Plaudits for Pahoran

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

This is true and this is why I told the moderator to cut him some slack. He is over on CAF boasting about how he has us all on the run. Also, I am the lead catholic basher on MADb according to atticus on CAF.

But still the logic is missing. No lds here ever start threads bashing the catholic faith. No catholic need come here to defend their faith against insults and mocking. The only reason why mormons post on CAF noncatholic religion section is to defend the faith they love from the insults.

What is unfortunate, without the mormon haters on caf, a discussion between the two faiths can be wonderful. But it seems to me that catholic answers agrees with most of sirthomasmore aka atticus says. And here is the problem.

The closet that comes to Catholic bashing (Which I reject), if you can even remotely call it that, is when talking about teh Nicean Creed. Other than that we rarely talk about them other then to state how many nice Catholics we have met and known over the years.

[AtticusFinch]

This is true and this is why I told the moderator to cut him some slack. He is over on CAF boasting about how he has us all on the run. Also, I am the lead catholic basher on MADb according to atticus on CAF.

But still the logic is missing. No lds here ever start threads bashing the catholic faith. No catholic need come here to defend their faith against insults and mocking. The only reason why mormons post on CAF noncatholic religion section is to defend the faith they love from the insults.

What is unfortunate, without the mormon haters on caf, a discussion between the two faiths can be wonderful. But it seems to me that catholic answers agrees with most of sirthomasmore aka atticus says. And here is the problem.

I am not sure I said I had you on the run....but I did get a kick out of you leading people over there just to see my posts. I was truly honored.

And you never told Michael Francis to cut me slack. But thanks for the laugh.

[todd520]

Although, I once started a thread about what we like about other faiths. Several Catholics, including me, posted the things we liked about the LDS Church. Funny, not a single LDS could find it within them to post.

That's true, BUT

- the thread seemed to be for Catholics to post what they liked

- NO LDS posted negatives or snide remarks based off the Catholic posts

[AtticusFinch]

That's true, BUT

- the thread seemed to be for Catholics to post what they liked

- NO LDS posted negatives or snide remarks based off the Catholic posts

no...it was for all faiths....no LDS cared to post nice stuff

[todd520]

Oh, nice sig, Thankfully, my religion does not dwell on the faults of yours. It dwells on its own. I left the LDS Church in 1989.....I did not become Catholic until 2002. So, your sig does not apply to me, but I like it.

No, you will never 'Get It'

I know that now.

[AtticusFinch]

No, you will never 'Get It'

I know that now.

since it did not apply to me, there is nothing to get.

But I think its cute that you know how I feel inside about everything.

[Storm Rider]

No, you will never 'Get It'

I know that now.

The C. S. Lewis quote is excellent. When I was growing up my mom and dad used to read us the tales of Br'er Rabbit. I particularly remember the story of Br'er Rabbit meeting the tar baby. The more he engaged the tar baby the more he was stuck in the tar. Guys, I recommend that when attempting to engage Atti/SirThomas in any form of dicussion you consider a few things, 1) First and foremost, is there a question on the table? 2) If there is no question, then there is nothing to discuss so hold your tongue (pen), 3) Never exchange comments of any kind with him; he is not here to engage in any degree of wholesome conversation, 4) remember the moral of the story...you engage the tar baby and all you succeed in doing is getting progressively more stuck in the tar.

What is the definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Why do we as humans never learn from past experience? Return to sanity and health and let this one go.

[ChristKnight]

Well mfbukowski is now suspended at CAF.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

Well mfbukowski is now suspended at CAF.

Board wars are not fun.

[todd520]

The C. S. Lewis quote is excellent. When I was growing up my mom and dad used to read us the tales of Br'er Rabbit. I particularly remember the story of Br'er Rabbit meeting the tar baby. The more he engaged the tar baby the more he was stuck in the tar. Guys, I recommend that when attempting to engage Atti/SirThomas in any form of dicussion you consider a few things, 1) First and foremost, is there a question on the table? 2) If there is no question, then there is nothing to discuss so hold your tongue (pen), 3) Never exchange comments of any kind with him; he is not here to engage in any degree of wholesome conversation, 4) remember the moral of the story...you engage the tar baby and all you succeed in doing is getting progressively more stuck in the tar.

What is the definition of insanity: doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Why do we as humans never learn from past experience? Return to sanity and health and let this one go.

I never heard the Br'er Rabbit story before but I LIKE IT!

Since it's so easy to just fling mud back when 'they started it", the CS Lewis quote will remind me to think twice before I hit the post button. CAF members will call me on any hypocrisy in my posts

[mfbukowski]

Well mfbukowski is now suspended at CAF.

News to me.

No great loss. I wonder if they deleted anything. Back soon. I made copies to post here if they did. I thought they were pretty good stuff, and totally reasonable.

[mfbukowski]

Hilarious!

They deleted- like - pages I think

There were two posts, this is the first in its entirety- including all the posting garbage- I just cut and pasted the whole thing as a text file

mfbukowski mfbukowski is online now

Regular Member

Join Date: July 17, 2008

Location: Los Angeles area

Posts: 2,331

Religion: Mormon

Default Re: Cumorah

I have been reprimanded in the past for breaking a rule of your board which is not to discuss moderator actions, so I am making no comment on Pahoran being banned. It was my purpose originally to simply point it out and let people make their own conclusions.

Moderators, please note that this post is not intended to discuss moderator activities, but to explain why I posted what I did.

Sir thomas moore/ atticus, whatever your alias is today,

Please note that if you really are an attorney, the evidence you have posted is terrible evidence. Random pictures of missionaries are easy to find anywhere. It is not even clear to me that any of the people in the pictures are the same people as in any of the others.

I found the story about L Tom Perry endearing. Auuuah. How sweet.

Incidentally, it is church policy that Baptisms and other church ordinances not be photographed. So it is highly likely that whoever took that picture was either unaware of that rule or was not a church member. In other words a missionary would not allow such a picture to be taken. Perhaps it was taken without the Baptizers knowledge, but in such a case a picture taken in violation of church rules would not be kept.

Would a real attorney post such ridiculous "evidence"? Why would he need to? Are you feeling vulnerable? Maybe a little credibility problem?

Let's put the shoe on the other foot, and try it on for size.

I have unfortunately in the past been critical of the Catholic church, as an ex-member of that church. I am trying to repent of that- that is one of the reasons I avoid this board, because all you friendly Catholics who post here make me feel so welcome that I am afraid that I may respond in kind. That was sarcasm for those who could not figure it out.

I know you are not representative of the church as a whole though, thank goodness.

Anyway, suppose I came here and alleged that I was not only an ex-Catholic, but also a quasi-official ex-representative of the church- a deacon perhaps, or a teacher of catechism- one who was expected by one's roll to be familiar with Catholic doctrine.

Suppose I alleged that I was an expert on the New Testament.

Suppose then I repeatedly got Catholic church doctrine wrong in my posts. Not just the fine points, but the very basics.

Suppose I was critical of how you "worship Mary".

Suppose I said that you worship the saints, or statues.

Then suppose there was another poster here named "Nicodemus".

Suppose I had a lengthy conversation with this individual regarding doctrinal matters. In the course of arguing about how Catholics believe that babies who die before baptism will go to limbo, I said something like

" Oh that Nico guy- whatever his name is- he's wrong because........"

Suppose then somebody called me on the fact that I did not know his correct name, and I STILL was unable to make the connection that the individual's name was "Nicodemus" who was an important character in the New Testament?

Suppose then I said that I "just got his name wrong" and that I hadn't in fact read the New Testament in 21 years, but I just bought a new copy.

Would you for ONE MINUTE believe that I in fact used to be a catechism teacher?

That I was very familiar with or an expert on the New Testament?

That indeed I had even ever been Catholic, with the kind of mistakes I was making??

I would strongly suggest that if anyone here is interested in sincere dialogue, they go to MADB and ask sincere questions in a sincere tone, and if nothing else PM me when you get there (same name, incidentally) and I will make absolutely positive that that you get treated fairly.

I am interested in promoting Christian understanding, not debates among Christians. I must admit that I still enjoy atheist bashing, however, but I am trying to get better!

I am not interested in answering questions here because I have answered them all before and found it to be a waste of time, and that is a commodity I have very little of.

Besides, you will not believe that my position in my answers is the Mormon position- that is why you need to go to MADB so you will have multiple people telling you the same things.

I will leave it for people more spiritually advanced with more patience like Dianaiad and the others who do such a good job here.

Edit:

Removed some repeated posting information

[mfbukowski]

What also got deleted was a reply from atticus- I will let him handle that if he wants to, but it was 3 pictures, one of someone with a moustache and jeans with L Tom Perry, another, of some missionaries and a little kid, and another of a person being baptized in a river, from above, some distance away.

I had earlier questioned if he had been a missionary or even a member, and he was supposedly proving he was indeed both by showing pictures

[AtticusFinch]

What also got deleted was a reply from atticus- I will let him handle that if he wants to, but it was 3 pictures, one of someone with a moustache and jeans with L Tom Perry, another, of some missionaries and a little kid, and another of a person being baptized in a river, from above, some distance away.

I had earlier questioned if he had been a missionary or even a member, and he was supposedly proving he was indeed both by showing pictures

I actually, I never saw this attack post. Thanks for saving it. It agains proves my point.

As far as the pictures, before my mission, I had a dream I would baptize someone in a river. I was sad when I got to Honduras and found out baptisms were done inside. But, for this baptism, the water was off, so we had to use the river. If it was a rule not to photo baptisms in 1984, I was unaware of it. Regardless, it was taken. My companion (who was ZL) took it. You can tell it is the same person in all three pictures. You made a claim I had never been a missionary. I posted the pictures to prove you wrong. I had not realized being proven wrong would upset you so much.

[mfbukowski]

Then I recall some poster saying that he has posted here, and got accused of being a troll.

I then said the following:

The surest way to be labeled a "troll" over there is to cut and paste some argument from some anti-Mormon site like this one.

But if you ask sincerely like "I read somewhere that you believe.....(cut and paste)- Is that true? I really want to know!"

Again, if you PM me here OR there, I will make sure that doesn't happen. I will give you a full introduction and let you ask your question and will help myself to answer it. I will guarantee anyone who does that that you will not be accused of being a troll.

It's like here.

If I posted a new topic about Catholics worshiping statues- how many sincere replies would I get?

But if I asked the way I just did- "Hey you guys- I am confused- I have heard that Catholics worship statues- is that really true? I find it hard to believe- but that is what someone said"- such a person would I think get a reasonable answer from most here.

But if I came here and said "Ha Ha you dumb Catholics worship statues! How stupid can you get?" The reaction would understandably be totally different.

Edit: and about this being an anti-mormon site:

http://shop.catholic.com/product.php?productid=194

You would never see anything like this there. Yes members may refer you to FAIR, but that's members- not the site itself.

And nothing on FAIR is AGAINST a particular religion - nothing like "What to Argue against Catholics" or JW's or whatever.

I hope that doesn't violate some rule against cross posting since I am only quoting myself and these pages have been deleted there....

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

I actually, I never saw this attack post.

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

[mfbukowski]

I had not realized being proven wrong would upset you so much.

Not upset at all. I don't care if you were a missionary or not- the point is that regardless, you do not know the BOM and portraying yourself as some kind of expert on Mormonism over there because you went on a mission or didn't is just ridiculous.

The posts must have threatened someone or they would not have suspended me.

The posts were written for those over there, not for those here anyway.

I am only posting them to show that I said nothing worthy of being suspended for.

[AtticusFinch]

Not upset at all. I don't care if you were a missionary or not- the point is that regardless, you do not know the BOM and portraying yourself as some kind of expert on Mormonism over there because you went on a mission or didn't is just ridiculous.

The posts must have threatened someone or they would not have suspended me.

The posts were written for those over there, not for those here anyway.

I am only posting them to show that I said nothing worthy of being suspended for.

apparently, you did. I never saw all of them, so I made no complaint. And YOU said I was never a missionary....I was.

[Ahab]

Hilarious!

They deleted- like - pages I think

Is deleting pages on websites their modern version of burning documents in fires?

And what about banning? Is that their modern version of excommunication, which also involved using fire?

Thankfully, not all Catholics are into all of that, with those on CAF mainly being those on the fringe of the Catholic faith.

Hey, maybe CAF is the modern version of their Inquisition... which not all Catholics approved of back then, or even today.

This post is highly inflammatory and not necessary. Especially since the point of the thread is one Catholic poster applauding an LDS poster away from home turf. Unfortunately it's been tainted by Atticus who needs to learn to have a little more humility and compassion in his posts. I assure you if he was able to do that people would respond to him in kind. AtticusFinch is banned from another thread he has derailed.

Nemesis

[Calm]

no...it was for all faiths....no LDS cared to post nice stuff

There have been similar threads posted in this forum well visited and posted in by LDS.

[Calm]

What a sad result of what started out a lovely, sweet thread.

[zerinus]

I posted there for a very short while.

I quit. It grew old very fast, and it was unbelievably disappointing to receive from Catholics the sort of treatment I would expect from triumphalist fundamentalist Protestants at CARM or on the wretched Walter Martin board (if it still exists).

I don't even look in there any more.

CAF is one of my favorite places. I have no complaints about CAF. The Mormon haters who are constantly spewing out anti-Mormonism are Mormon apostates who no more believe in Catholicism than in Mormonism. It is a mistake to call them just "Catholics". They give genuine Catholics a bad name. Their behavior is so outrageous sometimes that even the genuine Catholics can't stand it, and they come out in defense of the Mormons. The best way of dealing with them is to just ignore them. Unfortunately Mormons who go there don't know that, so they reply to them, and that gives them the shot in the arm they need to continue. If Mormons didn't reply to them they would soon wither away. Anti-Mormons and Mormon apostates excluded, however, from time to time serious folks do turn up who ask serious questions, which can lead to a good discussion.

[Ahab]

What a sad result of what started out a lovely, sweet thread.

Interesting how so many of us got side-tracked into talking to or about Atticus, instead of offering more plaudits for Pahoran, isn't it.

Why do we do things like that here, I wonder.

Sorry, Pahoran. I do appreciate you as someone I can learn from, and when I think about Atticus compared to you... well, nm.

[Mola Ram Suda Ram]

And YOU said I was never a missionary....I was.

The problem is that you claimed (If you are or not really does not matter) to have been a missionary and so badly mis-represneted LDS belief, makes your claim really hard to take seriously.

I remember Billy, who used to post on this board until he was banned, was also a missionary. He mis-represented LDS beliefs about as bad as you did. I had a very very hard time believing that he served a mission.

In the end I just had to say that it did no matter if you served a mission, you are not qualified to talk about LDS beliefs for you are no longer LDS.

[why me]

CAF is one of my favorite places. I have no complaints about CAF. The Mormon haters who are constantly spewing out anti-Mormonism are Mormon apostates who no more believe in Catholicism than in Mormonism. It is a mistake to call them just "Catholics". They give genuine Catholics a bad name. Their behavior is so outrageous sometimes that even the genuine Catholics can't stand it, and they come out in defense of the Mormons. The best way of dealing with them is to just ignore them. Unfortunately Mormons who go there don't know that, so they reply to them, and that gives them the shot in the arm they need to continue. If Mormons didn't reply to them they would soon wither away. Anti-Mormons and Mormon apostates excluded, however, from time to time serious folks do turn up who ask serious questions, which can lead to a good discussion.

Since they monopolize the mormon threads, it is difficult to ignore them. But yes, if pahoran would have ignored them, maybe things would have worked out better. But how can one ignore the poster who starts the OPs? Quite difficult I believe. And since the mormon haters start most of the mormon threads, ignoring them would be counterproductive. But yes, there are catholics who come on the threads although very rarely to defend the lds. Most of the catholics tend to buy into what the mormon haters are writing.

However, if mormons would just ignore the mormon threads, the hatred and bitterness will die away fast on the threads. Without mormons posting on the mormon hating threads, the thread would die a quick death.