS members who are struggling. For the rest of the people in the area (non-members) the church welfare system is generally invisible. Maybe it could be used to sell food storage items at a low cost to non-members? That might help the general public better prepare for difficult times and provide some good publicity. I suspect there is nothing stopping a non-member from booking an appointment and doing some dry-packing but I doubt anyone knows it is an option or how to even to go about doing so.

Maybe the storehouse could be used to stock a soup kitchen? I don't know. Those are just a couple of ideas. Heck, maybe there should be a mechanism for allowing non-members to volunteer at the storehouse or dry-pack facility. It might be a good missionary opportunity.

Some years ago when I was in Denver the cannery was opened to other charitable food organizations a few days a month.

[sjdawg]

Not allowed by IRS.

They sell items now. I'm assuming they don't make a profit but they do sell them to members

[why me]

Because of the bloomberg magazine article, there has been criticism about the mall and the amount of assets the church owns. And the lack of help that the church gives to the poor of the world. Critics may claim that they church lost the vision of Joseph Smith in my original post. I don't think that the church has lost this vision.

I don't believe that handouts do not solve the problem. The church could give 3 billion to africa and no improvement would be seen. Bob Geldorf learned this valuable lesson. More is needed than just money.

[Tacenda]

I think it's a shame they shut down the Humanitarian Centers inside the DI's because for years we were able get help with the humanitarian projects my family and extended family worked on instead of Christmas gift exchanges. They would help us with fabric in order to make hundreds of quilts, also help with school kit fabric. I remember sewing several with the donated material from Delta's airplane seat covers that were discarded. And another year we helped clean rust off of dozens of surgical instruments from another country. I'm sad that they did away with that. Also, prices in the DI should be lower. And even my very faithful LDS neighbor agrees. And we tell the other two neighbors who manage two DI stores, the same thing. So it would be nice to see lower prices for everyone. I know that members get vouchers to get items, but this would allow the non members a better deal. That's my two cents I guess, besides my dream of helping other countries much more than we do.

Edited July 12, 2012 by Tacenda

[Traela]

I think it's a shame they shut down the Humanitarian Centers inside the DI's because for years we were able get help with the humanitarian projects my family and extended family worked on instead of Christmas gift exchanges. They would help us with fabric in order to make hundreds of quilts, also help with school kit fabric. I remember sewing several with the donated material from Delta's airplane seat covers that were discarded. And another year we helped clean rust off of dozens of surgical instruments from another country. I'm sad that they did away with that. Also, prices in the DI should be lower. And even my very faithful LDS neighbor agrees. And we tell the other two neighbors who manage two DI stores, the same thing. So it would be nice to see lower prices for everyone. I know that members get vouchers to get items, but this would allow the non members a better deal. That's my two cents I guess, besides my dream of helping other countries much more than we do.

If you want to actually do a Humanitarian project, then see what the needs are in your own community. If you would rather help people in other countries, then donate money to the Humanitarian fund. The Church will send it wherever it is needed, to fund local projects. This saves on shipping costs, plus gives a boost to the local economy- in effect, a hand up instead of a handout.

As far as the vouchers go, DI does give them to the Salvation Army and similar groups to help non-members.

[why me]

If you want to actually do a Humanitarian project, then see what the needs are in your own community. If you would rather help people in other countries, then donate money to the Humanitarian fund. The Church will send it wherever it is needed, to fund local projects. This saves on shipping costs, plus gives a boost to the local economy- in effect, a hand up instead of a handout.

As far as the vouchers go, DI does give them to the Salvation Army and similar groups to help non-members.

I think that many people lost focus over the mall because it is a mall. And yet, many of the criticism against the mall are by people who spend their time in malls. Unfortunately, we live in a consumer world. I would like it to be different but such is the way it is. For any american to criticize the mall is losing perspective of american life and just what it is. It is a consumer life. Now the lds church does preach against consumer and debt and church members can follow that advice and if they did, they may have been able to weather the financial storm that began in 2008.

But to criticize a mall that brings work and vibrancy to a neighborhood when without it, salt lake could resemble detroit is a mistaken criticism. For the lds church whose headquarters is in salt lake, a detroit degradation would not be in their best interest.

[cinepro]

We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”

Joseph Smith

How do you think the LDS church is doing in putting Joseph's words into action? I say that it is doing okay. Any thoughts?

Compared to what? If there were no CoJCoLdS and everyone used the money that would be given for Tithing and Fast Offerings and bought expensive clothes and jet skis instead, then that would be worse. If everyone gave that same amount of money to a local food pantry...?

Obviously, "feeding the hungry" and "clothing the naked" is only part of the Church's mission, so only part of the Church's resources will go in that direction. In order to know to what degree the resources are allocated to different areas, the Church would have to tell us. Which they don't. So....?

Edited July 13, 2012 by cinepro

[why me]

Compared to what? If there were no CoJCoLdS and everyone used the money that would be given for Tithing and Fast Offerings and bought expensive clothes and jet skis instead, then that would be worse. If everyone gave that same amount of money to a local food pantry...?

The poor would have some food for a short time but they would still be poor in need of food next month etc. The problem has more to do with economics and the economic system that pervades the world. The difference between the classes have grown immensely during this recent period of financial globalism. And greed has destroyed the economic fabric of the world. And people have become victims of such market oriented globalism.

What needs to be done is creating infrastructures that help people to gain the skills needed to survive these changes. Personally, I would rather see a more people before profit socio-economic system. But...people do not seem to be ready for such a sacrifice. Joseph Smith who knew what it meant to be poor knew the dangers of poverty, thus, his quotation and the attempt at an united order. But it failed.

The problem is not the church but a system that creates poverty out of wealth.

[Storm Rider]

The Church does an outstanding job of caring for its own. It also does a very good job in major, disasters both in the US and abroad. In thinking about how it could care for the world at large, I think the task is too large and it attempted it would immediately find itself incapable of caring for its own or anyone else.

I often think of Judas' chastisement over the expensive oil that was used to anoint his feet; it could have been sold and used to feed the poor. There are so many lessons taught in this episode and I realize that the poor will always be with us regardless of how much money is used to care for them. Poverty is is not cured by the work of the rich an prosperous; it is cured one person at a time.

I think the way the Church currently runs its welfare system is just right. If anything, we could do a better job blowing our own horn. I remember on one occasion where the Church teamed up with the US Muslim charity to help in a global cause. It was mentioned on the Church website very briefly. I checked out the Muslim site; they never mentioned who teamed up with them, it was just another charity.

[Verum]

The poor would have some food for a short time but they would still be poor in need of food next month etc. The problem has more to do with economics and the economic system that pervades the world. The difference between the classes have grown immensely during this recent period of financial globalism. And greed has destroyed the economic fabric of the world. And people have become victims of such market oriented globalism.

So, it seems that you have a rather loose interpretation of Joseph's specific call to help the needy as shown below?

We are “to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to provide for the widow, to dry up the tear of the orphan, to comfort the afflicted, whether in this church, or in any other, or in no church at all…”

Joseph Smith

Even if you are right though about "hand-outs" not being the solution, the church's humanitarian program provides a lot of these programs that are not just "hand-outs" but are education programs, clean water facilities, heath programs, etc. And still, as pointed out in the article, in the last 25 years less than 1% of the church's revenue has gone to these programs. The question is, how much should go to these programs in order to prove the church fulfilling JS call to "feed the hungry" and "clothe the naked"? What % of revenue would be appriopriate? Is % of revenue a fair measure?

I recognize that the numbers discussed above do not include Church Welfare Services or monies to support cheaper tuition at church sponsored universities, but even if we were to assume a significant amount of church revenue goes to those things (which it doesn't), it conflicts with Joseph's statement to help the needy in "any other or no church at all" since almost all of church welfare services go to its members.

Some have said that the amount of money donated by LDS Humanitarian Services is not a reflection of the institution's dedication to help the needy but instead a reflection of how much its members are willing to put towards it since it is supposedly supported 100% by membership contributions. In other words, if the portion of humanitarian aid put towards these causes seems low, perhaps members should be donating more directly to it, not the church. The problem with this of course is that, yes, supposedly 100% of contributions to LDS Humanitarian Services go to its causes and come from church members, but all that is provided by members who are already paying 10% of their income to tithing. So to support humanitarian efforts in the church, one has to give more than 10% of their income and even more if they are to give to charities outside of the church, especially since I can't be a full-tithe payer even if I donate 5% of my income to tithing and 5% to church humanitarian aid. So, this argument that the amount of money used for LDS Humanitarian services is only a reflection of what members are willing to contribute to it instead of what the institution puts towards it is not a good way to justify the small amount of money and assets used towards helping the needy. It's a shame because I wish I could support these programs more. My first son was born 4 months premature, so it means a great deal to me to be able to support great programs such as the church's Neonatal Resuscitation program that provides other impoverished countries the tools and training of procedures that literally saved my sons life.

Edited July 13, 2012 by Verum

[thesometimesaint]

As long as there is one mouth to feed, one naked person to clothe, one widow in need, one child's tears to blot, or one afflicted to be comforted there will be more we can do. However we do a good job with what resources we do have.

[why me]

So, it seems that you have a rather loose interpretation of Joseph's specific call to help the needy as shown below?

We need to see the joseph's quotation in context. For Joseph Smith, his main concern was providing for the vast numbers of immigrants that were arriving in Nauvoo. Many of these people were poor without tangible support. He began a church program for caring for these member immigrants. So, his quotation was basically for the saints who were here already, attempting to convince them to give to the needy that were arriving to the mormon communities.

However, he also stated that we also need to care for the poor in neighboring communities also who were not mormon. But the church at that time had barely enough to care for its own. Today, we see the church caring for those who are in need regardless of religious faith. It just doesn't give the money outright but through aid and programs.

[Duncan]

Our stake and I know other cities do as well support city wide harvest drives every summer. Our stake also volunteers at a soup kitchen. Our ward some years ago and I posted it up on here was kicked out of one because of theological differences! we never said anything about it but some guy just kicked us all out for being LDS. Then our stake obviously has the church welfare system

[ERayR]

They sell items now. I'm assuming they don't make a profit but they do sell them to members

They can and sell items directly related to their mission and purpose.

[ERayR]

Compared to what? If there were no CoJCoLdS and everyone used the money that would be given for Tithing and Fast Offerings and bought expensive clothes and jet skis instead, then that would be worse. If everyone gave that same amount of money to a local food pantry...?

And when the money ran out? Do something to provide jobs and it becomes self sustaining and can expand.

[ERayR]

It has been said that Brigham Young built miles of rock fences around his properties, not because Brigham needed fences but because people needed work.