inquiringmind Posted January 21, 2012 Posted January 21, 2012 Is mental illness a moral defect?If someone is deeply depressed (even suicidal), is it because they haven't been seeking God with singleness of heart?If they can't remember what real joy is, is it because they're not open to The Holy Spirit?Are any of our feelings caused by biochemical factors beyond our control?If there are times when we can't seem to feel anything, could that have some biochemical cause?If the answer to any of these questions is "yes," why does God allow these emotional handicaps to befall His people (or are His people immune, and is suffering from such a handicap evidence that the sufferer isn't one of God's people)?
zerinus Posted January 21, 2012 Posted January 21, 2012 Is mental illness a moral defect?If someone is deeply depressed (even suicidal), is it because they haven't been seeking God with singleness of heart?If they can't remember what real joy is, is it because they're not open to The Holy Spirit?Are any of our feelings caused by biochemical factors beyond our control?If there are times when we can't seem to feel anything, could that have some biochemical cause?If the answer to any of these questions is "yes," why does God allow these emotional handicaps to befall His people (or are His people immune, and is suffering from such a handicap evidence that the sufferer isn't one of God's people)?I am no expert on mental illness; but I am of the opinion that depression can either have a spiritual or a natural cause and origin. If it is of a natural origin, a visit to the doctor might help. If it is of spiritual origin, only God can help.As to the reason why God allows it to happen, I suppose the answer is, for the same reason that He allows all illnesses to happen. When depression is of spiritual origin, however, it is usually a sign that God wants the person to seek Him by faith, in order to find Him:Acts 17:27 That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us:
KevinG Posted January 21, 2012 Posted January 21, 2012 John 9:31 And as Jesus passed by, he saw a man which was ablind from his birth.2 And his disciples asked him, saying, Master, who did sin, this aman, or his parents, that he was born blind?3 Jesus answered, Neither hath this man sinned, nor his parents: but that the aworks of God should be made bmanifest in him.
rpn Posted January 21, 2012 Posted January 21, 2012 Mental illness is not a moral defect. Mental illness, as currently defined by the APA DSM-IV manual, however can be caused and/or exacerbated by moral failures, including those which involve failure to live fully the word of wisdom (sleeping, eating right, exercising, as well as the more commonly discussed elements), and certain elements that are so described may not really be mental illness at all.Emotional numbing is a common symptom of post traumatic stress disorder which is frequently if not mostly, the result of a moral failure on the part of the cause, but never the victim. And sometimes keeping the commandments in spite of the emotional numbing and difficulty receiving comfort and guidance of the Holy Ghost is the mark of a better person, rather than one of failure.If someone is deeply depressed, whether or not suicidal, that is most frequently because of not enough of the right kind of brain chemicals (sometimes on top of traumatic experiences, or lack of appropriate coping skills, including how to think healthy thoughts. That is why we send them immediately to hospitals so they can receive help while that feeling passes. If your post has someone in mind, please consider taking them directly there. 1
Freedom Posted January 21, 2012 Posted January 21, 2012 This topic was discussed recently.http://www.mormondialogue.org/topic/56456-depression-mental-breakdown-etc-lack-of-faith-in-god/page__fromsearch__1Mental illness is an illness just as a physical illness. Sometimes it can be treated, sometimes it can be controlled and sometimes there is no way to help it. Sometimes the mentally ill commit heinous crimes that could have been prevented if there were sufficient resources available to diagnose and in extreme cases, institutionalize such people. I noted on the other thread of people I counseled with mental illness who were very limited in their church participation because of their condition.
Peppermint Patty Posted January 21, 2012 Posted January 21, 2012 In John, 9:1-5, Jesus is telling the disciples that we are asking the wrong question when we want to figure out who is at fault that a person is born blind. Jesus is more concerned about how God wants to help us to help a person who is blind. The same goes for mental illness. The only thing the Savior cares about is that we help these people.
inquiringmind Posted January 21, 2012 Author Posted January 21, 2012 Mental illness is not a moral defect. Mental illness, as currently defined by the APA DSM-IV manual, however can be caused and/or exacerbated by moral failures, including those which involve failure to live fully the word of wisdom (sleeping, eating right, exercising, as well as the more commonly discussed elements), and certain elements that are so described may not really be mental illness at all.Emotional numbing is a common symptom of post traumatic stress disorder which is frequently if not mostly, the result of a moral failure on the part of the cause, but never the victim. And sometimes keeping the commandments in spite of the emotional numbing and difficulty receiving comfort and guidance of the Holy Ghost is the mark of a better person, rather than one of failure.If someone is deeply depressed, whether or not suicidal, that is most frequently because of not enough of the right kind of brain chemicals (sometimes on top of traumatic experiences, or lack of appropriate coping skills, including how to think healthy thoughts. That is why we send them immediately to hospitals so they can receive help while that feeling passes. If your post has someone in mind, please consider taking them directly there.Do you have to be a veteran returning from a war zone to be suffering from post traumatic stress disorder?
Freedom Posted January 21, 2012 Posted January 21, 2012 Do you have to be a veteran returning from a war zone to be suffering from post traumatic stress disorder?No. Church Social Services can provide some great information on these matters. 1
inquiringmind Posted January 21, 2012 Author Posted January 21, 2012 No. Church Social Services can provide some great information on these matters.Thank you.
Tarski Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) Is mental illness a moral defect?The notion of a moral defect is of limited utility in psychology. In particular, this question is too loaded with assumptions to answer without setting out some caveats and clarification of terms.If someone is deeply depressed (even suicidal), is it because they haven't been seeking God with singleness of heart?NoIn fact, I can think of certain self-flagellating people whose obsession with such religious intensity is clearly causing them distress and what appears to be depression.If they can't remember what real joy is, is it because they're not open to The Holy Spirit?NoAre any of our feelings caused by biochemical factors beyond our control?Some are beyond immediate control but usually some things (medical) can be done which may help in time.If there are times when we can't seem to feel anything, could that have some biochemical cause?Certainly. Neurotransmitters and receptors must be present and functioning for us to feel pleasure or joy.If the answer to any of these questions is "yes," why does God allow these emotional handicaps to befall His people (or are His people immune, and is suffering from such a handicap evidence that the sufferer isn't one of God's people)?This is trouble for theists. Good luck. Edited January 22, 2012 by Tarski
Judd Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 If somebody gets into a car accident is it because they suffered a heart attack and lost consciousness or is it because they were in attentive because they were texting?
Duncan Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 If somebody gets into a car accident is it because they suffered a heart attack and lost consciousness or is it because they were in attentive because they were texting?sometimes it's the other person's fault!
zerinus Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 Thank you.Ultimately, finding and knowing God is the greatest anti-depressant around.
thesometimesaint Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) I am an expert.Is mental illness a moral defect? NO.If someone is deeply depressed (even suicidal), is it because they haven't been seeking God with singleness of heart? NO.If they can't remember what real joy is, is it because they're not open to The Holy Spirit? NO.Are any of our feelings caused by biochemical factors beyond our control? YES.If there are times when we can't seem to feel anything, could that have some biochemical cause? YES.If the answer to any of these questions is "yes," why does God allow these emotional handicaps to befall His people (or are His people immune, and is suffering from such a handicap evidence that the sufferer isn't one of God's people)? It is an imperfect world and we are very imperfect people. Edited January 22, 2012 by thesometimesaint
Duncan Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 Ultimately, finding and knowing God is the greatest anti-depressant around.partially true yes, I am thinking of Pres. George Albert Smith and some others of the brethren that dealt with depression and other issues. We have the knowledge that either here or in the next life we have ultimate healing
Tepui Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 If one has an infected appendix, is it because of an immoral failing of not keeping the Word of Wisdom? Silly question. One's brain is subject to mortality as one's appendix.Many of the prophets in the scriptures spoke of depression: Nephi who wet his pillow with his tears; Elijah who retreated to a cave; Joseph Smith who petitioned the Lord when imprisoned; The Savior himself who was "a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief."
inquiringmind Posted January 22, 2012 Author Posted January 22, 2012 partially true yes, I am thinking of Pres. George Albert Smith and some others of the brethren that dealt with depression and other issues. We have the knowledge that either here or in the next life we have ultimate healingDo you have any thoughts on why God allowed that?
Duncan Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 Do you have any thoughts on why God allowed that?well, not being any of these men but I assume or guess that it was for their education
inquiringmind Posted January 22, 2012 Author Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) well, not being any of these men but I assume or guess that it was for their educationThat might make sense.Thank you. Edited January 22, 2012 by inquiringmind
altersteve Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 We don't know for sure why God gives some of us certain trials that we must deal with and learn from. But we do know that Heavenly Father loves all His children very much, and being handicapped is absolutely no indication that the sufferer lacks faithfulness; in fact sometimes it means the exact opposite. Remember what Jesus Christ said to the afflicted Nephites in 3 Nephi 17:7:"Have ye any that are sick among you? Bring them hither. Have ye any that are lame, or blind, or halt, or maimed, or leprous, or that are withered, or that are deaf, or that are afflicted in any manner? Bring them hither and I will heal them, for I have compassion upon you; my bowels are filled with mercy."And also recall what we learn about how those who endure their trials well will find much greater happiness to come. Read the Lord's words to Joseph Smith in D&C 121:7–8, in my opinion probably the greatest sentence ever written:"My son, peace be unto thy soul; thine adversity and thine afflictions shall be but a small moment;And then, if thou endure it well, God shall exalt thee on high; thou shalt triumph over all thy foes."As someone with a physical disability myself (I stutter), I am always very deeply moved when I read these passages, and I am unable to describe what they mean to me.
zerinus Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) Do you have any thoughts on why God allowed that?I think that you are jumping to conclusions. I am not sure that he did suffer from "depression" as we know it today. Depression was not even recognized in those days as an illness. George A. Smith suffered from general ill health in the early part of his life, and prolonged ill health is bound to have some effect on your mental state as well, and make you depressed; but that is not the same thing as the kind of depression that is recognized as an illness today. Everybody becomes sad at times in his life, when he suffers a setback of some kind. That should not be described as a depression. George A. Smith's prolonged ill health, however, is something that he eventually overcame, and went on to serve the Church for many years.As for why God allowed it, the answer varies, including this possibility:Ether 12:27 And if men come unto me I will show unto them their weakness. I give unto men weakness that they may be humble; and my grace is sufficient for all men that humble themselves before me; for if they humble themselves before me, and have faith in me, then will I make weak things become strong unto them.This is what happened to George A. Smith. God gave him weaknesses earlier on in his life, but afterwards turned his weaknesses into strengths so that he could render many years of valuable service to the Church. Edited January 22, 2012 by zerinus
Judd Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 Contrary to the current swing of the pendulum to overcompensate for past treatment of the mentally ill, not all suicide and depression is mental illness (but then again that's plastic criteria). It's true that numerous DSM diagnoses can lead to suicide but the assumption that all suicide is therefore attributed to mental illness isn't true. Probably he majority, but certainly not the only explanation.
Kenngo1969 Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) Do you have to be a veteran returning from a war zone to be suffering from post traumatic stress disorder?No. Police officers, along with other people exposed to violent or traumatic events (such as victims of rape or of assault) can suffer from it as well.P.S.: PTSD should, of course, be formally diagnosed and treated by competent professionals. Edited January 22, 2012 by Kenngo1969
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