Question about D&C 138 and the Role of Faithful Women in the Spirit World

[ZealouslyStriving]

28 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

That’s a convenient position for a man to take. I think women being relegated to one role as mother and homemaker with no options has been largely AMAZING- for men. 

Way to totally misrepresent what he said! Bravo! 👏🏻 👏🏻👏🏻

[teddyaware]

1 hour ago, MustardSeed said:

That’s a convenient position for a man to take. I think women being relegated to one role as mother and homemaker with no options has been largely AMAZING- for men. 

Do you believe The Family, a Proclamation to the World is inspired of God? If not, there’s nothing left for us to discuss on this thread because there’s no common ground on which to construct worthwhile dialogue.

[ZealouslyStriving]

2 minutes ago, teddyaware said:

Do you believe The Family, a Proclamation to the World is inspired of God? If not, there’s nothing left for us to discuss on this thread because there’s no common ground on which to construct worthwhile dialogue.

Speaking of the Family Proclamation- I think some people might be right in thinking that it will be up for canonization in just over a week. There has been a noticeable uptick in the Apostles talking about it over the last week or so.

[bluebell]

8 hours ago, teddyaware said:

In the eternal scheme of things it most certainly is an illusion. How does one compare 75 to 80 years of life on earth with the infinite expanse of eternity? And just look at what the masses of women wanting to become interchangeable with men has produced in our world:. Motherhood is demeaned and mocked as traditional marriage is rapidly becoming passe. Instead of focusing on the vastly more important issues of faith in Christ, spiritual growth, personal moral development and the overriding importance of creating healthy marriages and families, there is an intense focus on making the roles of men and women exactly equivalent, a corrupt doctrine of a spiritually blind society that is going to lead to the destruction of a world that is already rapidly ripening in iniquity. Ultimately, this tragic phenomenon of a world gone off the rails is the consequence of foolish human pride, the loss of eternal perspective and the deceptions of the adversary that appeal to the carnal mind. Watch and see the consequences of this anti-family garbage as we now enter the years of great tribulation that will precede the Second Coming of Christ. What started as a movement to correct some inequities in the workplace has morphed into a powerful, sweeping tide of anti-life and anti-family destruction.

We warn that individuals who violate covenants of chastity, who abuse spouse or offspring, or who fail to fulfill family responsibilities will one day stand accountable before God. Further, we warn that the disintegration of the family will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations the calamities foretold by ancient and modern prophets. (The Family, a Proclamation to the World)

Equality doesn't mean wanting to be interchangeable with men though, and it's not just inequalities in the workplace that is being spoken of.  

 

[bluebell]

5 hours ago, ZealouslyStriving said:

Way to totally misrepresent what he said! Bravo! 👏🏻 👏🏻👏🏻

Did you mind when he misrepresented what she said?  Sincere question.

[let’s roll]

13 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

I think women being relegated to one role as mother and homemaker with no options has been largely AMAZING- for men.

I respect your feelings.  I admit this saddens me.  I consider motherhood to be the preeminent role in all of mortality.  I admit to being envious.  If I had the power to choose any role in mortality, I would choose motherhood. I also consider my mother to be my hero and exemplar. 

I consider motherhood an elevated, not relegated, role.  I wish you Godspeed.

[MustardSeed]

1 hour ago, let’s roll said:

 I wish you Godspeed.

You’re wishing me luck in which endeavor? 

[let’s roll]

31 minutes ago, MustardSeed said:

You’re wishing me luck in which endeavor? 

Godspeed—an expression of good wishes to a person starting a journey.

Good wishes to you on the remainder of your mortal journey and the entirety of your journey in the hereafter.

[MustardSeed]

4 hours ago, let’s roll said:

Godspeed—an expression of good wishes to a person starting a journey.

Good wishes to you on the remainder of your mortal journey and the entirety of your journey in the hereafter.

Thank you!  And you as well. ❤️

[GoCeltics]

On 9/24/2025 at 11:51 AM, CV75 said:

The faithful elders in verse 57 can preach whether resurrected or not.

Spring-boarding off verse 51, verses 52 - 56 show that the big picture applies to all choice spirits, both men and women, resurrected and not.

Where does verse 57 indicate the elders are resurrected?

[CV75]

2 hours ago, GoCeltics said:

Where does verse 57 indicate the elders are resurrected?

57 follows previous verses that say they (and women) may be or may not be resurrected while preaching int he spirit world, but that they eventually will be. So, they can preach the gospel in the spirit world in either estate. Jesus spoke to the righteous spirits before His and their resurrection; the righteous spirts preach before and after their resurrection as the case may be.

[teddyaware]

9 minutes ago, CV75 said:

57 follows previous verses that say they (and women) may be or may not be resurrected while preaching int he spirit world, but that they eventually will be. So, they can preach the gospel in the spirit world in either estate. Jesus spoke to the righteous spirits before His and their resurrection; the righteous spirts preach before and after their resurrection as the case may be.

You make a very good point. If the pre-mortal spirit world was and still is inhabited by both spirits and resurrected beings, there’s no reason to suppose that the post-mortal spirit world can’t also include ministering resurrected men and women. Kudos!

[GoCeltics]

On 9/26/2025 at 11:24 AM, CV75 said:

57 follows previous verses that say they (and women) may be or may not be resurrected while preaching int he spirit world, but that they eventually will be. So, they can preach the gospel in the spirit world in either estate. Jesus spoke to the righteous spirits before His and their resurrection; the righteous spirts preach before and after their resurrection as the case may be.

According to verse 51 all those in paradise were resurrected, entered their Father’s kingdom, and became exalted. They did not return back to the spirit world. Verse 57 following 51 does not mean those male elders in the latter were resurrected too.

[CV75]

1 hour ago, GoCeltics said:

According to verse 51 all those in paradise were resurrected, entered their Father’s kingdom, and became exalted. They did not return back to the spirit world. Verse 57 following 51 does not mean those male elders in the latter were resurrected too.

It depends on how you read individual verses in relation to and in context of the whole section and other scriptures, I guess. If your interpretation is knowledge essential for our exaltation, please describe how. I don't necessarily see my interpretation as essential.

As to the thread title / OP, I see women as teaching in the spirit world, resurrected and not.

[GoCeltics]

On 9/29/2025 at 10:24 AM, CV75 said:

As to the thread title / OP, I see women as teaching in the spirit world, resurrected and not.

Female elders who die in this dispensation?

[CV75]

39 minutes ago, GoCeltics said:

Female elders who die in this dispensation?

Of course.

[CV75]

On 10/2/2025 at 10:13 AM, CV75 said:

Of course.

@GoCeltics  that is, if there are any...

Also, there are "elder daughters", those daughters of Eve in this dispensation who have entered the spirit world before their contemporaries and posterity, some of whom are resurrected. Women do not require a priesthood office to be "clothed with power and authority" to be "chosen messengers" organized by the prophets through the ages (of every age).

Edited October 4, 2025 by CV75

[Rain]

On 9/22/2025 at 6:26 PM, teddyaware said:

For the truly spiritual and holy, the only acknowledgment that’s needed is God’s approbation. The Savior testified that those who serve God quietly and, as it were, in secret will be openly rewarded when God says, “well done thou good and faithful servant!” It’s the unconverted and spiritually shallow who crave the honors of men rather than the approval of God.

There is a wide space between God's approbation and craving the honors of men. I don't think needing a lift of acknowledgement from our fellow men necessarily means the person is lacking holiness.  Afterall, President Kimball even said sometimes God gives us help through other people. So tecnically, that is still God, but who is to be the decider of when that acknowledgement is not from God?

[Rain]

On 9/25/2025 at 10:05 PM, let’s roll said:

I respect your feelings.  I admit this saddens me.  I consider motherhood to be the preeminent role in all of mortality.  I admit to being envious.  If I had the power to choose any role in mortality, I would choose motherhood. I also consider my mother to be my hero and exemplar. 

I consider motherhood an elevated, not relegated, role.  I wish you Godspeed.

Why do you not feel the same about fatherhood? My husband and I worked along together in raising our children.  As a stay at home mom I obviously spent far more time with or children, but the bond I felt between my husband and our children and what I saw of them together is beauriful, and is not less than I had with them. 

[teddyaware]

14 minutes ago, Rain said:

There is a wide space between God's approbation and craving the honors of men. I don't think needing a lift of acknowledgement from our fellow men necessarily means the person is lacking holiness.  Afterall, President Kimball even said sometimes God gives us help through other people. So tecnically, that is still God, but who is to be the decider of when that acknowledgement is not from God?

Of course. There’s a large gulf in attitude that exists between those whose primary motivation is to seek for the honors and rewards of men, and the meek and lowly saints of God who appreciate receiving sincere encouragement and positive reinforcement from their fellow saints to continue faithful while advancing forward on the strait and narrow path.

[The Nehor]

On 10/2/2025 at 8:34 AM, GoCeltics said:

Female elders who die in this dispensation?

LOL

[let’s roll]

10 hours ago, Rain said:

Why do you not feel the same about fatherhood? My husband and I worked along together in raising our children.  As a stay at home mom I obviously spent far more time with or children, but the bond I felt between my husband and our children and what I saw of them together is beauriful, and is not less than I had with them. 

Likely because I didn’t have a great relationship with my biological father.  He left my mother with 5 children under the age of 12 and provided neither alimony nor child support.  Nevertheless, we children had a great childhood, almost exclusively because of my mother.

[GoCeltics]

On 10/4/2025 at 10:54 AM, CV75 said:

@GoCeltics  that is, if there are any...

Also, there are "elder daughters", those daughters of Eve in this dispensation who have entered the spirit world before their contemporaries and posterity, some of whom are resurrected. Women do not require a priesthood office to be "clothed with power and authority" to be "chosen messengers" organized by the prophets through the ages (of every age).

Are women elders?

[ZealouslyStriving]

15 minutes ago, GoCeltics said:

Are women elders?

When they get old. 🤭

[CV75]

3 hours ago, GoCeltics said:

Are women elders?

In the sense that women are not given a priesthood office, no. But in the sense I explained above, yes.