The generational curse brought on by birth control

[theplains]

The following was taught in Gospel Truth, volume 2, page 128. George Q. Cannon served as a counselor 
in the First Presidency to four successive LDS Church presidents

Is the punishment for this "gospel truth" the same for those who commit this great sin or have less
than three children when they are capable of more? And is it really seemingly one step below or on
par with murder on the condemnation scale?
 

BIRTH CONTROL-A GREAT SIN. From what we have heard we are led to believe that the spirit is abroad 
in the earth, and is making some headway among the Latter-day saints, to look with reproach upon 
women with large families, and the desire seems to be growing among some of the younger population, 
to desire only one or two, and not to exceed three, children. We have heard that many of the 
diabolical practices of the world have been introduced... among some who profess to be Latter-day 
Saints, to prevent the bearing of children. No sin, unless it be that of murder, will meet with a 
greater condemnation from God than this evil of tampering with the fountains of life. Such sins 
will destroy the strength of any people that practices them, and the nation whose people yield to 
such vices is in great danger of destruction. No Saint can practice or encourage such corruption 
without incurring the displeasure of an offended God. (July 15, 1895, JI 30:451)

I refer to the practice of preventing the birth of children. I want to lift my voice in solemn 
warning against this, and I say to you that the woman who practices such devilish arts, or the 
man who consents to them, will be cursed of God. Such persons will be cursed in their bodies, 
cursed in their minds, cursed in their property, cursed in their offspring. God will wipe them 
out from the midst of this people and nation. Remember it.

Mothers, teach this to your daughters, for I tell you it is true. I need not pronounce any curse, 
whatever my authority may be, but I say to you that women who take this course, and men who consent 
to it, will be cursed of God Almighty, and it will rest upon them until their generation shall be 
blotted out, and their name shall be lost from the midst of the Saints of Goa unless, as I have 
said, there is deep, thorough and heartfelt repentance. (October 7, 1894, DW 49:739)

Edited Monday at 01:48 PM by theplains

[The Nehor]

In a preindustrial society the average woman had to have around 6-8 noticable pregnancies to maintain population size. On average two pregnancies don’t make it. About half of the children don’t make it to adulthood so after that you probably have three children. Enough to sustain population, cover for women who can’t or don’t have children or who die in childbirth (before meeting their ‘quota’), and to provide some growth.

Advances in medicine toppled this whole structure. Add in that children are no longer free farming labor so children become an economic disadvantage to parents and of course decisions change.

Also women (and men) in subsistence societies often practiced birth control for the health of the mother, to avoid exceeding a family size that their land will support, and to avoid complicating inheritances where having too many children means none of them have enough to live on.

Elder Cannon lived in a nation with plenty of arable land that could be gotten relatively easily compared to most places on Earth, some of the advantages of the Industrial Revolution, and is generalizing these circumstances to the whole world. According to Malthus Elder Cannon’s approach would eventually lead to disaster. Thankfully humans aren’t idiots and most of them adjust their childbearing practices in a way that benefits their own family no matter what Elder Cannon (and many others) say.

[SkyRock]

My son has a friend who just finished his mission. They combined his homecoming with a farewell for his younger sibling, as well as the baby blessing for the 10th child in the family. 

They can afford the kids financially and truly have the vision.  They could have had just 3 kids and lived in a mansion with trips around the world, but decided differently.  My interactions with the parents is that they are both extremely happy.

Well off families should have more kids.

The future belongs to those that show up.

[Calm]

7 hours ago, SkyRock said:

Well off families should have more kids.

If the parents are capable of giving them the attention the kids need and deserve and actually want them and just don’t see it as a duty.  Kids will pick up if their parents are not that interested in them as individuals and that can have traumatic effects on self worth.  

Just because you are in a good financial situation doesn’t always mean you can handle anything and everything even if having money can remove a lot of stress and worry in that area.  

Edited yesterday at 01:37 AM by Calm

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, SkyRock said:

My son has a friend who just finished his mission. They combined his homecoming with a farewell for his younger sibling, as well as the baby blessing for the 10th child in the family. 

What convenient packaging. Sure must make the kids feel individually special as they run through the conveyer belt.

1 hour ago, SkyRock said:

They can afford the kids financially and truly have the vision.  They could have had just 3 kids and lived in a mansion with trips around the world, but decided differently.  My interactions with the parents is that they are both extremely happy.

Are the kids extremely happy?

1 hour ago, SkyRock said:

Well off families should have more kids.

By that presumably you mean households that can survive off of the income of one parent making mid six figures or more a year. Yeah, they can do what they want for the most part.

1 hour ago, SkyRock said:

The future belongs to those that show up.

Since children are no carbon copies of their parents I have my doubts that this is some kind of demographic ‘winning’ strategy.

[Calm]

28 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

What convenient packaging. Sure must make the kids feel individually special as they run through the conveyer belt.

I have known a couple of families where one kid is doing a homecoming talk while another does their farewell.  It probably depends on the kids, in the one case I know how they felt they liked it.  Can’t remember why, maybe they had a sense of passing the baton.  
 

I do have concerns about kids who feel like they are wanted because quantity is what is most important to their parents and not that they are loved as individuals.  

I have a relative who married a woman who wanted 8 kids because the woman she admired most had 8 kids and everyone knew this.   They had six or seven and the kids were sleeping on the floor on mattresses (not inherently unhealthy, depends on if it’s an actual choice or happening because it’s being ignored) and all she could think about and focused her efforts on most was getting pregnant.  

Edited Monday at 07:32 PM by Calm

[The Nehor]

15 minutes ago, Calm said:

I have known a couple of families where one kid is doing a homecoming talk while another does their farewell.  It probably depends on the kids, in the one case I know how they felt they liked it.  Can’t remember why, maybe they had a sense of passing the baton.  

 

Yeah, I can see it going both ways. It depends on the kids involved.

15 minutes ago, Calm said:

I do have concerns about kids who feel like they are wanted because quantity is what is most important to their parents and not that they are loved as individuals.  

I have a relative who married a woman who wanted 8 kids because the woman she admired most had 8 kids and everyone knew this.   They had six or seven and the kids were sleeping on the floor on mattresses (not inherently unhealthy, depends on if it’s an actual choice or happening because it’s being ignored) and all she could think about and focused her efforts on most was getting pregnant.  

And when she had her eighth child her life became absolute bliss and she found happiness. - Chance of success 0.1254%

[Calm]

37 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Yeah, I can see it going both ways. It depends on the kids involved.

And when she had her eighth child her life became absolute bliss and she found happiness. - Chance of success 0.1254%

Yeah, they ended up getting divorced.  

I know a lot of kids who loved being part of a large family (my husband at least as an adult, one of 8 with one adopted) and others who felt unseen, unimportant.  

Edited Monday at 08:26 PM by Calm

[webbles]

For me, the way he phrases things, it sounds like he is talking about abortion.

[Amulek]

2 hours ago, Calm said:

If the parents are capable of giving them the attention the kids need and deserve and actually want them and just don’t see it as a duty.  Kids will pick up if their parents are not that interested in them as individuals and that can have traumatic effects on self worth.  

Just because you are in a good financial situation, doesn’t always mean you can handle anything and everything even if having money can remove a lot of stress and worry in that area.  

Having grown up in the Church, my philosophy has always been that I wanted to have as many children as my wife and I were capable of supporting, both financially and emotionally. 

I have seen too many wealthy, well-meaning parents who have given their children every opportunity except the opportunity to really develop a close relationship with their mom and dad. They had the best schools, activities, vacations, and material comforts, but very little meaningful time with the people they wanted most. No amount of money can replace a parent's consistent presence, attention, and genuine interest in who their children are becoming.

To me, the limiting factor isn't just whether you can provide for more children – it's whether each child can receive the time, love, guidance, and individual relationship they deserve.

 

[Calm]

2 hours ago, Amulek said:

me, the limiting factor isn't just whether you can provide for more children – it's whether each child can receive the time, love, guidance, and individual relationship they deserve.

 

Amen

[let’s roll]

Like most, this is a subject where one size doesn’t fit all.  Since God has promised to impart wisdom to those who earnestly seek it, I think it prudent for earnest couples to consult with, and take counsel from, God with respect to their child bearing plans.

Btw, I was the second oldest of five children raised by a single mother with a HS education.  I quite enjoyed my childhood, with the credit going in equal part to my saintly mother and my fun-loving siblings.

Edited 23 hours ago by let’s roll

[MustardSeed]

I’d caution anyone against rooting an extreme belief like “having less than 3 kids is akin to MURDER “ in some guys opinion, especially so long ago. 
 

Let’s allow some room for common sense. 

[The Nehor]

He had 33 children.

He also insisted that a long-running adulterous affair by one of his sons occurred in an “unguarded moment”. I have some concerns about his hierarchy of sins.