BookofMormonLuvr Posted July 8, 2012 Posted July 8, 2012 So... I just came across this site promoting the "Seal of Melchizedek". They seem to be promoting it as a LDS alternative to the cross.http://sealofmelchizedek.com/For all the armchair scholars ...Is there anything to the claims of the site concerning the SofM?Would you buy this or is it more like the "Jesus Junk" on TBN?
Ron Beron Posted July 8, 2012 Posted July 8, 2012 So... I just came across this site promoting the "Seal of Melchizedek". They seem to be promoting it as a LDS alternative to the cross.http://sealofmelchizedek.com/For all the armchair scholars ...Is there anything to the claims of the site concerning the SofM?Would you buy this or is it more like the "Jesus Junk" on TBN?It has little to do with the symbolism of anything related to the OT, but is entirely part of Byzantine religious visual allegory. I have seen this sold to LDS and it is indeed used on some temple architecture (Newport Beach Temple), but it is not to be considered to be an alternative for wearing a cross. A good read is the blogsite by Tim Barker... http://lds-studies.blogspot.com/2010/08/seal-of-melchizedek.html
Calm Posted July 8, 2012 Posted July 8, 2012 So... I just came across this site promoting the "Seal of Melchizedek". They seem to be promoting it as a LDS alternative to the cross.http://sealofmelchizedek.com/For all the armchair scholars ...Is there anything to the claims of the site concerning the SofM?Would you buy this or is it more like the "Jesus Junk" on TBN?About ten years ago it was Joseph Smith's Eternity ring. Apparently it is of great importance to LDS: http://www.thejosephsmithring.com/?page_id=236
Ron Beron Posted July 8, 2012 Posted July 8, 2012 About ten years ago it was Joseph Smith's Eternity ring. Apparently it is of great importance to LDS: http://www.thejoseph...om/?page_id=236Hey now, I have that ring. I wore the CTR ring until someone asked what it meant. I told them, "Choose the Right". And they asked if it was some kinda Republican thing. Why, yes....yes, it is! 1
tyler90az Posted July 8, 2012 Posted July 8, 2012 Can you guys give me more information on what the Seal of Melchizedek is? Maybe some scriptures or just your knowledge of it
Ron Beron Posted July 8, 2012 Posted July 8, 2012 Can you guys give me more information on what the Seal of Melchizedek is? Maybe some scriptures or just your knowledge of itSee my link above.
Calm Posted July 8, 2012 Posted July 8, 2012 (edited) Hey now, I have that ring. I wore the CTR ring until someone asked what it meant. I told them, "Choose the Right". And they asked if it was some kinda Republican thing. Why, yes....yes, it is!It is a good looking ring.....it is just I bet the majority of LDS are totally unaware of it. And the idea of what it stands for is not a bad idea. I was until I worked in a church bookstore and had to polish our replicas of it. Then I did some research to make sure it was authentic. Edited July 8, 2012 by calmoriah
Flyonthewall Posted July 8, 2012 Posted July 8, 2012 Interesting...the link in the OP says that the symbol is very importan to LDS, however, I was totally unaware of it until today.
Tacenda Posted July 8, 2012 Posted July 8, 2012 Many years ago a gentlemen came to a ward party with just the adults and told the story about a ring JS wore. Afterwards he had them on display to purchase. I don't think that would fly now. The church has put stuff out about not trying to sale something in church meetings.
tyler90az Posted July 8, 2012 Posted July 8, 2012 It seems pretty clear it symbolizes becoming one with Christ.
Ron Beron Posted July 8, 2012 Posted July 8, 2012 It seems pretty clear it symbolizes becoming one with Christ.I just read a story where the showing of crosses in Israel is "illegal" Shocking ‘Land of Israel' Exam Shows Christian CrossesHigh school “Land of Israel” exam features Christian crosses. Is the Education Ministry trying to undermine students with Christianity?AAFont SizeBy Tzvi Ben GedalyahuFirst Publish: 7/8/2012, 8:58 AMHigh school students last week were shocked by a matriculation exam in “Land of Israel Studies and Archaeology” that showed Christian crosses and referred to a place where “our father was crucified.”A large part of the exam dwelled on details of churches and Christianity, with a wide display of Christian crosses,which are forbidden by Jewish law to be looked at because they are considered to represent a form of idol worship.The matriculation exam included pictures and sketches, and one showed the Holy Sepulcher with questions asking the students to explain different parts of the tomb.The exam included a quote from a Christian pilgrim who visited Jerusalem and wrote in a dairy about "the little hill of Golgotha where our father was crucified.”The exam was full of Christianity and a real disgrace,” one teacher told Arutz Sheva. Some students did not want to answer the questions on Christianity but had no choice in order pass the test. There were so many questions on Christianity that failing to answer the questions would result in automatic failure.Another teacher told Arutz Sheva that she thinks there are people in the Education Ministry who are trying to undermine students and introduce Christianity.The reason it is considered illegal ostensibly comes from the use of visual symbols as idolatry. I wonder if we concentrate on the symbols sometimes to the detriment of actual commitment.
tyler90az Posted July 8, 2012 Posted July 8, 2012 In my case, that is correct, too much studying and not enough doing. It might be taking it a little too far calling it idol worship though. It really is no different then a CTR ring. Like the CTR ring, it would help me remember my purpouse. That purpouse being to become one with Christ.For whatever reason I am deeply drawn to this symbol. It is a more mature(not that I am mature ) version of the CTR ring. In addition, I was married at the San Diego Temple so that adds meaning.
CV75 Posted July 8, 2012 Posted July 8, 2012 (edited) Factoid (opinionoid): The Seal of Melchizedek looks like the interlocking latticework in one of the Mayan calendrical symols called "Pop." Pop is the first month of the year, a symbol of creation, and translated means "council of elders," also by extension "mat", symbolic of "community and marriage." Interesting link between authority, community and family. Edited July 8, 2012 by CV75
Ron Beron Posted July 8, 2012 Posted July 8, 2012 Factoid (opinionoid): The Seal of Melchizedek looks like the interlocking latticework in one of the Mayan calendrical symols called "Pop." Pop is the first month of the year, a symbol of creation, and translated means "council of elders," also by extension "mat", symbolic of "community and marriage." Interesting link between authority, community and family.Another take was offered by Tim Barker in my cite above...Another version of the eight-pointed star associated with Melchizedek appears in a Masonic work in 1905, based on the "47th Problem of Euclid." Euclid of Alexandria is commonly known as the "Father of Geometry." Around 300 B.C., he produced a thirteen volume work, entitled Elements, which became the standard mathematical textbook for approximately two-thousand years. These volumes included a collection of "geometry, proportion, and number theory." The 47th problem was extracted from Book 1 of Euclid's tome.12The 47th proposition postulates that "in a right-angled triangle the square on the side subtending the right-angle is equal to the (sum of the) squares on the sides surrounding the right-angle." For anybody who has taken a geometry course, this should seem familiar since it is equivalent to the pythagorean theorem, which is illustrated by the equation a2 + b2 = c2. "Most of the theorems appearing in the Elements were not discovered by Euclid himself, but were the work of earlier Greek mathematicians such as Pythagoras (and his school), Hippocrates of Chios, Theaetetus of Athens, and Eudoxus of Cnidos."13Freemasons have made particular mention of Euclid's 47th problem in numerous publications, including its connection with Pythagoras, the Egyptians, and its symbol of morality, representing "the ideal of perfection."14 It has been noted as one of the emblems of the Masonic third degree, and serves to teach Masons to be "lovers of the arts and sciences."15 Euclidean Geometry is recognized by Masons because it has been thought that this "system embraces the Masonic philosophy expressed in mathematical terms."16 This is explained by noting that "the geometrical constructions employed in the Elements are restricted to those which can be achieved using a straght-rule and a compass."17 Obviously, the compass and square (straight-rule) figure predominantly in Freemasonry.
volgadon Posted July 8, 2012 Posted July 8, 2012 I just read a story where the showing of crosses in Israel is "illegal"The reason it is considered illegal ostensibly comes from the use of visual symbols as idolatry. I wonder if we concentrate on the symbols sometimes to the detriment of actual commitment.Consider the source, as they say. Arutz Sheva is very right-wing, Orthodox Jewish. There is no official prohibition of crosses in the state, and Christian material does find its way into the curicculum if it is a history, current affairs, or religious tolerance class. I even served in a military base leased from the Catholic Church. Our building had a large, concrete cross on the roof, and a bronze Madonna donated by Chile. There were temporary mezuzot installed in the building, we had several very religious Jews assigned, and when they were on duty they slept in the building. There were also frequent kosher inspections of the kitchen by the IDF's rabbinate. Would most have prefered no Christian paraphernalia? Of course, but that is a separate issue.The law refered to isn't the state's law, but certain religious rulings, which aren't unanimously upheld. 1
PacMan Posted July 8, 2012 Posted July 8, 2012 If anyone has additional information on Ravenna, I'd appreciate it. Everything I can tell is that it was rebuilt, and that there's little story to the seal, or the gammadia for that matter.
CV75 Posted July 9, 2012 Posted July 9, 2012 Another take was offered by Tim Barker in my cite above...Cool idea-- the "gamma squares" reference.
Ron Beron Posted July 9, 2012 Posted July 9, 2012 Consider the source, as they say. Arutz Sheva is very right-wing, Orthodox Jewish. There is no official prohibition of crosses in the state, and Christian material does find its way into the curicculum if it is a history, current affairs, or religious tolerance class. I even served in a military base leased from the Catholic Church. Our building had a large, concrete cross on the roof, and a bronze Madonna donated by Chile. There were temporary mezuzot installed in the building, we had several very religious Jews assigned, and when they were on duty they slept in the building. There were also frequent kosher inspections of the kitchen by the IDF's rabbinate. Would most have prefered no Christian paraphernalia? Of course, but that is a separate issue.The law refered to isn't the state's law, but certain religious rulings, which aren't unanimously upheld.Thanks. I was hoping that you would have clarified this. I thought as much, but wasn't sure.
JAHS Posted July 9, 2012 Posted July 9, 2012 (edited) Hugh Nibley in his article "Sacred Vestments", in the book Temple and Cosmos, said:"Another Ravenna mosaic, C. A.D. 520, shows the priest-king Melchizedek in a purple cloak, offering bread and wine at the altar (Genesis 14:18-20) The white altar cloth is decorated with two sets of gammadia, as well as the so-called “seal of Melchizedek,” two interlocked squares in gold. Abel offers his lamb as Abraham gently pushes Isaac forward. The hand of God reaches down to this sacred meeting through the red veils adorned with golden gammadia on either side. The theme is the great sacrifice of Christ, which brings together the righteous prophets from the past as well as the four corners of the present world, thereby uniting all time and space.(Nibley, Sacred Vestments; pg.109.)"The symbol was used on the San Diego Temple: Edited July 9, 2012 by JAHS 1
The Nehor Posted July 9, 2012 Posted July 9, 2012 I prefer the Star of David. The symbolism seems more apt to me.
Ron Beron Posted July 10, 2012 Posted July 10, 2012 Hugh Nibley in his article "Sacred Vestments", in the book Temple and Cosmos, said:"Another Ravenna mosaic, C. A.D. 520, shows the priest-king Melchizedek in a purple cloak, offering bread and wine at the altar (Genesis 14:18-20) The white altar cloth is decorated with two sets of gammadia, as well as the so-called “seal of Melchizedek,” two interlocked squares in gold. Abel offers his lamb as Abraham gently pushes Isaac forward. The hand of God reaches down to this sacred meeting through the red veils adorned with golden gammadia on either side. The theme is the great sacrifice of Christ, which brings together the righteous prophets from the past as well as the four corners of the present world, thereby uniting all time and space.(Nibley, Sacred Vestments; pg.109.)"The symbol was used on the San Diego Temple:And the Newport Beach Temple.
mfbukowski Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 Bump.It's enough to make you want to be a temple architect so you get to come up with all these obscure symbols.The LA temple actually has crosses on it- but they are quite subtle. They appear in more than one place, but this was the only online picture I could find of them on the baptistry doors.At first the decorations appear to be grids of four squares, but when you look closer, you can also see the space between the four squares to be equilateral crosses- like the one you would see on a Swiss Army Knife, or the logo of the Red Cross
CASteinman Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 (edited) Bump.It's enough to make you want to be a temple architect so you get to come up with all these obscure symbols.The LA temple actually has crosses on it- but they are quite subtle. They appear in more than one place, but this was the only online picture I could find of them on the baptistry doors.At first the decorations appear to be grids of four squares, but when you look closer, you can also see the space between the four squares to be equilateral crosses- like the one you would see on a Swiss Army Knife, or the logo of the Red CrossMight be a coincidence. The doors might be mirroring things in SLC and the crosses just emerge by chance. Edited July 16, 2012 by CASteinman
mfbukowski Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 Might be a coincidence. The doors might be mirroring things in SLC and the crosses just emerge by chance.I don't follow.It's the LA temple and they are "mirroring things in SLC"? You mean like a design decision made in SLC?There is no chance in temple design, trust me. Even the number of candles in the chandeliers can be seen to mean something. Have you ever counted them?Often there are three tiers of candles, with 6 in the first tier, 12 in the next tier, and 24 in the last.
CASteinman Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 (edited) I don't follow.It's the LA temple and they are "mirroring things in SLC"? You mean like a design decision made in SLC?There is no chance in temple design, trust me. Even the number of candles in the chandeliers can be seen to mean something. Have you ever counted them?Often there are three tiers of candles, with 6 in the first tier, 12 in the next tier, and 24 in the last.You can observe the symbols on the door of the Salt Lake Temple and how the squares here, also produce a 'Cross'. Was this intentional? Or was it by chance? Some things happen because we live in a 3 dimensional physical world that insists that certain shapes must have certain characteristics.http://cameronmoll.com/img/pics/temple-doors.jpg Edited July 16, 2012 by CASteinman
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