Shooting at church in Grand Blanc Michigan. Pray

[Calm]

Eyewitness descriptions:

 

https://www.deseret.com/faith/2025/09/29/an-eyewitness-account-from-michigan-latter-day-saints-under-gunfire-fought-to-save-each-other/

The header says everyone is accounted for and no more deaths, but haven’t gotten there yet.

added:  Update thread:

https://www.deseret.com/live/michigan-latter-day-saint-church-shooting-updates/

Quote

They did say they have a 21-year-old in custody after the person drove through a barricade near the church. They do not know if the incident was related to the initial church attack.

Investigators have interviewed over 100 victims and witnesses, said Ruben Coleman, the FBI's acting special agent in charge for the Detroit field office. Coleman said teams are running down tips and asked the public for more tips via 1-800-CALL-FBI or tips.fbi.gov.

The ATF's National Response Team, a special unit of investigators with expertise in arson and explosives, continues to sift through the embers and rubble of the meetinghouse to evaluate what happened, said James Dier, special agent in charge with the Detroit field division of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

Genesee County Sheriff Christopher Swanson said 31 marked cars are patrolling the county to watch over schools and churches in an effort "to settle the community and bring a sense of calmness to people. There is an uncertainty."

Michigan Gov. Gretchen Whitmer offered support for Latter-day Saints. She has ordered flags lowered throughout the state in solidarity.

 

Quote

The most important new piece of information at the press conference was that all Latter-day Saints who were in the building during Sunday's attack are now accounted for and there were no additional victims, according to Chief Bill Renye of the Grand Blanc Township Police Department.

Dr. Michael Danic, the medical chief of staff at Henry Ford Genesys Hospital, said his teams treated eight patients from the church between the ages of 6 and 78. Five have been treated for gunshot wounds and three for smoke inhalation.

One victim died in the emergency department, Dr. Danic said. Another victim sustained multiple gunshots to the chest and abdomen and is in critical condition.

A third person is in critical condition for a gunshot wound to the abdomen.

The other two gunshot victims were a man shot in the ankle and a 6-year-old girl shot in the arm. She was stabilized and transferred to another facility "out of an abundance of caution," Dr. Danic said.

 

Edited September 29, 2025 by Calm

[InCognitus]

4 hours ago, bluebell said:

I was thinking the same thing. If there are people still missing then that doesn’t bode well.  

A report I just read said all victims involved in the shooting and fire have now been accounted for:  "Everyone now accounted for after attack on Michigan church left 4 dead, officials say":  https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/church-shooting-fire-michigan-09-29-25

ETA:  Calm was posting at the same time, double information.

 

Edited September 29, 2025 by InCognitus

[Benjamin McGuire]

2 hours ago, bluebell said:

I wonder if these are her words or if she is sharing a quote?

It wasn't original to her. This whole thing was making the rounds on social media several days before she reposted it.

[Calm]

More info on the son:

Intentionally not posting the son’s name…there is no mention of a wife or exwife so far that I have seen…I assume the shooter was not the primary caregiver though.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/what-we-know-thomas-jacob-sanford-suspect-michigan-church-shooting-rcna234309

Quote

his battle with congenital hyperinsulinism, a rare condition in which the insulin cells of the pancreas produce too much insulin.

Quote

Congenital hyperinsulinism causes low plasma sugar (hypoglycemia).The symptoms of hypoglycemia in infants are often difficult to identify, as they can be similar to normal infant activities.

Common symptoms of hypoglycemia include:

• irritability
• sleepiness
• lethargy
• excessive hunger
• rapid heart rate 

More severe symptoms, such as seizures and coma, can occur with a prolonged low plasma sugar or an extremely low plasma sugar. Common symptoms of hypoglycemia in older children include feelings of shakiness, weakness, tiredness, confusion, and rapid heart rate.

We consider a normal plasma sugar to be >70 mg/dL. Anything less than 60 mg/dL is low, although severe symptoms due to hypoglycemia are not likely unless the plasma sugar is less than 50 mg/dL. Prolonged or severe low plasma sugar can cause seizures and permanent brain damage. 

https://www.chop.edu/conditions-diseases/congenital-hyperinsulinism

[Duncan]

Statement from President Oaks

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/president-dallin-h-oaks-statement-grand-blanc-michigan

[bluebell]

1 hour ago, Benjamin McGuire said:

It wasn't original to her. This whole thing was making the rounds on social media several days before she reposted it.

Thanks. I was assuming that but wasn’t sure. Those types of posts are a dime-a-dozen these days. 

[Chum]

8 hours ago, Calm said:

9 hours ago, Kenngo1969 said:

Who among us never has said, “I’m so angry [or fill in the blank with emotion here] that I could just k!ll [another person]”

I don’t think I have ever said that unless as a child before I understood what it actually meant, but in many ways I have a literal mind.  

I grew up with hill people. If that was ever said, it was meant. It was occasionally said and awful things followed.

If I had ever expressed I could kill someone, my friends would have locked me down until they were sure it wouldn't happen. They'd be more worried more about me than the other party tho.

[JVW]

40 minutes ago, Duncan said:

Statement from President Oaks

https://newsroom.churchofjesuschrist.org/article/president-dallin-h-oaks-statement-grand-blanc-michigan

That was a very well written statement. Very appropriate and sensitive at this time.

[Chum]

2 hours ago, JVW said:

I agree with you. If the church doesn't update it's policy or provide resources for security, even if everyone in the congregation were armed it wouldn't provide a deterrence because the church's official policy is "no guns are allowed inside a meetinghouse" so the assumption will be that nobody is carrying inside a church building.

After a few decades of living in a country that allowed terrorists to redefine it at some pretty fundamental levels (ex:forever increasing, persistent surveillance state) there's a lesson in the stats.

It doesn't make us safer. 

[Pyreaux]

CBS News article, the apparent motive for the Grand Blanc church attack centers on a personal grievance and a hatred toward the LDS faith stemming from the shooter's grievance with a Utah relationship with an LDS woman.

White House Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt stated on Fox News that FBI Director Kash Patel told her the suspect, Thomas Jacob "Jake" Sanford, "hated people of the Mormon faith."

A local political candidate, Kris Johns, who met Sanford last week, told CBS News that Sanford had a strong dislike for the LDS church. Sanford reportedly shared that he moved to Utah for a fresh start, where he started a relationship with a Latter-day Saint woman.

According to Johns' recollection, Sanford stated that the woman and her community "wanted me to get rid of my tattoos. They wanted me to do all this stuff, and I wouldn't do it." This refusal to conform, coupled with his alleged belief that church followers "believe they're above Jesus," fueled his specific animosity toward the faith.

Johns emphasized that Sanford did not mention Charlie Kirk, Donald Trump, or any current political figures to him, despite the political signage found near his home.

In essence, the emerging motive suggests the attack was a revenge fantasy rooted in a personal, painful rejection experienced in Utah, which the shooter generalized into a hatred for the entire LDS faith.

Edited September 30, 2025 by Pyreaux

[Chum]

23 minutes ago, Pyreaux said:

Johns emphasized that Sanford did not mention Charlie Kirk, Guy, or any current political figures to him, despite the political signage found near his home.

The recounting by that candidate was helpful.  I was (personally) theorizing this was retaliation for the Kirk assassination. I now think that is unlikely.

The candidate also mentioned that the perp was talking rapidly and [in my take] delivering his anti-LDS scree with some forcefulness.  Content + delivery says manic phase to me. 

[Calm]

2 hours ago, Chum said:

I was (personally) theorizing this was retaliation for the Kirk assassination. I now think that is unlikely.

The candidate also mentioned that the perp was talking rapidly and [in my take] delivering his anti-LDS scree with some forcefulness.  Content + delivery says manic phase to me. 

The Kirk incident might have brought his frustrations/complaints to the front of his mind even if nothing but having “LDS” and “Mormon” in the news made a difference.  I say that because it seems to have been planned ahead of time, so it’s unlikely it was Pres Nelson’s death being in the News that contributed, at least initially.  Having good things said about Pres Nelson might have intensified the shooter’s anger though.

[bsjkki]

 

[bsjkki]

Thelma Armstrong was found deceased in the rubble.

[ZealouslyStriving]

27 minutes ago, Calm said:

The Kirk incident might have brought his frustrations/complaints to the front of his mind even if nothing but having “LDS” and “Mormon” in the news made a difference.  I say that because it seems to have been planned ahead of time, so it’s unlikely it was Pres Nelson’s death being in the News that contributed, at least initially.  Having good things said about Pres Nelson might have intensified the shooter’s anger though.

I'm guessing it was a combination of things (including anti-Mormon rhetoric, Charlie Kirk shooter background, praise for Pres. Nelson, etc...) because having a bad experience with the Church and an ex in Utah from more than 10 years ago can't be THE explanation. It all just came to a boiling point.

[Pyreaux]

37 minutes ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

I'm guessing it was a combination of things (including anti-Mormon rhetoric, Charlie Kirk shooter background, praise for Pres. Nelson, etc...) because having a bad experience with the Church and an ex in Utah from more than 10 years ago can't be THE explanation. It all just came to a boiling point.

He could have plotted it for years. The Utah civil rent dispute, assuming Thomas Jacob Sanford was likely the renter, the most likely reason it would be a landlord filing an eviction, an "unlawful detainer" action, to regain possession of a property, usually because the tenant has either failed to pay rent or violated a material term of the lease.

If Sanford's move to Utah was for a "fresh start" that then involved a relationship with an LDS woman and ended in a conflict where he refused to conform (e.g., getting rid of his tattoos), a subsequent eviction would represent a concrete, deeply personal public failure.

The forced loss of housing due to an eviction, combined with the personal rejection over his non-conformity, would have solidified his feeling that the LDS community was responsible for the failure of his new life in Utah, directly feeding the reported motive.

He took out a mortgage loan on his Michigan property in 2021. This suggests the Utah dispute occurred sometime prior to or around 2021. He's been simmering for at least 4 years. 

[Calm]

1 hour ago, bsjkki said:

 

I appreciated this from him.  Couldn’t have been easy given the stress he is likely under.

 

[gurn]

I’m a licensed concealed carry holder, but can’t carry in church due to church policy and state law. The reality is Salt Lake would rather I take a bullet than be prepared to defend my family and others.

[Pyreaux]

Well, fact that the shooter was equipped with an assault rifle, multiple IEDs, and chose a solid Sunday morning time strongly suggests a long-awaited plot to maximize casualties.

The Ex-Mormons gave an unconfirmed report that the Grand Blanc Stake Conference was originally scheduled for the day of the shooting September 28th and then moved. This comes from a user comment on the r/exmormon subreddit;

"I live in the area. They were not having stake conference. They were going to have it yesterday, but two weeks ago moved it to a later date."

If true, a minor miracle that he just missed the larger Stake Conference, perhaps he may have even tried to target the conference and failed.

For the non-LDS:

The Church was the Grand Blanc Michigan Stake Center which is designed to be regional hub for multiple congregations (Wards/Branches), as Stake Conference would be during a peak "crossover" meeting time when the total number of people on site is at its highest, encompassing a vast number of children, youth, and adults with overflow of seats set up in to the Culture Hall. This number would be vastly greater than attending a simple, single-Ward meetinghouse.

The attacker may have planned for a larger crowd of multiple Wards. Unlike the General Conferences, Stake Conferences times are set at the local level and do not happen on a single, standardized global date.

It is an unverified account being shared. It is not an official statement from the Church or law enforcement. Is anyone able to verify that there was a Conference scheduled for the 28th and then moved?

Edited September 30, 2025 by Pyreaux

[Chum]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

The Kirk incident might have brought his frustrations/complaints to the front of his mind even if nothing but having “LDS” and “Mormon” in the news made a difference.  I say that because it seems to have been planned ahead of time, so it’s unlikely it was Pres Nelson’s death being in the News that contributed, at least initially.  Having good things said about Pres Nelson might have intensified the shooter’s anger though.

Some of these things are possible but I don't want to read in to it. We seem to be getting a clearish picture even if a few of the key details are missing. 

[The Nehor]

Sounds like a typical displacement thing over a failed relationship. After a bad break-up it is easy to maintain the idea that it would have worked if it wasn’t for those ‘meddling kids and their dog’. In other words a belief she would have accepted him if she wasn’t get pressured by her friends and family. It is easier to hate people you don’t care about than the person you wanted to be with. This lets him tell the story that he and his ex are tragic lovers torn apart by external forces and the external forces must pay.

[Calm]

On 9/29/2025 at 7:28 PM, gurn said:

The reality is Salt Lake would rather I take a bullet than be prepared to defend my family and others.

Or maybe they would rather someone not be accidentally injured by someone thinking they could effectively defend their family and others (not saying this is specifically you, but would not be surprised if it was a significant percentage) or lead more people to brings guns to confront others when words would have been seen as sufficient before, thus increasing violence, not deterring it.  There is debate whether conceal carry decreases or increases violence, studies for both positions are numerous.  Methodology can be problematic (self reporting is not particularly trustworthy, inconsistent reporting across jurisdictions, etc).

Edited October 3, 2025 by Calm

[Calm]

6 minutes ago, Chum said:

Some of these things are possible but I don't want to read in to it. We seem to be getting a clearish picture even if a few of the key details are missing. 

Yes, my mind is too undisciplined the last few days.  Too easy to speculate without any real foundation.

[Chum]

If we want fewer attacks, less poisonous vitriol seems like surest way to get there.
What we have the most power to effect - it's the flavors that align with what we believe.

[bluebell]

2 minutes ago, Chum said:

If we want fewer attacks, less poisonous vitriol seems like surest way to get there.
What we have the most power to effect - it's the flavors that align with what we believe.

We also need to realize the role that social media is playing in increasing our hatred for groups we disagree with and actually do something to get out from underneath its manipulative thumb.  Algorithms that cater to our biases are going to be our downfall.