Pyreaux

I did agree somewhat at first but reading it again, I'm not sure how to hold to saying the system is run on warped venture capitalism and simultaneously not suspect the output of that system is going to be corrupt. I think 50% or even higher could be fraudulent, depending entirely on how you define a "fake" case within the pool of legally meritless and unverified claims, or some explicitly fraudulent claims which regularly reaches staggering majorities. They have built a machine that practically invites a portion of them to get paid. Algorithms map the emotions, specifically, anger and resentment. They see an Ex-LDS subredditer vent over trauma reframed as "abuse". That's about when an algorithm drops a highly targeted, "Have you been harmed by an LDS leader?" When offered money, they think "Well, the leader was a terrible person who ruined my teenage years, so yes, it was abuse, and yes, the Church should pay me for it." An intake form coaches them on how to turn that grudge into a payday. They click the ad, they are funneled through check-boxes. Was the perpetrator a leader? Did it happen on Church property? Did you report it to a leader? If they answer one incorrectly, the automated system rejects them. If they answer with the right combination of words, they put a financial value on the case. It is designed to shape, flatten, and sometimes manufacture a complex personal history into a pre-packaged legal product that fits a lucrative settlement window. Their stories are pre-built. Any liar is absolutely getting paid. The entire mass-tort and private mediation infrastructure is practically built to tolerate a percentage of unverified or embellished claims as a cost of doing business. If a liar has a story that merely hits the exact right legal checkboxes and matches the expected profile of a case, they can easily slide in under the radar. When settlements are finalized, the money is managed by a third-party claims administrator who scores the cases. Say, Tier 1 gets $50k, Tier 2 gets $150k. Often, all that is required to qualify for a lower-tier settlement is a signed affidavit, a verified identity, and a plausible narrative that names a specific church unit or a known leader from that era. With no evidence, because these lower amounts are considered nuisance values, the Church just pays the $40,000 to make it go away. Thus, fraudulent claims are routinely paid out to keep the settlements moving. To say this whole system "says nothing about the victims." That is wishful thinking. In mass torts, a law firm is highly incentivized to keep liars in the pool. The larger the inventory, the more financial leverage the firm has to force the Church into a massive settlement. Mostly my point is to respond to the highly theatrical narrative pushed by ex-LDS activists and media headlines. If this were truly just how all mass torts work, Ex-LDS activists and news outlets certainly do not pitch these events as a normal or routine. Instead, they paint a dark portrait of an explicitly evil church full of degenerate leaders and miserly money counters. These same Ex-LDS platforms function as a marketing arm for the mass-tort firms. Outlets like the Open Stories Foundation do all the pre-discovery heavy lifting and generate social media outrage. When the Church steps in to protect its tithing funds or its right to due process through standard legal maneuvers, they crybully.

Much of the dominating press surrounding the Church often focuses on new filings and settlements, but there have been several "wins" for the Church in the last few months. Insurance Coverage One of the most significant recent financial wins occurred on May 13, 2026, at the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals. The Church had previously lost a lower-court ruling where a judge sided with the insurance companies, ACE Property & Casualty, refusing to cover a $32 million settlement involving Michael Jensen. The lower court had ruled the Church’s failure to prevent abuse constituted "multiple occurrences," exhausting coverage limits. In the recent appellate hearing, judges signaled they were likely to reverse that decision. The 10th Circuit panel suggested that the failure of church officials to stop the abuse should be treated as a single occurrence, which would force insurers to pay out millions that the Church otherwise would have had to cover out of pocket. While a final written opinion typically takes several weeks or months to be released. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints v. ACE Property & Casualty Company et al. (10th Cir. Case No. 25-4122). Courthouse News - Mormon church battles insurers over sex abuse settlement coverage First Amendment and Church Autonomy Defense The Church often joins amicus briefs or uses similar legal strategies to other religious groups to secure broad protections for religious institutions. In cases like Union Gospel Mission v. Brown, the 9th Circuit reinforced the "church autonomy doctrine." While not the defendant, the LDS Church has heavily lobbied for this standard, which recently upheld the right of religious organizations to hire only those who share their "mission" and "values" for non-ministerial roles, like IT or operations. If I recall, there was some uproar about BYU employees. ADF Media - 9th Circuit affirms religious ministries can hire like-minded individuals Donor Privacy April 29, 2026, The Supreme Court ruled in First Choice v. Davenport that religious-affiliated nonprofits cannot be forced to hand over donor lists to state governments. This was a major strategic win for the Church's legal arm, which prioritizes the privacy of its financial supporters and tithe-payers. JD Supra - Unanimous SCOTUS Expands Ability to Challenge Subpoenas Dismissals Statute of Limitations Successes In several states without "look-back" windows, the Church has successfully had older abuse claims dismissed. While California and Oregon are currently seeing a flood of cases due to new laws, the Church has successfully defended against similar suits in states where the statute of limitations has not been reopened, arguing that the claims are "time-barred." Lawsuit Information Center - May 2026 Update Privilege Protections Despite challenges in Arizona and Washington, the Church has successfully maintained its clergy-penitent privilege in several lower-court motions in 2026. This allows bishops to avoid testifying about confessions made during private interviews, a core legal shield for the Church. Arizona Supreme Court - Amicus Filing on Clergy-Penitent Privilege Procedural & Settlement Victories The "Stay" Strategy In several pending 2026 cases, the Church’s legal team has successfully filed for stays, temporary pauses. This is considered a strategic win because it prevents the discovery process, where internal Church documents and disciplinary files would be turned over to plaintiffs, while they negotiate for smaller and confidential settlements. Motley Rice - LDS Sexual Abuse Lawsuit & Helpline Claims Negotiated Reductions In March 2026, the Church successfully negotiated a series of smaller, private settlements in the Midwest that were significantly lower than the record-breaking $2.28 billion verdict from 2023, effectively capping their financial exposure in those regions. Sokolove Law - $2.28 Billion Verdict vs. $1 Million Settlement Some Commentary From an LDS defensive perspective, the surge in lawsuits can be viewed as not just as a search for justice, but as a coordinated attempt to use "lawfare" to harm the Church. There are many ex-LDS activists and specific law firms being motivated by financial gain or ideological hostility rather than specific legal merits. How do I know this? The mass-tort machine is something you can see in real-time through the public marketing and internal strategies of major law firms. These cases are part of what they call "inventories" rather than organic filings. The cases are being filed decades after the fact in states where the law does not even allow it, forcing the Church to spend millions on defense against "time-barred" claims. Some are tragic and legitimate, but many others appear to be part of case inventories gathered by mass-tort firms via aggressive social media advertising. The record-breaking $2.28 billion verdict in 2023 is often cited as an example of jury passion rather than objective law. The Church’s success in reducing these amounts through appeals and mediation is a necessary correction to keep the legal system fair and grounded in evidence rather than emotion. After 30+ years, witnesses are dead, and memories are unreliable. It is morally wrong to force an institution to defend itself against decades-old allegations where "due process" is impossible because the evidence no longer exists. Law firms and "lead generators" use highly sophisticated social media algorithms to find potential claimants. Agencies like the Mass Tort Ad Agency specifically market "LDS MTC Abuse Lawsuit" packages to law firms. In May 2026, data showed these agencies were achieving Cost-Per-Leads (CPL) as low as $18–$35. The term "inventory" is how these firms actually describe their clients in legal filings. These firms don't just blast ads; they use "LDS affinity data" to target people who have "liked" certain Church-related pages, graduated from BYU, or live in high-LDS density areas. At $20 a lead, a firm can spend $20,000 to get 1,000 "leads," then filter those down into a "case inventory" of 100 clients. If they settle those 100 cases for just $50,000 each, the firm takes a 40% cut, turning a $20,000 ad spend into a $2 million profit. Ex-LDS influencers often share "call to action" posts from law firms like Dolman Law Group or Sokolove Law. By sharing their personal "trauma stories," they prime their audience to see themselves as victims in a potential lawsuit. The states that recently opened look-back windows allowing people to sue for abuse that happened decades ago saw an immediate, unnatural spike in filings that coincided perfectly with the social media ad campaigns. In early 2025, over 100 lawsuits were filed in California alone in a single month. It is statistically impossible for 100 unrelated individuals to suddenly decide to sue in the same 30-day window without the coordination of mass-tort advertising. To the Church in many of the cases, a $50,000 settlement is often considered a "nuisance settlement", paid simply to make a case go away because defending it in court would cost more, even if the case is likely fraudulent or lacks evidence. In 2026 began Litigation Funding. Wall Street hedge funds actually invest in these law firms to pay for the social media ads. These investors don't care about the victims, they care about the Return on Investment. This creates a massive incentive for firms to sign up as many people as possible, regardless of the strength of their case, to ensure they can pay back their investors with a bulk settlement. Everyone can know this is happening because you can see the ads, you can read the agencies' own case-acquisition strategies online, and you can track the bulk filing patterns that only occur when a law firm has spent months harvesting leads through social media. Listen to all victims. Believing someone’s pain and validating their experience is a moral act, but a courtroom is a place of evidence. A presumption of guilt against the church, simply because it's wealthy or because it's the Latter-day Saints, is a violation of due process. If we skip the evidence because of an anti-LDS sentiment, we destroy the legal system for everyone.

My point isn't to insist on one specific pattern. The King Follett Sermon makes 'certainty' impossible whether God's "mortality" is mortality as we know it. When the King Follett Discourse supposes Jesus’ mortality mirrored the Father’s mortality in some way, Jesus was God before he obtained any bodily form, a Creator of His world before He walked on it, who had power over life and death and remained sinless. It does not suggest the Father's mortality was a standard human experience. It doesn't smoothly fit the simple "pattern" later thought of "as man is, God once was". Other than saying one day God the Father simply chooses, for reasons, to exist in a physical form, there nothing in particular dictating the Father isn't still a unique, self-existing, innately powered, non-striving, never 'progressing' in the sense from sin to glory, simply transitioning. If the 'cycle' is inconsistent, if some gods are like Jesus and others were like us, then there is no 'pattern' at all, some are apparently exceptions. What's most interesting, if we assume the Father was always God and just took a body like Jesus and glorified it, then the non-LDS charge of "blasphemy" of God being merely a "man" is weakened. He’s just a God with a body, no less Godly than Jesus is now or was.

Normally, a private group can rent a facility like a community center or park pavilion and limit who attends. However, when the facility is a major public utility like a city’s only water park, the lines blur. If a city allows a Christian-only or LDS-only day at a public pool, it faces the same legal hurdle. The government is essentially facilitating segregation by religion on public property. This is why most cities avoid "exclusive" religious rentals and instead opt for "sponsored events" where anyone can buy a ticket, even if the theme is religious. The Free Exercise Clause protects the right of the Muslim group to gather and celebrate. The Establishment Clause prevents the government from appearing to favor or "establish" one religion. By allowing a religious group to take over a public asset and exclude others, the state could be seen as violating this clause. If a city-owned recreation center in Provo held an LDS-only night, it would almost certainly face immediate federal lawsuits from groups like the ACLU or the Freedom From Religion Foundation. The legal standard is content neutrality. The city can't treat a Muslim group differently than it would treat a Catholic group or a secular group. Muslims have my sympathy over the modesty factor. If perhaps this was about the preference for Burka swimwear, modest dress is generally legally protected under the Free Exercise Clause. A group can rent a facility and require a specific dress code (e.g., "modest swimwear only") as long as the requirement doesn't technically exclude people based on their identity or faith. The conflict in Texas arose specifically from it being "Muslims only".

Where are the human skulls Ed Decker promised?

Being like everyone else, being a common origin. By the Father [not] being considered non-divine in His mortality, I mean it is not clear at all whether his mortality was exactly like our current selves. The King Follet Sermon's comparison of the Father's mortality as being "like Jesus'" mortality throws out the idea he was "like us". While Jesus was a mortal, He was not like us, in power and authority, he was still a much greater being. One of several issues with an Infinite Regression. If not everyone has the same exaltation experience, how do we know what this supposed cycle truly looks like?

In LDS thought the view is not necessarily that God being a spirit is "incorrect," but rather that it is an incomplete description. The modern LDS perspective argues that having a body does not prevent God from being described as a spiritual being (like in John 4:24). The classic explanation for the "Great Spirit" is that its borrowed terminology, Alma 18 is interpreted as Ammon using the Lamanites' existing vocabulary to teach them higher concepts. Like what some say Paul might be doing on Mar's Hill declaring the "Unknown God". But my explanation is in Alma 18:32-35, Ammon explains that the Great Spirit created all things. This matches the Book of Ether and modern LDS belief of the Lord God, Jehovah, is Jesus and the Creator of all things under the Father’s direction. In that sense God was at that time indeed a Spirit. In 1830, when the Book of Mormon was published, there are specific moments where the text hints at a plurality or a distinct status for Jesus that aligns more with later LDS theology. 1 Nephi, 3 Nephi, Alma clearly show Jesus as a separate being who is subordinate to the Father. 1 Nephi 1 Lehi sees God sitting on his throne and then sees "One" descend. Here Jesus is clearly distinct from the one on the throne. Then there is Alma describing Jesus as "a" Son of God instead of "the" Son of God (Alma 36:17). Very Daniel-Esque. But Joseph's beliefs were probably more traditional. Even though Joseph saw the personage of the Father, that doesn't mean that he could tell He was embodied or not. In Ether 3, the Brother of Jared sees the Lord and is shocked because his finger appears to be "flesh and blood." He explains he possessed a spirit body. This body has a shape, a form, and limbs, that looks like "flesh". Why not? Whenever God the Father is seen in the Bible, he looks like he has a human body sitting on a throne but that doesn't stop Christians today from thinking He is a Spirit. Joseph did not write the standard First Vision found in the Pearl of Great Price until 1838, it seems after this that something shifted. By 1841 Joseph began teaching the distinctions and bodies of the Godhead more publicly in Nauvoo. In a sermon on January 5, 1841, he taught: "That which is without body, parts, and passions is nothing. There is no other God in heaven but that God who has flesh and bones." By 1843 it was canonized in D&C 130:22. During the Nauvoo period 1844, particularly in the King Follett discourse, it was taught that God the Father didn't always have a body, He had acquired his exalted body, maybe having a mortal probation, but not necessarily a non-divine period. At this time the term God became contextual. Joseph in one context refers to an exalted bodily state as godhood, yet Jesus always had an investiture of godly authority and power throughout known history prior to his exaltation.

The accounts of the Witch of Endor and 'Lazarus and the rich man' portray spirits as beings with appendages complete with sensation, interacting with spirit objects like cloths, and can see the earth, and know what's happening.

Right. They were "no kings" protesting, he's leaning in on it to troll them. A "King" was their portrayal, he is just reacting to it. Like they did "Fat JD", now JD plays into it. Now Fat JD is a Meme Lord. More people know and like Fat JD more than they know and like the real JD.

But if you double the number of temples, even if these new ones will have new classrooms, you still double the human cost of keeping them running and patroned. These still function as temples, just with an extra 5th room, doing ordinances alongside classes, they'll require a constant supply of active workers who are worthy full tithe-payers and can commit 4–6 hours a week, plus patrons. Though I guess, if strategically placed, more temples mean less travel, making it easier to serve.

Independent researchers argue that the official membership count includes many who are no longer active based on census data. Countries like Brazil and Australia, national census data for people who self-identify as "LDS" is often 30% to 60% lower than what the Church reports on its records. Yet, its disputable, there are 10 operating temples and 10 more under construction in Brazil. You cannot sustain 20 temples with only 250,000 people if those people aren't extremely active and committed. Physical buildings are the hard data that proves the census is under-reporting. The continued announcement and construction of temples suggests there is a strong base of full-tithe paying members capable of staffing those buildings. Data from the Spiritual Seismology Survey suggests that the naysayers are misinterpreting the inactive list. The survey found that nearly 40% of LDS members who haven't attended a meeting in over a year still identify as "LDS" when asked by a third party. And many adopt a hybrid faith. They might still pray, believe the Book of Mormon, and keep some version of the Word of Wisdom, but they find the social cost of attending a struggling, under-staffed local branch too high. Concerning the new convert influx problem. In the U.S., you might have one active Melchizedek Priesthood holder for every 3–5 total members on the books. In parts of the Global South, that ratio can balloon to 1 leader for every 50+ members. A Bishop simply does not have the hours in a week to minister to hundreds of new converts. Without that support, the members stop attending, not because they stopped believing in the Book of Mormon, but because they weren't culturally integrated. The number of new wards/branches in Latin America often lags behind the number of baptisms. There thousands are on the books that can become paper. They may go back to Catholicism, but many are also "Believing but Non-Attending" members. Record-breaking Seminary and Institute enrollment and expansion of the missionaries shows the youth are not having as many problems. Seminary and Institute added 200,000 students in just the last two years. Interestingly, about 75,000 of those students are not members of the Church. This suggests that the youth aren't just staying, they actively invite their peers. That enrollment is directly feeding a massive expansion of the missionary force, which has reached 85,000+ full-time missionaries in early 2026.

Well, as long as we don't debate the politics, and just comment on it with little cross talk. I assume he's trolling because protesters say he's a king?

I acknowledge the difference between Latria (the worship owed to God alone) and Dulia (the honor or "veneration" given to created beings) is a bedrock of how Catholics reconcile honoring the Saints or a King without it being guilty of "idolatry." A valid notion in modern Catholicism. However, I am suggesting that the "Royal Cult" proponents like Maragret Barker goes a step farther. Barker focuses heavily on 1 Chronicles 29:20, where the assembly "bowed their heads and worshipped the LORD and the king." Not prostrating to God as an act of worship and prostrating to the king as an act of political respect. But Barker argues that in the original Temple context, it's a conjunction of identity. It is a single act of prostration directed at a single presence, who is both the king and the LORD. The throne wasn't a piece of furniture owned by Solomon; it was a ritual seat that belonged to God. When the King sat there, he was merged into the divine identity. You aren't worshiping the man and the God; you are just worshiping God in the man. In Hebrew, the verb for "worship/prostrate" (shachah) is applied to both subjects simultaneously. Barker argues this is because, the King is the "Anointed One" (Messiah). The king's anointing oil was believed to literally transmit the Spirit of the Lord into the King's body. The King often took a "throne name" that identified him with the Lord. There was no separation during the rituals. On the day of coronation, the King was the Presence of the Lord. To honor the King was to honor the Lord, and to not worship the King was sacrilege against the Lord. If Jesus is a Royal Cultist of this tradition, we see he isn't asking for a lower degree of honor than God. The King was the focal point of worship intended for the Lord, they aren't worshipping Solomon, rather the Lord inside Solomon. I want to point out the reason I still prefer the traditional real Resurrection, I believe though it isn't a completely original idea, it's not 1:1 as there are many features that are very unique in Jesus, rendering Jesus supremely significant. Like the idea of being the last blood sacrifice, opening up the royal priesthood to anyone worthy from a non-Davidic line is a unique change, not a mere Restoration of the old ways of David, but more like "fulfillment". While not every concept is unprecedented, some are. It's not safe to deny a literal death and resurrection, just because the story could be read as a mere royal resurrection drama or liturgy, because it's not all a pure throwback.

The Chatbot is correct, the commonly called "First" Temple is Solomon's Temple, the time of Davidic kings, as opposed to all shrines like Bethel. The Second Temple being Herod. They split these eras up in by their different beliefs. The First Temple era believed in a 3 partitioned heaven like Solomon's Temple had 3 areas, Second Temple Jews from Babylon believed 7 heavens because Harod's Temple had 7 areas.

Thanks Brother Bradley, it's nice to see you around these parts still. I often find myself leaning on your opinions a lot these days. In fact, I was just talking about you today. Talking to the Ward Secretary while waiting for the Bishop "You know Don Bradley?", he's like "Yah!" he was familiar with your work and spiritual journey, and he is a young man (or a youthful 30ish man) and had been inactive for a period. I'm certain he has absorbed a few podcasts with you and so I'm sure you helped him on his way back to activity.

There was a mortal king who died named Melchizedek. Yet he was often viewed by some as not just as a historical king, but as a heavenly being and a resurrected immortal figure. Hebrews 7 describes him as having been "raised up," or rather "resurrected", with "neither beginning of days nor end of life". In a royal cult context, this refers to his enduring office, not the biological man. When a Davidic king was anointed, he became "another" Melchizedek. He stepped out of linear time and into an eternal priesthood. Maybe Jesus successfully ascended into this very specific, pre-existing "immortal" royal office. In many ancient royal cults, the king underwent a symbolic death and rebirth during his coronation or high-holy-day rituals. When Jesus receives the "white and seamless robe," he is being ritually "clothed" in his resurrection body. Hence, in Philip's or Pseudo-Phillip's reckoning, the spiritual "Resurrection" had already happened before he died. If the disciples and Jesus were part of an older mystery tradition or a royal cult, their language was technically accurate within their framework. To the cultist, the ritual is a reality. If the ritual says you are now an immortal god of after the order of Melchizedek, then you are. Even if you died. The Roman Empire could kill the man, but they couldn't kill his status as another Melchizedek. It's a bit distasteful and a far less romantic notion. But it's difficult to parcel out the difference between an ancient king and Jesus. Technically, Jesus wasn't the only would-be incarnation of the Lord. Margaret Barker said Solomon was worshipped as an avatar of the Lord. The First Temple period, the King was the human presence of the Lord. Solomon was anointed and he didn't just represent God; he was "begotten" as the Son of God (Psalm 2:7), when he sat on the "Throne of the Lord" the people were "worshipping the Lord and the King" at the same time because the Lord was embodied inside the man Solomon (1 Chronicles 29:23).

No, the accounts about the weight is rather consistent. Eyewitnesses who claimed to have hefted the plates and who commented on their weight generally provided a consistent weight range. With William estimating them at 60 lbs, Martin Harris suggested 40 to 50 lbs. The account of Joseph, a young male running through the woods about 2-3 miles carrying 40-60 lbs of dead weight is a feat of extreme athleticism, but not physically impossible, and there are other factors that would help, such as if he really thought he was in danger he'd have an adrenaline response. Joseph didn't start running the moment he picked up the plates. He was likely more than halfway home. Lucy Mack Smith describes three distinct attacks. After the first attacker struck him with a gun, Joseph knocked him down and then he "ran at the top of his speed" for about half a mile before a second attack. Following the third attack, the record states that Joseph reached a fence corner within sight of his home and "threw himself down... in order to recover his breath." Moving in half-mile bursts fueled by an adrenaline spike is very plausible. Its supported by the aftermath. When Joseph finally entered the house, he was described as being "altogether speechless from fright and the fatigue." He collapsed from the physical toll. Joseph reportedly dislocated his thumb. He was so focused on the flight response that he didn't even notice the injury until he finally stopped at the fence. Josiah Stowell testified under oath he saw Joseph Smith that night, he had a goldish object when he got home from the woods. By the accounts, he had something with him that day, and they were not light to carry. The story of Katharine as a 14-year-old girl, a 50 lb object covered in cloth on a wooden table creates significant friction. For a young teenager, unbudgeable is a reasonable description for something that weighs as much as a standard bag of concrete when you push it horizontally. This is harder than a vertical lift because you can't easily use your legs or body weight for leverage. When Katharine supposedly hid the plates in her bed, the accounts typically describe her taking them from Joseph and moving them a very short distance. A few feet onto a mattress is a vastly different physical task than sliding them across a table. The plates were clearly heavy enough to be a significant physical burden, difficult for a 14-year-old girl to slide on a table, but light enough that a man in his early 20s can transport them, even run if properly motivated.

Link didn't work for me. I trust you, but by "taught" you mean someone at General Conference thought so and took it upon themselves to broadcast their thoughts, which are generally distinguished from being the unanimous voice of the Twelve. Just as Christians might commonly say the Tigris and the Euphrates rivers are the same rivers in Genesis, but if you've read the book carefully, you know it can't be.

A very astute observation. Many used to assume the Hill Cumorah is in New York, but in reading the scripture it can't be, and now we have a better candidate in Mesoamerica than Heartland. I don't think Sorenson considered places like India or Ethiopia when making his statement.

Mesoamerica theory has more going for it with the temples, writings and iron work that Heartland doesn't have. Sorenson rejects Heartland specifically. I don't think Sorenson considers many other 300-mile possible geographical areas because of the wealth of parallel evidence in Mesoamerica.

Alternatively, people are indeed seeing things, like some people maybe are inducing trances, which I believe happens, whether it's by conventional means like prolonged fasting or using magic mushrooms. Whatever method, I don't dismiss the validity of visions. Belcher account, Joseph reportedly had success. He used a stone to find a cow that had been missing for two days. He allegedly "saw" the cow in the stone and directed the owner to it. I think in this video actually mentions a similar story involving Sally Chase, where a neighbor’s cattle went missing. In that specific account, the cattle were found in the opposite direction of where Sally said they were. Joseph Smith, even in the eyes of Josiah Stowell and the neighbors who kept robbing the Smith house, consistently viewed Joseph as the real deal, that he was actually finding things. It seems like Joseph successfully helped neighbors find stray livestock and lost tools for pennies or a meal.

And the peer-reviewed academics at FAIR are just liars too I suppose? https://www.fairlatterdaysaints.org/answers/Question:_Why_were_"penalties"_removed_from_the_Endowment%3F Their contributors are often professional historians, archivists, and scholars who have direct access to the Official Church Archives, the 1877 Master Script when Brigham Young first had the temple ceremony written down and subsequent official revisions in 1927 and 1990 to confirm exactly when words changed. The Church did take them seriously, as covenants, not death threats. When you take a wedding vow "until death do us part" doesn't mean your spouse is then authorized to kill you if you leave them. That's stupid. I'm not saying the Church told people to not take them seriously. A personal pledge is not the same as agreeing to a literal execution. The fact that there are zero executions in 180 years in fact IS the Church's 'statement' that the vow had no teeth. History proves those words were removed decades before Romney was born. If you can't distinguish between the versions, you aren't doing the research, you're just repeating what a blog told you. Holland corrected the reporter’s wording because the reporter was wrong. Accuracy isn't a lie. Romney never said 'slit my throat.' (Fact) Holland admitted members used to say that but not Romney. There are no physical penalties and never have been (Facts) No one has ever been executed by the Church for telling secrets. (Fact)

CFR? You mean prove a negative? Here, in the 180+ year history of the Church, there isn't a single documented case of the Church executing someone for breaking a temple oath. That is my proof. If I'm wrong, wouldn't there be a paper trail from law enforcement? Instead, we find the exact opposite. Ex-members leaving, speaking out, and even publishing the rituals without any physical retaliation from the institution. Still alive. That is proof. Elder Holland can absolutely say "That's not true" when asked if Romney swore to have his throats slit, because he didn't say those words. To describe his life vow as a real threat is a distortion of the truth. You want me to find a very specific, unlikely-to-exist document with a transcript to validate the reality of a historical change that is already fairly well-documented, though unofficially? The penalties were neither "fake" or "real" in a legal sense, it's a ritual, a well-established ancient ritual, which is super awesome, by the way. As the Reddit comment noted, everyone involved including Holland knew exactly what Sweeney was asking. He was asking if Romney had ever stood in a room and promised to slit his throat as a penalty for revealing secrets. He did not say that, nor is that a real penalty anyone suffered. If I'm lying, CFR. You are just trying to shut down the conversation.

Millennium I think. There could be preparatory work now and a full-scale operation during the Millennium. The "sealing" of these servants as mentioned in Revelation 7 is generally viewed by scholars as a protective and ordaining act that happens before the greatest destructions of the last days. I'm 120% with Joseph Smith's interpretation, the "seal in their foreheads" is most definitely the High Priest’s diadem or the High Priest's anointing with the sign of the name. The 144,000 are indeed priests. Whether they are all currently on earth now or yet to be called or if many are serving from the other side of the veil and will return, I don't know.

Well, cross my heart and hope to die, there never was a real penalty. You are aware this wasn't a friendly chat, it was a confrontational interview described as an ambush. In that high-pressure environment, if someone asks you, "Do you have a policy of execution?", you get to say "No" and you are telling the truth. The "penalties" never existed in any legal or physical reality or time. If you really care about leading people to believe something that is not true, then you should care more about what Mormon Stories is getting sued for.