Shooting at church in Grand Blanc Michigan. Pray

[Calm]

5 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

My dad used to do “ security” for seminary. He always packed. I don’t think anybody knew it. Don’t ask. Don’t tell.

I would prefer the bishop and a few other leaders at least knew, so if something happened they would be able to organize efforts to maximize safety, including asking those who are given this role to sit in advantageous positions, spread out, not in a single location, etc. Maybe even have a few meetings, drills on what to do.

Also threats may not always be loud, say someone attacks another with a knife at the back of the Church.  If the procedure is to call the bishop or another leader, than the bishop can call the armed individual and direct them to where they are needed (obviously people are to call 911 or other countries’ emergency numbers).

Also I think it very, very important that those who are choosing to do so know each other is doing this, especially if any are not coming on a regular basis, so there is no mistaking of who the threat is and so they can coordinate efforts. If we are truly going to rely on such to protect our wards, then perhaps this needs to be a semi assignment so at least one person is always there.

Edited September 30, 2025 by Calm

[Calm]

3 hours ago, bsjkki said:

Interesting survey from Pew on this topic. They don’t like us but we like them. Very Christian of us. I think this is accurate. 
 

 

I much prefer this position for us rather than the most liked by others while not liking the others the most. I am very, very proud of my community that we have kept the capacity to like and love others not believing like us (generally speaking) even when they have not returned the same attitude.

[Calm]

3 hours ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

We're acting like the dorky kid in school that lets everybody treat him like a doormat in an effort to join a clique that has no intention of ever letting him enter.

Or we are following the admonition of Christ to live our neighbors. 
 

How could you tell the difference, I wonder?

[Calm]

2 hours ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

We should still be kind, but with more backbone.

In what way?  I don’t see our efforts to care for others lacking in backbone. In fact, it can take courage to reach out and try and work with those who don’t like you.

[Calm]

3 hours ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

We should still be kind, but with more backbone.

How many have practiced "peacemaking" has many seeing us a pushovers who really won't make a bold stand for ourselves. They know that if we give even the slightest push back they can say, "Tsk, tsk, you're being mean." and we'll immediately back down.

When have you seen members backing down or the Church (thinking of temple controversies where the ‘you are not being a good neighbor is often used without stopping the Church from getting its priorities met even if they adapt up to a certain reasonable point)?

Serious question, not challenging, trying to understand your view. 

Edited September 30, 2025 by Calm

[Calm]

2 hours ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

 

 

This is brilliant, helping the innocent child and family of the shooter.   It says the link is below in the description, but there is no description. Can you see the link and share it, please?

added:  found in comments…

https://www.givesendgo.com/helptheSanfordfamily

Edited September 30, 2025 by Calm

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

We should still be kind, but with more backbone.

How many have practiced "peacemaking" has many seeing us a pushovers who really won't make a bold stand for ourselves. They know that if we give even the slightest push back they can say, "Tsk, tsk, you're being mean." and we'll immediately back down.

That is not the reason we aren’t liked though. It is also self-flattery about being “too nice”.

I think being seen as bold is more about ego than anything else. It is the desire to be liked and respected which Jesus warned about. The whole bit about if you were of the world they would love you.

Not sure how true it is. Many people who are ‘of the world’ are still disliked and despised.

[california boy]

3 hours ago, bluebell said:

Maybe this would be a post for a separate topic?  There's a lot to discuss but you are right, this isn't the thread to do it.

I agree. I was hoping I made it clear I didn’t want to derail this thread. But I did want to make the point that and hopefully people will actually think about what they find unChrist like in others may be something they should consider in their own beliefs.   
 

Carry on

Edited September 30, 2025 by california boy

[Okrahomer]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

This is brilliant, helping the innocent child and family of the shooter.   It says the link is below in the description, but there is no description. Can you see the link and share it, please?

added:  found in comments…

https://www.givesendgo.com/helptheSanfordfamily

It did not take long for more than $50,000 to be raised -- the goal is now $100,000.  Some of the messages people are leaving are very wise.  If the family is able to read through them all, I think they will feel very loved.

Edited September 30, 2025 by Okrahomer

[ZealouslyStriving]

56 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

That is not the reason we aren’t liked though. It is also self-flattery about being “too nice”.

I think being seen as bold is more about ego than anything else. It is the desire to be liked and respected which Jesus warned about. The whole bit about if you were of the world they would love you.

Not sure how true it is. Many people who are ‘of the world’ are still disliked and despised.

https://babylonbee.com/news/mormons-respond-to-attack-by-continuing-to-be-amazingly-kind-to-everyone?fbclid=IwdGRjcANJIY5jbGNrA0khemV4dG4DYWVtAjExAAEeg_x7r41I0mmbn6NsePQ-xHlxXV4H1pDwNHhydwP1vbOzdXqoEXPdxrmIhk4_aem_OKOC0hyJKJ58-Fp-ghY2Sg

** Now, obviously, they are not hating on us. But others see it as a trait of which to take advantage.

Jesus, nor our prophets and apostles, have said, "Thou shalt be a doormat."**

Edited September 30, 2025 by ZealouslyStriving

[Calm]

19 minutes ago, Okrahomer said:

It did not take long for more than $50,000 to be raised -- the goal is now $100,000.

Wow, when I looked just a bit ago, it was 38,000$.  So glad to see this.

[Calm]

38 minutes ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

https://babylonbee.com/news/mormons-respond-to-attack-by-continuing-to-be-amazingly-kind-to-everyone?fbclid=IwdGRjcANJIY5jbGNrA0khemV4dG4DYWVtAjExAAEeg_x7r41I0mmbn6NsePQ-xHlxXV4H1pDwNHhydwP1vbOzdXqoEXPdxrmIhk4_aem_OKOC0hyJKJ58-Fp-ghY2Sg

** Now, obviously, they are not hating on us. But others see it as a trait of which to take advantage.

Jesus, nor our prophets and apostles, have said, "Thou shalt be a doormat."**

I am assuming you are using babylonbee, which is the LDS (oops, Christian) version of The Onion, a satire site, as showing how we are seen by ourselves and others as opposed to actual evidence…always love an excuse to read the Babylon.  And I think it would be delightful if this actually happened.  Who doesn’t love enchiladas and no one deserves them more than the bomb squad, imo (my husband’s mother was famous for her enchilada casserole).

Edited September 30, 2025 by Calm

[ZealouslyStriving]

8 minutes ago, Calm said:

I am assuming you are using babylonbee, which is the LDS version of The Onion, a satire site, as showing how we are seen by ourselves and others as opposed to actual evidence…always love an excuse to read the Babylon.  And I think it would be delightful if this actually happened.  Who doesn’t love enchiladas and no one deserves them more than the bomb squad, imo (my husband’s mother was famous for her enchilada casserole).

CFR that the Babylon Bee is LDS run.

[Calm]

4 minutes ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

CFR that the Babylon Bee is LDS run.

No, you are right.  My bad, I knew it was a Christian site, but it’s been awhile since I visited and I mostly view their LDS articles so that “Bee” in its name always has me going to LDS (I used to work at a Beehive Books for one thing).

It is still a satire and is about perception and not reality, so not sure what your point is in using it.

[JAHS]

The sign still says "Visitors Welcome", regardless of what people think of us.

[ZealouslyStriving]

9 minutes ago, Calm said:

about perception

That was my point.

(I feel like I am being gaslit at this point.)

[JVW]

On 9/29/2025 at 4:14 PM, Duncan said:

Statement from President Oaks

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/president-dallin-h-oaks-statement-grand-blanc-michigan

Quote

“Our hearts are heavy with sorrow. Millions of us are mourning the passing of our beloved Prophet and President, Russell M. Nelson. He was a dear friend and a cherished leader. His timeless teachings continue to guide us and help us find comfort amid suffering, especially in the wake of the recent violence aimed at members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Michigan this past Sunday.

“The awful tragedy that took place in Grand Blanc, Michigan, on September 28, reminds us of our sacred responsibilities as followers of Jesus Christ. We mourn with our members who have lost loved ones, and we join in prayer for comfort with others around the world who are suffering from similar tragedies. We all seek answers and understanding in the wake of trauma, shock, and grief. We are grateful to all who are reaching out with service, prayers, and words of support during this difficult time.

“May we all remember the truth that each of us is a beloved child of God. Our Savior Jesus Christ, through His infinite Atonement, overcame death and gives us the joyful assurance that each of us will be gloriously resurrected. On behalf of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I extend this expression to the family and friends of those affected by this recent tragedy and all others who may be experiencing loss and heartache at this time.”

Well, I told my wife about this statement as she hadn't heard about it by last night. She read it and now she is so mad she's seriously considering leaving the church. Just goes to show how different people can view things differently as I thought it was a pretty safe, nice type of statement. Her points were as follows:

- Why couldn't he have made separate statements? Why lump in grieving for President Nelson with this tragic event in Michigan?

- "We mourn with our members who have lost loved ones, and we join in prayer for comfort with others around the world who are suffering from similar tragedies." This was the line that really did her in.

It was an act of terror that directly impacted our church and was in a very specific place and he couldn't make a statement specifically for those people. There is no condemnation of the attack. The event is tragic, but it's addressed in the context of President Nelson's passing and other generic terror attacks that occur worldwide. She thinks it would have been better for him to do separate messages. A message of mourning for Nelson. A message of condemnation and support for the saints impacted in Michigan. And a message of support and prayer for those worldwide who are suffering from "similar tragedies" and "all others who may be experiencing loss and heartache at this time" (i.e. nearly everyone in existence around the world).

I think she makes a pretty good point. And I can't say that I blame her for being upset by this response.

[bsjkki]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

Wow, when I looked just a bit ago, it was 38,000$.  So glad to see this.

I just don’t want the victims accounts to not get the same love. There are many of those. 
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/local/michigan/2025/09/30/family-friends-grand-blanc-church-attack-victims-launch-online-fundraisers/86436711007/#

https://gofund.me/7ca4303d2

https://gofund.me/56d726f45

 

 

Edited September 30, 2025 by bsjkki

[bsjkki]

Utah State bomb threat. 

Edited September 30, 2025 by bsjkki

[bluebell]

53 minutes ago, JVW said:

Well, I told my wife about this statement as she hadn't heard about it by last night. She read it and now she is so mad she's seriously considering leaving the church. Just goes to show how different people can view things differently as I thought it was a pretty safe, nice type of statement. Her points were as follows:

- Why couldn't he have made separate statements? Why lump in grieving for President Nelson with this tragic event in Michigan?

- "We mourn with our members who have lost loved ones, and we join in prayer for comfort with others around the world who are suffering from similar tragedies." This was the line that really did her in.

It was an act of terror that directly impacted our church and was in a very specific place and he couldn't make a statement specifically for those people. There is no condemnation of the attack. The event is tragic, but it's addressed in the context of President Nelson's passing and other generic terror attacks that occur worldwide. She thinks it would have been better for him to do separate messages. A message of mourning for Nelson. A message of condemnation and support for the saints impacted in Michigan. And a message of support and prayer for those worldwide who are suffering from "similar tragedies" and "all others who may be experiencing loss and heartache at this time" (i.e. nearly everyone in existence around the world).

I think she makes a pretty good point. And I can't say that I blame her for being upset by this response.

I can see her point. At the same time, though if he had released three separate statements, I think they would’ve gotten lost in the shuffle. I don’t think any news source would cover all three, for one thing.

I personally like that he lumped it all together because it reminded me that nothing that happened in Michigan is unique to our church or the world. I kind of liked not being singled out.  It made me feel more kinship for those who have struggled in the name of their religion throughout history.  I think I would’ve been disappointed if he, as a future prophet for the entire world, portrayed the idea that it’s more noteworthy when violence happens to us than when it happens to others. 

But I get why someone would see a differently.  For those who personally lost loved ones or were injured, and those who are just dealing with the traumatic after effects of it all because they were there or have loved ones who were, a more personalized message might be what they need most.

Edited September 30, 2025 by bluebell

[bsjkki]

51 minutes ago, Calm said:

No, you are right.  My bad, I knew it was a Christian site, but it’s been awhile since I visited and I mostly view their LDS articles so that “Bee” in its name always has me going to LDS (I used to work at a Beehive Books for one thing).

It is still a satire and is about perception and not reality, so not sure what your point is in using it.

Memes are memes. Satire/stereotypes

 

 

[bluebell]

14 minutes ago, bsjkki said:

Memes are memes. Satire/stereotypes

 

 

Yes!  I’d rather be known for being too kind. 

[Calm]

On 9/30/2025 at 3:43 PM, ZealouslyStriving said:

That was my point.

(I feel like I am being gaslit at this point.)

I thought your point was we have no backbone, not that we are perceived as not having a backbone…

Since the Church does not always backdown (temple plans, for example) I don’t see that as a correct assumption for the Church as an organization.

We are taught to forgive and love others and sometimes that does translate to being too nice, imo….such as making excuses for a person who has been known to have child porn to be allowed around children or being advised not to pursue another member for fraud charges (both cases I have heard about from people I know well).  I can see why some might interpret this behaviour as having no backbone, though to me it is more about fearing harming others’ faith journey, wanting to be supportive of the repentant (while being a bit too trusting that they are repentant).  So I guess I would say we can be too trusting and too supportive sometimes of people who don’t deserve it….or rather shouldn’t be given if for their own good and others.

Edited October 3, 2025 by Calm

[Calm]

57 minutes ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

 

(I feel like I am being gaslit at this point.)

No, just me struggling to understand today.  I don’t do deception as that would defeat my whole purpose of posting…or living for that matter since deception increases confusion, not knowledge.

If you ever feel I am trying to play mind games with you or otherwise be deceptive, please try to remember my brain just works differently than many due to nature and training and these days doesn’t always process things that well without a lot of time (I often have to tell people to repeat things when talking to me because I hear them but can’t identify the words…Fibro and age make life much more complicated).

Edited September 30, 2025 by Calm

[Tony uk]

I just wanted to respond, with regards to some of the posts. I do so, as an outsider looking in. What I say, I do so as a mid fifties RC. In the various forms of contact I have had with LdS, either in person, or through various media. LdS are people that I have always felt the most comfortable with. A strong commitment to faith, with a knowledge based of faith. Kind, friendly, supportive, attitudes shown to all people not just within their own community. The attributes that I have found, have not been in any weakness, but from an inner strength. The respect that I have for all LdS, has grown in the last year that I have been able to be on this forum. 

 Rather than people attacking LdS, in whatever form. Either through action or word, is done out of ignorance, imo.