Pyreaux

It is a thread woven through several LDS scriptures and the teachings of modern prophets who define the difference between being a physical descendant and a spiritual heir of any given Patriarch. LDS commentary on these verses emphasizes that being a "child of Noah" or "Abraham" by birth is insufficient; the "fulfillment" occurs only when the remnant is "called" (as in Moses 7:51) and responds. Joseph Smith taught that the "Holy Ghost" has a physical effect on those who are not of the literal seed of Abraham. He taught that when a person from a "Gentile" (non-covenant) lineage receives the gospel, the Holy Ghost literally "purges out the old blood" and grafts them into the covenant line (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 149–150). Doctrine and Covenants 84 describe transmutation from biological to covenant seed upon receiving the priesthood. "For whoso is faithful unto the obtaining these two priesthoods of which I have spoken, and the magnifying their calling, are sanctified by the Spirit unto the renewing of their bodies. They become the sons of Moses and of Aaron and the seed of Abraham, and the church and kingdom, and the elect of God." (D&C 84:33–34) This reinforces the idea that "Noah’s Seed" isn't just about a family tree; it’s about recovering the line of Priesthood authority. Latter-day Saint theology leans heavily on Romans 9. "For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children... That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed." (Romans 9:6–8) When you read Moses 7:60, where the Lord says He will "fulfil the oath... concerning the children of Noah," He is doing so via The Law of Adoption. Verse 1 "children of men" is biological, ideally the Covenant seed as the target of Enoch's missionary "call." Verse 26 "children of men" are biological, fallen as those who "hate their own blood" and face the flood. Verse 33 "children of men" are biological, fallen being identified as those without affection for God. Verse 37 "children of men" are biological, fallen as those whose "doings" cause the heavens to weep. Verse 45 "my children" is biological, all of Earth's inhabitants causing her pain through wickedness. Verse 51 "children of Noah" are the Covenant seed, those whom the Lord will "call" out of the nations. Verse 60 "children of Noah" are Covenant seed, the group for whom the Second Coming fulfills an oath.

According to hearsay of someone claiming to have reached out to her family, her siblings, like in many of these stories, want to believe "something" probably happened to her, but unfortunately the reality is now buried under a layer of things that don't seem possible to separate now. She has siblings who have memories at the time but don't remember seeing her pregnant. They also say she's a diagnosed Paranoid Schizophrenic, but that doesn't mean nothing happened. Ah, the Algorithm clickbaited me, it's a good video but the title made me think MJ's son was dead of something... He's fine. https://www.msn.com/en-us/video/peopleandplaces/the-tragedy-of-michael-jackson-s-son-prince-is-so-sad/vi-AA1NFlqm

I can't find anything about the ex-boyfriend Caleb Hayden Fosnaugh being a member himself. He may not be, maybe his connection to her is through the Uniting for Ukraine program, which requires a private sponsor in the U.S. to sign a form (I-134A) promising financial support. Many single female refugees find sponsors through online matching groups or social media. This creates a dangerous power dynamic. If Fosnaugh or his family served as her initial point of contact or sponsor when she first arrived in the U.S. perhaps in Ohio before she moved to North Carolina, it would explain how a native-born American from Ohio met a woman from Ukraine. It is also possible Kateryna initially lived in Ohio when she arrived in 2022, met Fosnaugh there, and later moved to North Carolina to seek a fresh start. "Ex-boyfriend" suggests a relationship of some duration. Kateryna Tovmash was a relatively recent convert after her arrival in the United States. Kateryna grew up Seventh-day Adventist (family history suggests this), and the ward members in North Carolina have described her as a "shining example of a new convert." The photo of her at the Raleigh North Carolina Temple was taken in the last year or so. In the Church, a person typically waits at least one year after baptism before they can receive temple ordinances. This timeline fits with a conversion that took place shortly after her 2022 arrival. Domestic violence experts have warned that predators sometimes use platforms to find vulnerable women who lack a local support system or legal status. He may have viewed himself as her "rescuer," which often turns into obsessive or controlling behavior when the woman tries to gain independence (like moving to away or joining a new church). If she moved to North Carolina to distance herself from an obsessive relationship in Ohio, North Carolina should have provided the safety she needed. Making this Valentine's Day murder even more chilling.

Yes, Kateryna Tovmash was a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. An active member of the Holly Springs Ward of North Carolina. In the photo she is standing in front of the Raleigh North Carolina Temple. Second Ukrainian Refugee Kateryna Tovmash Murdered in NC Ukrainian refugee, 21, and military boyfriend shot dead by ex-lover Her brother, Mykhailo Tovmash, set up a GoFundMe to cover funeral costs and support their younger siblings who were present in the home during the attack. Caleb Hayden Fosnaugh of Ohio allegedly drove 7 hours to North Carolina, broke into the home, and killed Katya and Matthew Wade, an active-duty U.S. Army soldier. Fosnaugh was apprehended in Ohio on February 14th after a multi-state manhunt. He faces two counts of first-degree murder. This is the second high-profile killing of a Ukrainian refugee in North Carolina in six months leading to significant political and social debate in the state regarding the safety of refugees. Members of the Holly Springs Ward have spoken to local media (like WRAL and ABC11), describing her as a "shining light" in their congregation. They noted that she sought refuge in the United States not just from the war in Ukraine, but also to build a better life within her faith community. Kateryna arrived in North Carolina in 2022 under the "Uniting for Ukraine" program. Local church members were instrumental in helping her settle, find work, and navigate the transition to life in the U.S. Her death has hit the local ward particularly hard, as many members were involved in supporting her through her transition and her efforts to maintain a safe home for her son.

You see the last phone call Michael Jackson made? It was to his manager. Sounds like he feared a non-government "They" were going to silenced him.

It’s ironic that in your quest to decry prejudice, you’ve reduced a human being with decades of service to nothing more than a demographic. Isn't that the definition of the sort of bias you claim to have grown out of? If the Church called an African Apostle tomorrow, would you actually sustain him? Or would you just move the goalpost? If so, then your concern about representation isn't about the people of Africa, it's just a weapon to use against a leadership you've already reject. Pointless.

It’s easy to throw stones at the speed of change but look at the trajectory. Its more diverse than ever before. You seem to be arguing that a successful professional career is a disqualification for apostleship. As a complainer, if he were not, you’d likely complain they lacked the competence to run a global organization. Your issue isn't with the resume, but apparently with the fact that the calling happened at all. You keep using 'orthodoxy' as a dirty word. Since when is it prejudiced or extreme for a religious university to expect its faculty to be aligned with its sponsoring religion? You’re framing a basic institutional standard as a 'loyalty oath' to make it sound more sinister. Every organization, secular or religious, seeks leaders who are aligned with their core mission. Of course it looks 'corporate' to you, you’ve already discarded the possibility that God is involved. You'll always start with the premise that any choice the Church makes is inherently uninspired. It renders your opinions compromised by a circular logic trap.

Ah, so your Exit strategy is to frame my defense of the Church as an attack on abuse victims so you can exit the dialogue on your high horse? No, it's a Straw Man Fallacy that I think no one deserves compensation. The Church actually provides more help to victims through its Counseling Assistance Program than many other institutions, often paying for years of therapy regardless of legal "technicalities." Protecting the Church's legal integrity is what ensures those funds remain available for actual victims. You claim you never demanded the Church waive its defenses, but your entire argument contradicts this. You called the Help Line protocols "dishonest", a "shell game", "Stone Age" or "amateurish," you are clearly demanding that the organization stop using it. You can't have it both ways, you can't attack the legal shield while claiming you aren't asking the Church to drop it.

Yet by demanding the Church waive its defenses, that is exactly what would happen. Every dollar paid out to a claim based on a "flawed memory" (like the Oyler case potentially would have been) is a dollar taken away from members. Anyone wise realize that there are people who would dismantle the Church for profit if they could only find a crack in its legal armor. Your "Christlike" argument relied on your subjective human judgment that Church should waive its "technicalities" whenever a victim is "deserving", according to you. An institution cannot function on your subjective feelings. Who decides who is "deserving" in ex-mormondum? The loudest? The person with the saddest story? The Church following universal legal principles like attorney-client privilege and reporting laws is the only way to be fair and consistent to everyone, rather than playing favorites based on public pressure. In the Beau Oyler case, the sort of "justice" you wanted was based on a false premise. The Church used the system to correct the record, the Church wasn't being "un-Christlike"; it was being truthful. By standing up for the documented truth, the Church actually serves the cause of justice better than those who would blindly support any accusation.

Your "technicality" in the legal system is also called Due Process. Following the law, including laws regarding privilege, is a form of integrity. It ensures that the Church isn't acting as a vigilante organization, but as a law-abiding entity. Funny how critics who invoke "Christlike" behavior define it as radical, transparent advocacy for the individual victim at any cost. Never at the "Christlike" mandate from a broader, more complex perspective that considers the protection of the many, the sanctity of the law, and the actual results. As seen in the Beau Oyler case, your so-called "justice" is often sought by people whose memories or motives are flawed. If the Church didn't have its sophisticated record-keeping, it would be defenseless against every false or exaggerated claim. The church has a duty to protect the pockets of tithe payers from predatory or misinformed lawsuits, that in of itself is a "Christlike" act of stewardship. Allowing the Church to be looted because it was too naive to keep professional records would be stupid. But we're smart, and the system actually results in more reporting in many cases. By having a Help Line staffed by professionals, the Church ensures that a local Bishop doesn't make a legal mistake that actually lets a criminal go free. The Help Line's purpose is to ensure that the reporting is done correctly, legally, and in a way that will stand up in court. This is arguably more "Christlike" than a disorganized system that might botch a criminal investigation. Compassion without order is chaos. Sorry the Church refuses to be bullied by critics into abandoning the very protections that allow it to function as a global refuge for millions.

You think Rytting is lying because he called these "Help Line notes" when he knows they are actually "KM Legal Records?" In reality, I'd say Rytting is using that terminology as a way to keep the conversation in "church-speak" (which to a bishop's end there is no distinction) rather than "lawyer-speak" (there clearly is a distinction) which, as you note, provides a convenient "out." You find the lack of a manual "dishonest." From a legal perspective, no manual = no standard to be sued against. Having no written policy and relying on professional judgment alone, the Church makes it much harder for a plaintiff's attorney to prove the Church broke its own rules. I guess we actually agree on the mechanics. Records exist at the law firm, but not at the Family Services office. The disagreement is it's actually a complex system, and Rytting is just used a catch-all term for the records that survive.

The disagreement isn't really about the definition of a log, it’s about whether any "record" exists at all and who is being truthful about it. The answer is in determining how many sources of data comes out of a single Help Line call. This is how both Rytting and Van Komen can be telling the truth. The "Call Notes" (Clinical/Social Work) are the handwritten or typed notes a social worker takes to understand the situation. Van Komen said these are destroyed daily. The "Work Product" (Legal) are the notes the attorney takes. Under U.S. law, Attorney Work Product is a specific category of record created in anticipation of litigation. These are not destroyed daily; they are the "records" Rytting likely refers to. The "Privilege Log" as you noted, is just Metadata that says, "On Oct 12, Bishop X called Lawyer Y." It doesn't contain the conversation, but it proves the conversation happened. Your argument that if one says records exist and the other says they don't, someone is lying. But in a legal setting, they are often speaking about different buckets. Your point is that if the Church calls the 1-800 number a "Help Line," then anything kept from that call is a "Help Line record", Rytting is "lying" by using a broad term for a specific legal file. He is not. Obviously, the Church keeps records locked tight under attorney-client privilege. In the Oyler case, the Church voluntarily waived that privilege to defend itself. Rytting and Van Komen are applying a Litigation standard of honesty (being technically accurate within your specific department's silo). Family Services (the Help Line office) doesn't keep records. Kirton McConkie (the Law Firm) does. We didn't lie.

There is a distinct difference between lying and how a witness is instructed to speak in a deposition. To say "I don't know" if they aren't 100% certain of a specific fact, isn't seen as lying in the law, it's actually avoiding lying and perjury by not guessing or speaking for a department (like Legal) that they don't actually manage.

I read the snippet you've shared. It looks like a textbook example of a legal discovery battle. In the legal world, this is often a strategy called "I don't know" testimony. If a witness can be accused of a lie, a witness says "I don't know what you mean by 'qualified'" they provide a smaller target for the opposing lawyer. You are assuming the witness’s apparent lack of specific, written knowledge is proof the Church is disorganized or deceptive. It's possible there may not be a manual, but unwritten protocols. The policy could actually be very simple and has remained the same for 30 years.

Van Komen's testimony is actually very precise. In a legal deposition, you only answer for your own department. Van Komen isn't lying, and Rytting isn't either. They are simply on two different ends of the phone line. The deposition shows, from a legal defense perspective, it is highly organized. A Bishop calls the number. A social worker gives clinical advice. The notes are destroyed daily, so, there is nothing to subpoena. Then a lawyer gives legal advice. Those records are kept under Attorney-Client Privilege. If the Church is sued or accused of lying later, they unlock those privileged records to defend themselves. That is not a mess, it's a very sophisticated system. The Church is a brilliant multi-billion dollar global entity. We have proof they don't lose records, they just stored them in the legal department.

It seems like you're playing a very specific game of "gotcha" with the semantics. In the legal world, destroying informal notes while keeping a formal summary is high-level risk management, not incompetence. Your portrayal of the Church as disorganized to make Rytting look like a liar is completely deflated by the Beau Oyler case. If the Church was really keeping no records, they wouldn't have been able to produce a detailed timeline of calls from 2013 to publicly correct a former bishop. The records of the "Help Line" calls exist. The Church has clearly demonstrated they have a centralized way to retrieve the history of these calls when they need to defend themselves.

Do they delete everything? No. If they did, they would not have been able to refute Beau Oyler's claims with 11-year-old data. Rytting’s statement might actually be accurate. The Church’s recent actions (like the Beau Oyler rebuttal) prove that records do exist. How could Van Komen have meant they don't keep any records, while the Church Newsroom publishes details from a call 11 years ago? Van Komen was a director at Family Services (Clinical Records). He likely meant that the social workers do not keep a permanent clinical file on the caller. The calls are routed through Kirton McConkie (Legal Records). Lawyers almost always keep a log of calls and the advice given to maintain their own liability records and conflict of interest checks. Rytting works for Risk Management. Risk Management keeps its own files on potential or ongoing lawsuits. If a call to the help line results in a legal file being opened, that file exists independently of the "help line notes." The "raw notes", the scratchpad paper used during the call, might be destroyed daily to protect privacy, but an administrative summary is often entered into a database. This summary isn't a transcript, but it would include the date, the caller’s name, and the general outcome. Whatever way, Rytting must be right, and Notatbm must be wrong. If Rytting were truly blowing smoke and no records exist at all, the Church would have had no way to rebut Beau Oyler with specific dates and the names of the people he talked to. The Church clearly has a database or a log system, a legal or risk management log, just not the social worker's notepad.

Satanic ritual abuse and murder claims are being pushed by groups like "We Are The People Utah" generally allege that high-level members of the LDS Church are involved in a "Deep Church" or "Secret Combination" that facilitates human trafficking or ritualistic abuse. Despite high-profile claims, there has been no credible, admissible evidence presented in court or by law enforcement that supports the existence of an organized SRA ring within the LDS Church, let alone the hierarchy. Recap of Tim Ballard Tim Ballard coined the term "Deep Church" to describe a supposed shadow network within the LDS Church that is working to destroy him. This mirrors many such people that often use conspiracy rhetoric to deflect from their personal legal troubles by framing themselves as a martyr targeted by a corrupt establishment. Why Tim Ballard was actually excommunicated and sued has nothing to do with his SRA conspiracies and everything to do with personal conduct. The primary lawsuits against Ballard involve several women who allege he used a "couples ruse" (pretending to be married while undercover) to groom and sexually assault them. Plaintiffs allege Tim Ballard used LDS scripture and claims of being sanctioned by priesthood authority to coerce them into sexual acts, telling them it was necessary for their mission to save children. We Are The People Utah and Tim Ballard "We Are The People Utah" often provides a platform for guests who claim that the Church's opposition to Ballard is proof of a cover-up. For years, Ballard touted his close ties to the Church to build his brand as a fighter against evil forces. When the Church finally scrutinized his methods and distanced itself, supporters pivoted to claiming the Church was "captured" by those evil forces. This is a classic circular logic used in conspiracy theories: if the Church supports him, it must be a good institute; when it opposed him, it must be in on it. When in late 2025, the Salt Lake County District Attorney declined to file criminal charges, citing "insufficient admissible evidence", Tim Ballard used this as "proof" of innocence and a conspiracy against him. In reality, the DA explicitly stated that declining to charge "does not mean that we disbelieve or diminish a survivor's account." It simply means the "beyond a reasonable doubt" standard is incredibly high for events that occurred in foreign jurisdictions or private settings. The civil lawsuits, where the standard is the "preponderance of evidence", continues to move forward. We Are The People Utah and SRA The platform often ignores the specific, detailed testimony of women (many of them active LDS members) who have filed lawsuits against Tim Ballard. But frequently feature women who share "survivor" stories that center on Satanic ritual abuse, murder and repressed memories. These testimonies are gathered to be collectively used by the show to suggest a broader conspiracy involving religious and political leaders in Utah. Multiple episodes feature guests identified as "River," "Jessica," and "Jill" who claim to have survived generational ritual abuse. These guests often describe "confronting repressed memories" of childhood trauma and ritualistic violence involving politicians and religious figures. Some guests are affiliated with other platforms like the Deconstructing Darkness podcast, which focuses specifically on ritual trauma and the "healing" of repressed memories. Very similar to the women suing Ballard, these guests often speak about "spiritual manipulation" and "grooming". The women suing Tim Ballard, such as Celeste Borys and Amy Davis, allege recent, tangible incidents of sexual assault and harassment during "undercover" missions. Their claims are based on documented interactions, text messages, and employment history. However, the SRA testimonies featured often rely on recalled memories of events from decades ago. Satanic Panic and Alien Abductions Like the "Satanic Panic" of the 1980s, there is a lack of physical evidence or law enforcement corroboration for organized ritual sacrifice in Utah. The "Universal Witness" argument is found in the psychological phenomenon of Sociocultural Priming and the malleability of human memory. When people argue that "everyone is reporting gray bug-eyed aliens, gray bug-eyed aliens must be real," they are often overlooking how the media and hypnotic "recovery" sessions is what actually creates that consistency after the fact. The "Grey Alien" (small, grey, large black eyes) was not a universal report until it was popularized by the media. People aren't reporting the same thing because they saw it; they are reporting the same thing because pop culture gave them the visual vocabulary to describe their unknown experience (for something like sleep paralysis). The use of hypnosis or "memory regression" is a major red flag. The brain is a meaning-making machine. When a therapist asks, "What do you see?" the brain will often fill in the blanks with culturally available imagery to satisfy the question. Leading questions like, "Was the light bright?" or "Did the figures have large eyes?", the witness incorporates those details into their "memory." Once the memory is "recovered," the person experiences it as a 100% real event. During sleep paralysis, the body is paralyzed but the brain is awake. This often triggers a threat-detection response in the amygdala, leading to hallucinations of a presence in the room. Jill Butt Jill before she was 19, she was pregnant for 5 and a half years, had 7 children, and they were all sacrificed in front of her. She says the conspiracy went "all the way up to the 15", Apostles. She has what she calls "body memories", she doesn't actually have childhood memories. She has bodily episodes where she, convulses and felt like she gave birth 7 times. Which is evidence to her that she had given birth 7 times. Being pregnant for 5.5 years and having 7 children by age 19 is physiologically impossible under normal human biology. To have 7 children in 5.5 years would require a near-constant state of pregnancy and birth with no recovery time. No record of medical visits or physical evidence of these pregnancies. The "explanation" is usually that they were "covered up" by the cult, but this doesn't account for the physical toll on a teenager's body that would be visible to everyone. Jill describes Somatic Flashbacks, physical sensations like the feeling of giving birth and interprets them as "proof" that the event happened. Psychology recognizes that trauma survivors can experience "body memories" where the body reacts to stress or triggers with physical pain. However, the body cannot store factual data. If a person is told by a therapist or a "survivor" community that their unexplained abdominal pain is "actually" a memory of a hidden birth, the brain begins to interpret that pain through that lens. Over time, the person becomes convinced the event happened because the feeling is real, even if the event never occurred. Claiming the conspiracy goes "all the way to the 15", for decades, the LDS Apostles have lived highly public lives with security, constant schedules, and public appearances. The logistics of them participating in secret ritual sacrifices of seven children from one individual without a single shred of forensic evidence (dna, locations, disposal of remains) makes the claim statistically and practically impossible.

If everyone is naturally a descendant of Noah, how is a remnant of his seed being found among all nations a specific sign or a task for the Lord to fulfill in the last days? The typical understanding is There is a distinction between a mere biological seed and the covenant seed. The "call" of Verse 51 says the Lord would "call upon the children of Noah." This implies a spiritual gathering. In the last days, Noah’s descendants are identified and reclaimed through the Gospel. In scriptural terms, a "remnant" often refers to a faithful group preserved for a specific purpose. The fulfillment in the last days involves finding those who are willing to keep the same oaths Enoch and Noah kept. The Two Covenants include the Everlasting Covenant of Peace that the earth won't be flooded again and Noah’s seed will remain. Then the promise that the Lord will return to "fulfill the oath". In Verse 60, He is coming back because the Seed of Noah and the City of Enoch (Zion) are meant to meet. The "how" is essentially the Gathering of Israel from every nation. Missionaries are "calling" upon the children of Noah in every nation. Offering the same "Only Begotten" (verse 50) framework to those descendants. It is a legal guarantee, an "unalterable decree," the Lord ensured that no matter how wicked the world became in the last days, not to wipe them out and start over, Noah's human race and specifically the line of the priesthood, would never be completely wiped out. But there are some speculative theories In the "Local Flood" Theory, it is suggested the Flood might have been a localized but catastrophic event. If the Flood was local, it follows that other groups of people, not present in Noah's immediate region, would have survived. Under this view, the "unalterable decree" that Noah’s seed would be found among all nations (Moses 7:52) is fulfilled as Noah’s descendants eventually migrated and intermarried with these other surviving populations. The Bible mentions groups like the Rephaim, Anakim and other "giants" appearing after the Flood. Or how one of the wives of Noah’s sons, traditionally Ham’s wife, Egyptus, is often the subject speculation regarding multiple lineages. Or that the term "Rephaim" refers to a spiritual or political class rather than a biological race. A class of "mighty men" (Hebrew: gibborim) who were aristocratic, violent, and highly influential. These groups represent a "counter-Zion", a civilization that stood in direct opposition to Enoch’s.

On January 16, news broke that the Church (via, Property Reserve Inc.) purchased 2,898 acres in the Texas Hill Country (Kyle, Texas). Local environmentalists and residents have protested the sale, fearing "unmanaged sprawl" and potential development into a high-density "Mormon hub" in a sensitive rural area. The historic Nance Ranch along the Blanco River is roughly four miles west of downtown Kyle. The purchase inherited a pre-existing agreement that could allow for up to 9,000 "living unit equivalents", essentially paving the way for a massive residential and commercial master-planned community. Kyle’s water master plan already includes a $37.6 million water line (tentatively set for 2030) specifically designed to serve this acreage. Here is why the current "Mormon Hub" narrative is mix of legitimate environmental concern and illogical alarmism. The "Mormon Hub" Fear Critics fear (or just propagandizing) the area will become a high-density, faith-centric enclave. This is ignoring the Church’s investment history. Property Reserve Inc. typically acts as a "buy and hold" investor. Historically, these investments are about financial diversification, not creating "Zion" in the suburbs, building 9,000 houses and waiting for only members to move in, a membership not already there. The Environmental Concern Makes Sense The protest from the Save Our Springs Alliance is grounded in actual infrastructure math. The land sits on a sensitive aquifer recharge zone. High-density "sprawl" here could jeopardize the regional water supply. Protesters argue the city bypassed public review (a 2020 lawsuit is still making its way through courts). I guess, they want to stop the precedent where the city and a massive institutional buyer can lock in development for 45 years without voter input. The irony of the situation is that many residents are protesting a religious organization for doing exactly what private equity firms have been doing in Texas for years. So, I think by framing it as a "Mormon Hub," critics can gain more media traction, but the real threat isn't us, it’s the pre-approved density that was legal long before the Church even wrote the check. Links Hoodline: Mormon Church Shakes Up 2,900 Acres Near Kyle’s Blanco River About the protest - Chron.com: LDS Church buys 3,000 acres in Texas Hill Country, drawing protests The legal fight - Save Our Springs Alliance: Knight v. City of Kyle (Recharge Zone Protection)

Improbable. They'd have go back separate meetings, but good luck getting the same attendance.

If you were a robot, are you so certain you would know it?

But, if you were a robot, would you honestly tell us?

Well, some of the 4 are juveniles. We'll see.

Come now, don't continue your heated political conversation here, or you'll get it locked too.