Outrage dopamine and President Nelson’s warning

[MustardSeed]

April 20 23 President Nelson gave a stirring conference address inviting us to be very careful about how angry we get when interacting online.  

This was a call to change for me. In fact, there were many conversations on this site about that address.

Lots of talk lately about the power of dopamine, and how getting stirred up into our own feelings of anger, gives that massive rush.  Social media moguls have found a way to harness our emotions and feed their bottom line.  
 

I largely failed in my commitment to stop allowing myself to get emotionally worked up online. I have improved, but I have not gotten to where I know I should be. 
 

Any thoughts on this topic? 

[JVW]

I'm reminded of the CGPGrey video about this topic, it's an oldie but a goodie and runs 6 minutes long 

I'm naturally not a very emotional person so I tend to keep my composure well. Every once in awhile I'm in a bad mood and I'll say something uncouth or downright mean online. But I find that getting in a yelling argument in real life is so much more enjoyable when I gotta get rid of some sort of anger I'm feeling and I would highly encourage everyone to get at least one friend or family member with whom they can disagree with, yell at, and then continue being friends with afterwards. There is a lot lost in translation online, and typing angrily is just so empty and not satisfying. Arguing in real life and getting all of that adrenaline pumping and everything is 10/10, would recommend.

As far as how anger is used to make money. Well, see the video linked above, and also I would add that there isn't a single aspect of human psychology that is missed when it comes to a corporation wanting to make money. We are all so doomed. I blame it all on that one guy who literally wrote the book on propaganda who was the nephew of Sigmund Freud and worked in advertising in America. I don't recall his name at the moment and am behind on work at the moment.

I used to be heavily plugged into politics and the online town square. I don't doubt that at the time my feelings were being manipulated a lot by my social media feeds. This was during Covid times. Then one day I actually got sick with covid and for several days I was too sick to go online and look at stuff. When I got well enough to see what people were chatting about covid had vanished, seemingly overnight, from online discourse. The conversation had shifted abruptly to Ukraine/Russia, and that was eerie to me. Fast forward a few weeks and two of my neighbors visited me in their priesthood capacity as Ministers. One said he was so anxious and scared that Russia was going to nuke everyone and I wanted to give the poor guy a hug. I asked how the other brother was doing and he said, "Last week I prayed to God that He would kill Putin." I asked him if he'd ever prayed for the death of any other major political figure? He responded, "No, but I feel good about it." And it just made me feel so terrible to hear that. Here was a man, in my home, supposed to be representing Jesus, telling me he was praying for the death of another. That was the moment when I realized how powerful propaganda is, and that I'm not immune to its effects. Since that time I have significantly scaled back my online media consumption and am trying to eliminate the last vestiges of it by the end of the year. I have been much less angry as a result, and life has felt a little brighter and more hopeful.

My wife has an Irish temperament and she used to get so mad at me because I wouldn't get mad at her and yell back when she was having her temper flare up. I used to be the most pacifistic person on the planet. I've had to practice over time, in an environment where I can feel safe doing so, expressing myself when I'm feeling angry. Now my wife and can yell and scream at each other, have a great time, then cool off, have some dinner, and talk about the weather. It's so nice.

My last thought in this random collection of thoughts is this. Anger is a gift from God. As a society, we tend to think that feeling happy is good, feeling sad is bad, feeling anger is bad, feeling excited is good, etc. But all emotions we feel are gifts from God, and they all can serve a beautiful purpose to make life better and to accomplish tremendous things and make a difference. So if you ever feel angry, please don't hate yourself for it. Try and use it appropriately to bring the right amount of sharpness to your words and actions and practice using it in a righteous way. An emotion can be used as a virtue or a vice.

[Calm]

45 minutes ago, JVW said:

Arguing in real life and getting all of that adrenaline pumping and everything is 10/10

I feel that way to begin with and then when the adrenaline fades, it leaves me nauseated.  Not everyone reacts to adrenaline in the same way.  

Yelling can get rid of built up body tension too in my experience, so if you do have someone who sees such encounters as fun, maybe it could work.  Would have to be careful not to let your internal permissions to let go in this way cross into other engagements.

I think having a good physical workout that can provide a high or rush is better in the long run and you don’t need a very good friend either (to do it, it’s always good to have very good friends for other reasons).

My husband’s mother was a wonderful, loving woman, but came from a less educated family with unhealthy ideas of discipline.  She would let loose with her temper with the kids to the point it was abusive.  By the time I knew her, she knew better and controlled herself, but it’s left its mark on my husband. We will not ever have yelling matches even if I could probably handle it (there is a part of my brain that is always detached, so the rare—now very rare—times I yell, I am always getting this self appraisal happening, so I doubt I could actually lose myself in it).  I used to intentionally trigger his anger to get him out of sulking because he couldn’t express his anger and other negative feelings, but have since discovered the longterm effect wasn’t good (he was still fearing I would leave him after 20 years of marriage, I mean a bone deep primal fear that the abuse had left in him and my yelling triggered).

Edited September 15, 2025 by Calm

[Calm]

12 minutes ago, JVW said:

I blame it all on that one guy who literally wrote the book on propaganda who was the nephew of Sigmund Freud and worked in advertising in America. I don't recall his name at the moment and am behind on work at the moment.

Edward Bernays in 1928

[bluebell]

I've been listening to a talk a day from the last GC session (when I finish I just start over) and this morning Pres. Nelson's talk came on, and it was basically on the same topic.  I just kept thinking, if we could only do what he's asking us to do, what a force we could be for good in the world!  But if feels like we are becoming salt that has lost its savor.  Good for nothing.

 

[JAHS]

4 hours ago, MustardSeed said:

April 20 23 President Nelson gave a stirring conference address inviting us to be very careful about how angry we get when interacting online.  

This was a call to change for me. In fact, there were many conversations on this site about that address.

Lots of talk lately about the power of dopamine, and how getting stirred up into our own feelings of anger, gives that massive rush.  Social media moguls have found a way to harness our emotions and feed their bottom line.  
 

I largely failed in my commitment to stop allowing myself to get emotionally worked up online. I have improved, but I have not gotten to where I know I should be. 
 

Any thoughts on this topic? 

Start out by making sure you are correct before you speak. If you do your homework you can have a conversation confidently without getting angry. Some things can only be considered opinion. Know how to identify opinion verses facts.

[Rain]

One of the things I read not long ago really helped.  It was something along the lines of we all want the same things - to be healthy, happy, have friends, shelter, food, be safe etc.  When we recognize the other person wants that too it can help us see that we are all just people looking for happiness.

[The Nehor]

11 hours ago, Rain said:

One of the things I read not long ago really helped.  It was something along the lines of we all want the same things - to be healthy, happy, have friends, shelter, food, be safe etc.  When we recognize the other person wants that too it can help us see that we are all just people looking for happiness.

It is when that desire for security and happiness requires the privation of others that things tend to go bad and it takes very little to get to that point.

[Calm]

39 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

It is when that desire for security and happiness requires the privation of others that things tend to go bad and it takes very little to get to that point.

Too often we incorrectly assume that someone else’s desire for such things prevent us from having health, shelter, safety, etc when the reality is if we worked towards helping them get it, that would increase the chances of us being healthy, sheltered, safe, etc.  Often taking less for ourselves now and giving more to others means more for us in the long run (such as supporting medical research when we are young and healthy).

Not saying this should be the primary reasons for helping others, but just that considering this could help with the fear of losing out when looking at the short term.

Edited September 16, 2025 by Calm

[The Nehor]

31 minutes ago, Calm said:

Too often we incorrectly assume that someone else’s desire for such things prevent us from having health, shelter, safety, etc when the reality is if we worked towards helping them get it, that would increase the chances of us being healthy, sheltered, safe, etc.  Often taking less for ourselves now and giving more to others means more for us in the long run (such as supporting medical research when we are young and healthy).

True but that hasn’t been the case for most of history. For a long time the best bet was to grab all the stuff from other people to increase chance of survival with a partial exception about stealing stuff from your own tribal group since taking from them might mean being killed or ostracized.

A lot of the primary causes for conflict are obsolete in our world but our biology hasn’t caught up and likely won’t.

[bluebell]

18 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

True but that hasn’t been the case for most of history. For a long time the best bet was to grab all the stuff from other people to increase chance of survival with a partial exception about stealing stuff from your own tribal group since taking from them might mean being killed or ostracized.

A lot of the primary causes for conflict are obsolete in our world but our biology hasn’t caught up and likely won’t.

I think it has something to do with the natural man being an enemy to God and all that.

Our biological natures trend toward selfishness, bigotry, greed, lasciviousness,....

[The Nehor]

On 9/16/2025 at 4:36 PM, bluebell said:

I think it has something to do with the natural man being an enemy to God and all that.

Our biological natures trend toward selfishness, bigotry, greed, lasciviousness,....

But I like being lascivious.

[halconero]

I have come to believe that "Things as They Really Are," by Elder Bednar is one of the most consequential talks of this generation. Yes, people still have various motivations for getting angry or getting violent, but these are increasingly mediated through online experiences that facilitate hardened hearts, vicious words, and communities willing to indulge us in our beliefs rather than challenge them.

In regards to my own personal life and interactions with people holding various opinions or beliefs, I've come to appreciate the counsel Marcus Aurelius gave to himself in his journals:

Quote

It is possible to entertain no thought about this, and not to be troubled in spirit; for things of themselves are not so constituted as to create our judgements upon them.

I.e., it's possible to not have an opinion on everything or speak your mind on it.

[JVW]

28 minutes ago, halconero said:

I have come to believe that "Things as They Really Are," by Elder Bednar is one of the most consequential talks of this generation. Yes, people still have various motivations for getting angry or getting violent, but these are increasingly mediated through online experiences that facilitate hardened hearts, vicious words, and communities willing to indulge us in our beliefs rather than challenge them.

In regards to my own personal life and interactions with people holding various opinions or beliefs, I've come to appreciate the counsel Marcus Aurelius gave to himself in his journals:

I.e., it's possible to not have an opinion on everything or speak your mind on it.

Do you mean "Things As They Really Are" or "Things As They Really Are 2.0"?

[halconero]

2 hours ago, JVW said:

Do you mean "Things As They Really Are" or "Things As They Really Are 2.0"?

The first. The second is excellent in its own way, but addresses a different dimension of online activity.

[Stargazer]

On 9/18/2025 at 4:05 PM, halconero said:

I have come to believe that "Things as They Really Are," by Elder Bednar is one of the most consequential talks of this generation. Yes, people still have various motivations for getting angry or getting violent, but these are increasingly mediated through online experiences that facilitate hardened hearts, vicious words, and communities willing to indulge us in our beliefs rather than challenge them.

In regards to my own personal life and interactions with people holding various opinions or beliefs, I've come to appreciate the counsel Marcus Aurelius gave to himself in his journals:

I.e., it's possible to not have an opinion on everything or speak your mind on it.

I wonder if he borrowed that title from Elder Neal Maxwell's book?

[Calm]

21 minutes ago, Stargazer said:

I wonder if he borrowed that title from Elder Neal Maxwell's book?

More likely both from Jacob 4, he cites it after all…though Elder Maxwell might be the reason Elder Bednar focused on that…

Quote

13 Behold, my brethren, he that prophesieth, let him prophesy to the understanding of men; for the Spirit speaketh the truth and lieth not. Wherefore, it speaketh of things as they really are, and of things as they really will be; wherefore, these things are manifested unto us plainly, for the salvation of our souls. But behold, we are not witnesses alone in these things; for God also spake them unto prophets of old.

 

Edited September 20, 2025 by Calm