Kenngo1969 Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 ... As someone with a physical disability myself (I stutter), I am always very deeply moved when I read these passages, and I am unable to describe what they mean to me.Who knew? Your impediment certainly hasn't prevented you from making a valuable contribution here, one which belies your youth. Stuttering is a tough nut to crack for many reasons, not least of which is that everybody and their dog thinks they have a one-size-fits-all "cure" for it. Although my disability is much different, I share your feelings about such passages.
Kenngo1969 Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) Duplicate! Edited January 22, 2012 by Kenngo1969
BlueDreams Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) If the answer to any of these questions is "yes," why does God allow these emotional handicaps to befall His people (or are His people immune, and is suffering from such a handicap evidence that the sufferer isn't one of God's people)?PErsonally I've known two people very well who've battled with depression. The one I was with through much of a serious bought. In this case it was awful, but taught a major lesson that we simply cannot rely entirely on our own strength to deal with our problems. God made us to support each other and to come closer as we struggle through our own list of problems. Because of it my friend and I have developed an extremely close bond and she's come to better rely on God and learned more of her own limitations.This is just one case though. I have no idea for others.With luv,BD Edited January 22, 2012 by BlueDreams
Tarski Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 I am an expert.Is mental illness a moral defect? NO.If someone is deeply depressed (even suicidal), is it because they haven't been seeking God with singleness of heart? NO.If they can't remember what real joy is, is it because they're not open to The Holy Spirit? NO.Are any of our feelings caused by biochemical factors beyond our control? YES.If there are times when we can't seem to feel anything, could that have some biochemical cause? YES.If the answer to any of these questions is "yes," why does God allow these emotional handicaps to befall His people (or are His people immune, and is suffering from such a handicap evidence that the sufferer isn't one of God's people)? It is an imperfect world and we are very imperfect people.well, whaddya know?! We agree. (see my previous post) But then I often find myself in agreement with experts when they are speaking on topics in their own field. There is a reason for this and it isn't because I simply appeal to authority.
inquiringmind Posted January 22, 2012 Author Posted January 22, 2012 We don't know for sure why God gives some of us certain trials that we must deal with and learn from. But we do know that Heavenly Father loves all His children very much, and being handicapped is absolutely no indication that the sufferer lacks faithfulness; in fact sometimes it means the exact opposite. Remember what Jesus Christ said to the afflicted Nephites in 3 Nephi 17:7:And also recall what we learn about how those who endure their trials well will find much greater happiness to come. Read the Lord's words to Joseph Smith in D&C 121:7–8, in my opinion probably the greatest sentence ever written:As someone with a physical disability myself (I stutter), I am always very deeply moved when I read these passages, and I am unable to describe what they mean to me.I'm sure you know that you have the same "disability" that Moses had, so you're in good company.I thank you for your comments here..
rpn Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) Some children get PTSD if their parents are always fighting. You can get chronic PTSD by witnessing repeated trauma of any kind, or by living through one trauma that overwhelms you. No you don't have to be a vet to have PTSD. You just have to have been exposed to trauma, that gets memories stuck, or changes the way your brain works, or floods your brain with chemicals (all of these are theories about why chronic PTSD happens to some, but not everyone who has the same experiences). There are only two research proven interventions for PTSD (though there is ongoing research that use of propranolol right after the traumatic event might prevent it, and other things). They are cognitive behavioral therapy (which you may experiment with online at http://moodgym.anu.edu.au/welcome because lots of therapist claim they do it, but few really do it); and EMDR. Edited January 22, 2012 by rpn
LeSellers Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) Mental illness is not a moral defect. Mental illness, as currently defined by the APA DSM-IV manual, I prefer getting my doctrine from prophets than from psychiatrists, a sizable number of whom reject God any way.While their art (it's not a science) can help some people, they're far from the ultimate authorities even in their own field of "expertise".Yes, people should seek help from the best sources available, but that does not mean they should automatically discount the nonscientific because the spiritual has no gravity.Lehi Edited January 24, 2012 by LeSellers
thesometimesaint Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 Lehi:If you want help getting absolution for your sins see your preacher. If you want help with your mental health problems see your friendly neighborhood Psychiactric Social Worker.
zerinus Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 Lehi:If you want help getting absolution for your sins see your preacher. If you want help with your mental health problems see your friendly neighborhood Psychiactric Social Worker. I would like to get help from God for all of my problems, including health problems, be they mental or otherwise.
thesometimesaint Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 Zerinus:Trust in God, but keep your hands on the steering wheel when driving.
zerinus Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) Zerinus:Trust in God, but keep your hands on the steering wheel when driving."he that hath faith in me to be healed, . . . shall be healed" (D&C 42:48). Edited January 22, 2012 by zerinus
Calm Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 "he that hath faith in me to be healed, . . . shall be healed" (D&C 42:48).Unfortunately that verse doesn't specify timing.
zerinus Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) Unfortunately that verse doesn't specify timing.Actually it does. The timing must be assumed to be immediate, unless otherwise stated or qualified. Since no temporal qualification is added, the timing must be assumed to be immediate. The only required qualification is faith. Nothing else is stated. Edited January 22, 2012 by zerinus
Calm Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 The timing must be assumed to be immediate, unless otherwise stated or qualified. By what rule?
zerinus Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 By what rule?By the rule of language and grammar and rhetoric and historical and precedent etc. Ultimately, nothing is impossible to him that believeth (Matthew 17:20). There are no exceptions to the rule.
thesometimesaint Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 Zerinus:Then let me know when you're driving. I don't want to be anywhere near you.A few years ago there was a major flood. A man trusting in God waited as the flood waters rose. His neighbor came by in a car and said get in, more flood waters are coming. The man said God will save me from the flood, and sent the neighbor away. A while later he had to go to his second floor. Looking out his window. another neighbor came with a boat. Telling him to get in. Again the man refused saying God will save me. A while later as the flood waters rose the man had to get on his roof. A rescue helicopter came to rescue him. The man waved them off saying God will save me. The man drowned. When he went to Heaven. The man bitterly asked God why he didn't save him. God replied I sent you a car, a boat, and a helicopter. Why didn't you get in?
zerinus Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 Zerinus:Then let me know when you're driving. I don't want to be anywhere near you.A few years ago there was a major flood. A man trusting in God waited as the flood waters rose. His neighbor came by in a car and said get in, more flood waters are coming. The man said God will save me from the flood, and sent the neighbor away. A while later he had to go to his second floor. Looking out his window. another neighbor came with a boat. Telling him to get in. Again the man refused saying God will save me. A while later as the flood waters rose the man had to get on his roof. A rescue helicopter came to rescue him. The man waved them off saying God will save me. The man drowned. When he went to Heaven. The man bitterly asked God why he didn't save him. God replied I sent you a car, a boat, and a helicopter. Why didn't you get in?So you don't believe that God has the power to heal. Fair enough. You don't need to go through all that rigmarole to justify it.
Calm Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 By the rule of language and grammar and rhetoric and historical and precedent etc. Ultimately, nothing is impossible to him that believeth (Matthew 17:20). There are no exceptions to the rule.So when I told my daughter when she was 3 years old and she asked me if she would marry, and I told her if she wanted to get married, she shall be married, I meant that she would immediately be married.I believe all things are possible with God. I also believe that he heals according to his own time and will and not simply based on how much faith someone has as sometimes his purposes are served better otherwise.
altersteve Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 Actually it does. The timing must be assumed to be immediate, unless otherwise stated or qualified. Since no temporal qualification is added, the timing must be assumed to be immediate. The only required qualification is faith. Nothing else is stated.If someone has cancer but has faith that God will heal them, then God will heal them immediately?
zerinus Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 (edited) So when I told my daughter when she was 3 years old and she asked me if she would marry, and I told her if she wanted to get married, she shall be married, I meant that she would immediately be married.Every written or spoken word has a context that qualifies or determines its meaning; and they are not all the same.I believe all things are possible with God. I also believe that he heals according to his own time and will and not simply based on how much faith someone has as sometimes his purposes are served better otherwise.There may be exceptions to the rule; but the rule is not changed because of the exceptions. The rule remains the same. The rule is that he who has faith to be healed will be healed, period. If there are exceptions, well, they are exceptions, not the rule. That quote actually did have a qualifier which I had dotted out. Here is the full quote:"And again, it shall come to pass that he that hath faith in me to be healed, and is not appointed unto death, shall be healed" (D&C 42:48).That is the only qualification that the Lord has added. If He wanted to add other qualifications, He would have. I don't think we have the right to add to His qualifications. Edited January 22, 2012 by zerinus
zerinus Posted January 22, 2012 Posted January 22, 2012 If someone has cancer but has faith that God will heal them, then God will heal them immediately?That depends on the measure of their faith I suppose. Here is the full context of that quote:D&C 42:43 And whosoever among you are sick, and have not faith to be healed, but believe, shall be nourished with all tenderness, with herbs and mild food, and that not by the hand of an enemy.44 And the elders of the church, two or more, shall be called, and shall pray for and lay their hands upon them in my name; and if they die they shall die unto me, and if they live they shall live unto me.* * *48 And again, it shall come to pass that he that hath faith in me to be healed, and is not appointed unto death, shall be healed.49 He who hath faith to see shall see.50 He who hath faith to hear shall hear.51 The lame who hath faith to leap shall leap.52 And they who have not faith to do these things, but believe in me, have power to become my sons; and inasmuch as they break not my laws thou shalt bear their infirmities.So there is a difference between just believing, and having faith to be healed. It is possible to "believe," and be blessed for your "belief," without having sufficient faith to be healed.
thesometimesaint Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 zerinus:I didn't say that. What I am say is we need to do our part. If that means keeping your hands on the steering, getting in the boat, or taking the meds that the Doctors give you. That that is our part.Faith without works is dead.
zerinus Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 zerinus:I didn't say that. What I am say is we need to do our part. If that means keeping your hands on the steering, getting in the boat, or taking the meds that the Doctors give you. That that is our part.Faith without works is dead.Well this has nothing to do with what I was talking about.
JDave Posted January 23, 2012 Posted January 23, 2012 Well this has nothing to do with what I was talking about.What you were talking about sounded VERY much like stating that anyone that takes medicine is lacking in faith. If they had enough faith they would simply resolve their {insert illness here} by petitioning God. Such petitioning would never, if truly faithful, result in inspiration to see a doctor or take medication -- it would always result in immediate healing via divine intervention. People who ask God for help but still feel the need to see a doctor are lacking in faith.Right...One must assume that truly faithful people have no Band-Aids in their house, they simply pray their cuts away. Truly faithful people may be alarmed by large gushes of blood flowing from a wound, but they have no need to use their hands to apply pressure because their arms should really be folded in prayer until the blood stops.Please reconsider such preaching and its effects. Read this post as well...
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