Paddy Posted February 8, 2012 Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) I thought that this might be of interest to this group. A few weeks ago this (see attached) was mailed out to all the Bishoprics in Australia. I am sure this happens quite regularly over in the US but we are often "sheltered" from these kind of things here in OZ.I suspect that it will be largely ignored by most Australian members. I am wondering if this type of thing causes issues over in the US...??ThanksPaddy(OK..file attached now)FLDS.pdf Edited February 8, 2012 by Paddy
selek1 Posted February 8, 2012 Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) No attachment.Can you quote it?I suspect this is the manifesto/no-sex-until-I'm-out-of-jail nonsense that Jeffs and his lackeys were pushing a month or so back.I believe Papa posted a thread about it (but I could be wrong).As a general rule, Americans tend to pay more attention to Paris Hilton and Scarlett Johansen than to the FLDS.I'm not entirely sure that's a bad thing... Edited February 8, 2012 by selek1 1
KevinG Posted February 8, 2012 Posted February 8, 2012 In that case it hit the papers for a day and went away. Church headquarters frequently sends reminders to the press to the effect of "those guys aren't us and haven't been since they left us over 100 years ago".As Selek said that is about the extent of it.
Calm Posted February 8, 2012 Posted February 8, 2012 Various publications of the FLDS have been sent out to church and libraries and maybe even schools (can't remember the last) both in the US and Australia for the last year or so, can't remember if any have been sighted elsewhere.Must be costing a huge amount of money for printing and shipping, wondering where it is coming from.
Calm Posted February 8, 2012 Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) Local governments have got them too. http://rapidcityjournal.com/news/mormon-sect-adds-county-governments-to-mailing-lists/article_cd8040a2-3da4-11e1-8940-0019bb2963f4.htmlThe mailings typically include religious revelations and predictions from jailed FLDS leader Jeffs, and they include order forms to purchase additional copies. Edited February 8, 2012 by calmoriah
KevinG Posted February 8, 2012 Posted February 8, 2012 ...wondering where it is coming from.Here: http://tdcj.state.tx.us/unit_directory/b2.html
Paddy Posted February 8, 2012 Author Posted February 8, 2012 Sorry all...file is attached now...Paddy
Calm Posted February 8, 2012 Posted February 8, 2012 (edited) I don't see it.add-on: sorry, see it is attached to the OP Edited February 8, 2012 by calmoriah
Paddy Posted February 8, 2012 Author Posted February 8, 2012 I suspect this is the manifesto/no-sex-until-I'm-out-of-jail nonsense that Jeffs and his lackeys were pushing a month or so back.I believe Papa posted a thread about it (but I could be wrong).As a general rule, Americans tend to pay more attention to Paris Hilton and Scarlett Johansen than to the FLDS.I'm not entirely sure that's a bad thing...Yes I definitely pay more attention to Scarlett Johansen...!!
Calm Posted February 8, 2012 Posted February 8, 2012 My understanding is they are the only materials listed on the official FLDS site. See here: https://flds.org/
KevinG Posted February 8, 2012 Posted February 8, 2012 Yes I definitely pay more attention to Scarlett Johansen...!!No more details please, I'm not your Bishop. ;-)
Kenngo1969 Posted February 8, 2012 Posted February 8, 2012 I thought that this might be of interest to this group. A few weeks ago this (see attached) was mailed out to all the Bishoprics in Australia. I am sure this happens quite regularly over in the US but we are often "sheltered" from these kind of things here in OZ.I suspect that it will be largely ignored by most Australian members. I am wondering if this type of thing causes issues over in the US...??ThanksPaddy(OK..file attached now)Jesus has become practically incoherent in his old age. Whodathunk?
Paddy Posted February 9, 2012 Author Posted February 9, 2012 Jesus has become practically incoherent in his old age. Whodathunk? I have to say, when I read the letter it seemed all over the place. At least most of the evil leaders seem to live in the US, and destruction to electrical power plants will occur in America. Seems we are pretty safe in Australia...!!
Avatar4321 Posted February 9, 2012 Posted February 9, 2012 Wow... That was incoherantly and very poor grammatically.
Paddy Posted February 9, 2012 Author Posted February 9, 2012 Wow... That was incoherantly and very poor grammatically.Mate...who learned you english....??
Avatar4321 Posted February 9, 2012 Posted February 9, 2012 Mate...who learned you english....??I blame the public school system and being tired:)
Freedom Posted February 9, 2012 Posted February 9, 2012 We have received two mailings recently. Someone came to our buildings to hand deliver the material.
Stargazer Posted February 9, 2012 Posted February 9, 2012 I'm the finance clerk of our local singles branch (I'm married, tho), and our branch president came in one Sunday to show this package of printed materials he had received in the mail. He said at first he thought it was from SLC, but quickly determined that it hadn't. He was going to toss it in the recycle, but I got him to give it to me. I still have it, and plan to look through it one of these days.A quick perusal, however, shows that it contains all kinds of faux revelations and warnings to the nations. It took a lot of work to put this together. I don't know what they think they are going to accomplish with it. Especially sending it to LDS congregation leaders. And a LOT of postage fees went for this, too. Even at "printed matter" rates.I am so glad they are spending so much time, effort and money on such a useless exercise.
Storm Rider Posted February 9, 2012 Posted February 9, 2012 I thought that this might be of interest to this group. A few weeks ago this (see attached) was mailed out to all the Bishoprics in Australia. I am sure this happens quite regularly over in the US but we are often "sheltered" from these kind of things here in OZ.I suspect that it will be largely ignored by most Australian members. I am wondering if this type of thing causes issues over in the US...??ThanksPaddy(OK..file attached now)I have never seen the mailing though I did hear that one had been sent out to their groups and a few other churches. I am surprised it went all the way to Austrialia. Strange.I could only get through the first page; I have to admit that I am a very anally retentive fellow and bad grammar sends me over the edge. My wife had to pull me off the ceiling and it was not a pretty picture. My hair was falling out and clothes were being ripped off; terrible situation for both of us. Regardless, suffice it to say this poor, poor soul has got a chance in blue blazes of knowing what he said or what God said. Tell the folks in Oz that we think they are some of the very best. G'day.
PPrey Posted February 10, 2012 Posted February 10, 2012 Ok, where do I start? To begin with, the document that was posted is indeed a document that was fabricated by Warren Jeffs while sitting in his prison cell in Palestine, Texas. He is locked down 23 hours a day while serving a sentence of life plus twenty years for sexually assaulting little girls who were 12 and 14 years old. This mail out is one of many beginning in late 2010, that have been sent out to the President of the United States, the entire Congress, Senate, Governors, Attorney Generals, cabinet members, churches, and assorted law enforcement agencies. They have also been sent out worldwide to scores of countries.As you have observed, they are the rantings of a madman who is sinking further and further into the abyss of madness; however, he is a madman who controls the lives of thousands of people and who has nearly unlimited financial resources. It is easy for us to pass Jeffs off as a misguided "Mormon" who is stuck in an archaic moment in history but that is not only a dangerous misconception but also minimizes the untold human suffering he has left in his wake. The community known as Short Creek, sits on the Arizona Strip, and borders the UT / AZ border. It is the main settlement of FLDS members and is without a doubt the most lawless town in America. The police force, judges, city officials, fire department, businesses, and even wives and children are property of the "priesthood". As was mentioned earlier, a lot of postage was spent on these mailings as well as similar ads that have appeared in major newspapers around the country. An estimate of the amounts of money involved would not be in the hundreds or even thousands, but in the millions. I believe that it would be a horrible mistake not to take such dedication seriously. Despite his horrible grammar and apocalyptic overtones, I believe that Warren Jeffs has been thinking this through.I base that belief not just from reading newspaper accounts and watching the evening news; I have been investigating the FLDS and specifically Warren Jeffs for about eight years now. I am a private investigator who originally became involved with litigation involving the "lost boys" of the FLDS, and the "Brent Jeffs" case, which charged Warren Jeffs with the rape of his seven year old nephew, as well as a host of other cases involving the criminal leaders of the FLDS. I have spoken with hundreds, perhaps thousands of people who have been victimized by the FLDS church and its leaders and witnessed first hand the human carnage left in their wake. There are some very good reasons to consider the FLDS problem a notch in importance above Scarlet Johansen and Paris Hilton. For one thing, many people still dwell, or wallow, in the misconception that there is still some sort of connection between the FLDS and LDS people. I am also the author of a book on the subject titled Prophet's Prey, and have traveled all over the country on book tour. In the process I have spoken with many people and without a doubt, that perceived connection is the most often asked about subject. I now consider it my obligation to explain the lack of affiliation and differences between the FLDS and LDS very vocally when the inevitable questions are asked. The fact is, there are more similarities between Southern Baptists and LDS members (even though that may raise the hackles of some Baptists) than with the FLDS. My hope is that other LDS members will help in spreading the word. Another and much more important reason to pay attention to the FLDS is because of the thousands of children who are destined to be either victims, perpetrators or both, of child abuse at the hands of the FLDS hierarchy. There is an entire community and culture composed of tens of thousands of people right here in America who condone not just the criminal act of polygamy, but also the neglect and sexual abuse of children. It is criminal activity that we cannot afford to be flippant about. I, along with many other good LDS members, have witnessed first hand the hopelessness of children in that culture. It is my hope that everyone reading this post will consider the gravity and enormity of looking the other way as generations of children are deprived of the hope and privileges of growing up in America. Those types of crimes are just not supposed to occur here unchecked, and certainly not at that magnitude. Sadly, it is my experience that the LDS people are much less informed about the atrocities taking place in that isolated corner of the country than the rest of the population. I know because I was one who was more involved in my church, family, business, etc., and just didn't like the uncomfortable assumptions and finger wagging that the rest of the world seems to engage in whenever the subject comes up. There came a time though when it was just not possible for me to look the other way any longer. I have also learned that once LDS people are corralled and educated about the crimes occurring against children by a group of criminals who hide behind a facade of religion, their innate love for families and those children awakens the same disdain and disgust that has driven me to take a stand against such horrific abuses.
selek1 Posted February 10, 2012 Posted February 10, 2012 PPrey,Given your post above- I think it appropriate to point out that you are presenting yourself as being just as dogmatic and unbalanced as Jeffs and his most rabid followers.You throw out a manifesto of accusations against the FLDS community as a whole- but you've provided no evidence whatsoever of your assertions.For the record, no one here considers Jeffs to be "Mormon". In point of fact, we've taken great pains to differentiate between our faith and Church and the corrupted version he proclaims.Please take care not to tar too broadly with that brush of yours.Now, onto specifics:As you have observed, they are the rantings of a madman who is sinking further and further into the abyss of madness; however, he is a madman who controls the lives of thousands of people and who has nearly unlimited financial resources. Call For References- the FLDS community appears to be largely self-sufficient. But it's hardly a font of "unlimited wealth"- and much of what wealth they do have is tied up in a state-controlled trust. Do you have any credible estimates or financial statements regarding the FLDS, or are you just guessing?It is easy for us to pass Jeffs off as a misguided "Mormon" who is stuck in an archaic moment in history but that is not only a dangerous misconception but also minimizes the untold human suffering he has left in his wake. As noted, describing Jeffs as "Mormon" is problematic on its face.Equally bothersome in my mind is your use of "us". Frankly, we don't know you from Adam- and therefore have no idea what kind of ideological or psychological baggage you may be dragging into the conversation with you.Before you presume to speak for "us", it might be helpful to know who you are and where you're coming from.It is the main settlement of FLDS members and is without a doubt the most lawless town in America. Call For References, please. What is the crime rate in this town as compared to those of other towns of similiar size? I understand that the town may -or may not be (depending upon how one interprets the law)- flaunting polygamy statutes and perhaps gaming the welfare roles, but that hardly justifies the rabid hyperbole you are employing.The police force, judges, city officials, fire department, businesses, and even wives and children are property of the "priesthood". Ironically, the police and fire officials, city officials, and most business owners of a community tend to reflect the population of that community. Where I grew up in South Texas, they were largely Catholic or Southern Baptist. In parts of New York City, they are largely Irish-Catholic. In rural Utah, they are largely conservative Mormon.Unfortunately for your heartfelt screed, that's not a crime.As to the "women and children belong to the priesthood" claim, I'd like to see an authoritative statement to that effect from the FLDS scriptures or authorities themselves. Not something that needs to be twisted and molded to fit. Just a clear, concise statement that women and children are "chattel" or "property".You see, every once in a while, we get ignorant and bigoted do-gooders who wander through these boards making identical claims about the LDS Church and Mormons as a whole. The Cox-Powell tragedy brought the lowest strata of that particular pond bubbling to the surface- and so I'd like to see some proof of what you're claiming.As was mentioned earlier, a lot of postage was spent on these mailings as well as similar ads that have appeared in major newspapers around the country. An estimate of the amounts of money involved would not be in the hundreds or even thousands, but in the millions. Call For References. It's easy to throw out baseless guesses. Can you back up the claim with any kind of fact? I base that belief not just from reading newspaper accounts and watching the evening news; I have been investigating the FLDS and specifically Warren Jeffs for about eight years now. I am a private investigator who originally became involved with litigation involving the "lost boys" of the FLDS, and the "Brent Jeffs" case, which charged Warren Jeffs with the rape of his seven year old nephew, as well as a host of other cases involving the criminal leaders of the FLDS. So, in other words, you aren't an unbiased reporter, but have an axe to grind.Interesting, isn't it, that after seven years, you still haven't found the proof you need to even lay a serious case against Jeffs? 1
krose Posted February 10, 2012 Posted February 10, 2012 For the record, no one here considers Jeffs to be "Mormon". [...]As noted, describing Jeffs as "Mormon" is problematic on its face.Of course he and his group are "Mormons."You don't get to make that distinction, any more than other groups can legitimately claim that the LDS are not Christians. The FLDS believe in the Book of Mormon as holy scripture and they revere Smith and Young as prophets, among other things.
selek1 Posted February 10, 2012 Posted February 10, 2012 (edited) Of course he and his group are "Mormons."You don't get to make that distinction, any more than other groups can legitimately claim that the LDS are not Christians. The FLDS believe in the Book of Mormon as holy scripture and they revere Smith and Young as prophets, among other things.Krose,My primary complaints about Brower's diatribe are the lack of full disclosure, the deliberate misrepresentations, and the utter lack of evidence.Your complaint distraction attempted derail is being ignored for the same reasons. Edited February 10, 2012 by selek1
Recommended Posts