Kenngo1969

At least one thing becomes clearer to me as I continue to ponder the subject(s) of this thread: There's more good even in many of the so-called "worst" of us and more bad even in many of the so-called "best" of us than any of the rest of us might suspect. [1] _____________________ END NOTE Thats just a general, slightly tongue-in-cheek, off-the-cuff observation that may or may not hold up well when considered vis-a-vis specific cases. I'm neither prepared nor inclined to defend it when considering specific cases. Was Hitler "good" or "bad"? I don't think any reasonable debate could be had that he wasn't, thoroughly, the latter. Was Edison "good" or "bad"? Well, whatever his flaws, he gave us the lightbulb. Was Carnegie "good" or "bad"? Well, whatever his flaws, he gave us the library system as we know it today. And so on.

I posted the below in response to another thread, but I can't resist posting it again here. I love it: Jeffrey R. Holland (November 2007) "The Tongue of Angels," Ensign, accessed on line at the following address on November 28, 2025: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2007/04/the-tongue-of-angels?lang=eng

P.S.: Seriously, though: One good shiver ... P.P.S.: "On the next episode of Engineering Disasters ..."

Yep. The real blessings that come from obedience are transformational, not just transactional. God isn't Santa Claus, so whatever God wants to give us, by orders of magnitude more, He wants us to become something.

Come to think of it, I'm hoping this wasn't Shipps' book, but Smoot's. I guess we'll find out. It doesn't hurt to have more than one Pearl of Great Price resource.

I'm sure the delay was unavoidable. (I told her she needs an assistant, and that, yes, she's that important! )

Just got word. Thanks!

I had a choice between ordering Ellis Shipp's Pearl of Great Price Commentary from the FAIR Bookstore or from Amazon. I placed my order for 2 copies on or about November 14. [Obviously, I should have gone with Amazon. At least, in that event, if my order had been terminally delayed, I would know that.] Two or three days ago, I sent an email including my order number and inquiring about its status. Nada! Crickets! Should I just kiss that fifty bucks goodbye? (Lesson learned!) Should I send smoke signals or a homing pigeon? Which direction? Any ideas?

For what it's worth, here's what I asked our friend Google Gemini [font of all knowledge], and how Gemini responded (bold/emphasis Gemini's): From a Latter-day Saint perspective, what are Satan's counterfeits to the many virtues listed in the scriptures? Can you give me a side-by-side list of Christ's virtues (or the virtues He asks us [or commands us] to cultivate) and Satan's counterfeits? Based on a Latter-day Saint perspective, Satan is a master counterfeiter who seeks to replace the genuine virtues of the gospel of Jesus Christ with subtle, twisted imitations or outright opposites. His goal is to deceive and lead people away from the light of truth and the path to happiness. The best defense against these counterfeits is to be deeply familiar with the true principles of the gospel, as President Joseph F. Smith taught: "The more deeply we know the truth, the easier it will be to spot the differences when Satan presents us with his counterfeits." ⚔️ Christ's Virtues and Satan's Counterfeits Satan's counterfeits often appeal to the "natural man," feeding vanity, pride, and carnal desires, and they frequently involve the destruction of agency or the false promise of salvation without the need for repentance and obedience. Here is a side-by-side list comparing some Christ-centered virtues with their common Satanic counterfeits discussed in Latter-day Saint teachings and scriptures: Christ's Virtue (Truth) Satan's Counterfeit (Lie or Distortion) Key Concepts Humility (Mosiah 4:11) Pride (Alma 30:53-54; D&C 121:37) Pride is enmity toward God and fellow men; seeking personal honor above all others. Humility recognizes reliance on God. Love/Charity (Moroni 7:47) Lust (Alma 39:9); Selfishness (2 Tim. 3:2) Lust is a selfish, sensual desire often falsely labeled as love. Charity is the pure love of Christ, seeking others' welfare. Repentance/ Godly Sorrow (Alma 42:29) Perfectionism (False Gospel); Guilt/ Shame (Anti-Christ) Perfectionism demands an impossible, immediate sinlessness. True repentance is a joyful process of turning to Christ for help. Spiritual Gifts/True Revelation (D&C 46:16) False "Spirituality"/ Counterfeit Signs (JS—M 1:22; D&C 46:7) False signs often appeal to the sensational or mystical, lack edification, or come through unauthorized channels. Sincere Worship/ True Godliness (D&C 121:45) Priestcraft (Alma 1:12); Flattery (2 Nephi 28:22) Priestcraft is preaching or performing ordinances for money, power, or praise of men, rather than for the welfare of souls. Obedience/ Covenants (D&C 130:20-21) A "Free Pass" to Sin (2 Nephi 28:8) Satan teaches "Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die," convincing people God will justify a "little sin." Agency/Accountability (2 Nephi 2:27) Coercion/No-Risk Salvation (Moses 4:1-4) Satan's plan sought to destroy the agency of man by forcing righteousness, thus removing accountability and the opportunity for growth. Divine Truth/Scripture (D&C 93:24) Lies/Worldly Philosophy (Moses 4:4; 2 Nephi 28:20) Satan is the father of all lies and twists God's word, or introduces "precepts of men mingled with scripture." Confidence in Christ (Hebrews 10:35) Self-Esteem /Confidence in the "Arm of Flesh" (Jer. 17:5; 2 Nephi 4:34) Relying solely on your own inherent worth or ability (self-esteem) without relying on Christ's grace is a counterfeit for true confidence through humility and discipleship. These counterfeits are often described in the scriptures as "flattering words" that lead people away "carefully down to hell," making the path of destruction seem safe and appealing (2 Nephi 28:21-22). "But, how is any of this related to the topic, Ken?" Touché! The more we rely on our own strength, wisdom, capacity, resources, and so on, the less prone we are to acknowledge God's hand in our lives and to be thankful for that with which He blesses us. Consider King Benjamin's sermon in Mosiah 2: He continues in vss. 20-25, and Chapter 2 ends at v. 41: And continuing in Chapter 4: Just "food" for thought. Happy Thanksgiving, everyone.

I thought of a couple of [perhaps, hopefully] related addresses when reading the other contributions to this thread: President Ezra Taft Benson (May 1989) "Beware of Pride," Ensign: Beware of Pride Elder Dallin H. Oaks (June 7, 1992) "Our Strengths Can Become Our Downfall," BYU Speeches: Humility: Our Strengths Can Become Our Downfall - BYU Speeches BYU Speeches If they're not related, or if this is too much of a tangent, feel free to ignore.

I don't know, but, for one thing, it made for loooooong Saturdays every six months. As much as a big part of me will miss the evening session, and as much as some might think, "Oh, come on, Ken! Ya wuss! There isn't that much difference between four hours of meetings and six!", for those in areas of the world (and even in most of the United States) where they don't have the luxury of watching sessions at home in their slippers and jammies over network television, it might well be a welcome change.

I don't think it was then-Elder-now-President Holland's intent to discount anything Nephi went through, and, certainly, it isn't mine. Although perhaps the common thought in the Church of Jesus Christ is that Nephi was entirely too hard on himself when, in the "Psalm of Nephi" chapter of Second Nephi Chapter 4, he chides himself for the temptations he experienced because of what his older brothers did to him, if what you say is anything approaching the truth, actually, perhaps he was too easy on them. (The only way we'll ever know for sure is if we're ever able to ask Nephi: Maybe we'll get that chance, and maybe we won't. We'll simply have to wait and see.) One of the fascinating aspects of the judgment, to me, is how, in a way I do not now (and perhaps cannot possibly) understand, the Lord will [I believe ... OMMV] judge our mortal lives against the standards of our respective times rather than against some arbitrary standard it would be impossible for [m]any of us to meet. In any event, for whatever this is worth, I like the "turning point" in the Psalm, where Nephi turns from grieving over his sins to recounting how the Lord has blessed him: Incidentally, with tongue thoroughly planted in cheek, once, one of my Seminary teachers wrote on an exam we would get extra credit if we sang a verse from the Psalm. The tongue-in-cheek nature of the invitation notwithstanding, when I read it, in my best operatic, booming, bass-to-baritone voice, I stood up and sang verse 22. (Good times! But ... I can't remember if I got extra credit or not ...)

Here's a quote from the address of which I posted the link earlier that I really like:

I haven't been following the thread slavishly, so please forgive me if someone already has made this point (it's excellent: it bears repeating! ), but, yes, in some cases, specific blessings are tied to obedience to certain commandments. If I obey the Word of Wisdom, all else being equal, chances are pretty good that my health will be better than it would be if I did not obey it. If I obey the Law of Chastity, I don't have to worry about s*xually transmitted !nfections, unplanned (and unwanted) pregnancies, and so on. All of that having been said, God isn't a vending machine. I've stood there beating the machine in frustration until my fists are a bloody pulp waiting for "Blessing A5" for my "two-quarters' worth of obedience," but ... that ain't the way it works. (Eventually, once I passed the "beat-the-machine-in-frustration-until-my-fists-are-bloody" stage, it was pretty liberating to find that out. I let go of a lot of unrealistic expectations I had for myself. And, after a couple of years in casts, my hands are much better, thank you! ) Yes, we are blessed for obedience, but God is an Absolute Sovereign: It is He who decides when, where, under what circumstances, to what extent, and so on, those blessings come. And, in any event, even the best blessings we possibly can imagine in mortality will pale (in fact, they might even be pulverized into dust and blow away in the mortal winds) in comparison to the blessings we will receive in the realm(s) to come. It is then that our obedience will count most. But [or, And] ... we do live in a fallen world: Hewing conscientiously to the principles of the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ didn't save my sister-in-law, who is one of the finest people I have ever known, from dying a horrible death from cancer. Nevertheless, I have no doubt where she is: As the Savior said, "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell." Matthew 10:28, KJV. And I've told my own story several times here: Two major operations, each of which failed ... miserably ... and each of which was followed by a month and a half with my lower half (plus) completely immobilized in plaster, followed, in turn, by months of painful, grueling, and ultimately (it would turn out) fruitless physical therapy. Whereupon those operations, in turn, were followed by three more that threatened the same fate but that, it turned out, ultimately, were successful. Did I do anything different? Was I any "better" (that is, better behaved, more faithful, more obedient, and so on) for the last three than for the former two? Nope! And then, there was law school: I was obedient to what I thought (and to what I think, still) the Lord wanted me to do then, but ... in mortal terms, has it paid off? Nope! Will it ever, in mortality? Probably not. Am I OK with that? Sometimes, I'm "more OK" with it than I am at other times, but ... C'est la vie! As Elder Joseph B. Wirthlin [and his wise, sainted mother] put it, "Come what may, and love it." Yes, oftentimes, this mortal Second Act is bewildering ... because we don't remember the premortal First Act, and the postmortal Third Act hasn't happened yet. I've quoted C.S. Lewis here fairly recently, but perhaps what he wrote has relevance to this topic, as well: For what it's worth.

Feeling pessimistic, were you? (All in fun, Senator. All in fun. )

Nope! You may well be aware of this already, and perhaps everyone else is, too, but the word "conversation" as the Apostle Paul uses it here is broader than simply verbal exchanges between parties. (He already mentions "speech," so if that's all he meant by "conversation," it would be redundant): https://biblehub.com/topical/c/conversation.htm https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2007/04/the-tongue-of-angels?lang=eng

No information about the war. Sorry. Perhaps, though, some might find this to be of interest. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/history/global-histories/nigeria/ng-chronology?lang=eng

Certainly, Sir!

Once you are baptized and have complied with any minimum requirements for length of Church membership (a year, I think?), you can serve as a senior missionary for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints! (Seriously, though, whether you join our ranks or whether we can continue to count on your valued friendship as a fellow Christian of a different stripe, you're OK in my book! )

Mon Dieu! Sorry. Couldn't resist!

Ye told your husband, did ye? An Irish lass, are ye (and a right bonny one, at that, if so)?! (Sorry. Couldn't resist! )

I recognize, fully, that others' mileage varies, and that's fine. I have been the recipient, on a few memorable occasions, of [what I believe to be] miracles. Yet, on the other hand, there have been occasions on which God has seemed inexplicably, stubbornly, frustratingly, maddeningly silent. It is as though the Lord says to me, "Yes, Ken. You can, if you choose, ignore, downplay, or discount the 'Oliver Cowdery, Did-I-not-speak-peace-to-your-mind, What-greater-witness-can-you-have-than-from-God?' moments we've had together in favor, instead, of privileging your 'Brass Heavens' moments. That is one option available to you. But whichever option you choose, that is your choice." The last blessing I received under the hand of a(n) [(inspired? As much as part of me might be reluctant to admit this, I believe so] Priesthood holder, I was told that the Lord was mindful of me in premortality, He is mindful of me in mortality, and He will be mindful of me in the hereafter/postmortality. While, as I said in the beginning, I recognize that others' mileage varies, what more can I ask?

Welp, I hope you're not too defiant in your review! (AutoComplete or AutoCorrect strikes again? ) That would definitely be a problem. Sorry. Couldn't resist! We now return you to your regularly-scheduled on-topic programming, already in progress.

Fair enough. I should have known you were attempting to be punny!