Kenngo1969

This isn't a judgment of you, since I don't know you and I lack any mantle that would require me to sit in judgment of you, My Young Padawan. If any adjustments in attitude be required, caveat lector. I'll tend to my own garden, and leave you to tend to yours. But, perhaps your "outside-of-the-Temple" caveat is the key, there. Personally, I find that if I have become prone to be critical of those who are called to preside over me, to paraphrase something Shakespeare wrote once, "the fault, Dear JVW [Dear Kenngo1969], is not in 'our prophets.' It is in ourselves." If I had been alive in Moses's time, would I have said, "What?! Manna from heaven ... again?!! " If I had been alive in Joseph Smith's time, would I have said, "Leave Missouri?! But, this is Zion! "? If I had been alive in Brigham Young's time, would I have said, "Leave Nauvoo ... for Rocky Mountains and desert?"[1] It might well be true (I have no reason to doubt it: I'm simply "hedging my bets" here as a rhetorical device) that, eventually, you, I, and everyone else who is faithful will receive our own seer stone, but ... why wait? If, indeed, it is true that miracles are happening all around us, but we have become so dulled, so desensitized, that we do not see them [indeed, that we refuse to see them], is it really going to make all that much more of a difference if, finally, President Dallin H. Oaks does something we consider to be truly spectacular? Or will we simply say, "Meh, he's just 'another flash in the pan'!"? If any of us is wondering what, truly, is there to get excited about in the Restored Gospel of Jesus Christ, [not just in Joseph Smith's time, or in Brigham Young's time, or in President Russell M. Nelson's time, but right now] perhaps we should consider asking a recent convert if we can warm ourselves by the light of his or her fire by asking the convert that question. _________________________________ END NOTE I'm reminded of the old "Mormon Rap," which had a line something along the lines of, "I wish I could've seen the look on Brother Brigham's face when he said, 'Yes, Baby, this is the place!'" I would change that line to, "I wish I could've seen the look on everybody else's face when Brother Brigham said, 'Yes, Baby, this is the place!"

The relationship of this post to the thread may be tangential, at best, and certainly, I don't wish to minimize anyone's grief, heartache, and so on, at losing a child, things that, as a non-parent, I have confessed already are well outside my, errrr, ken (please pardon the pun). The next time you meet your son, @Navidad, he will be well unencumbered by the many of what Paul called "the thorns in the flesh" that so vexed him (and that, by extension, so vexed you and the rest of your family) in mortality. I believe that will be quite a reunion, indeed. While "work in the garden" you all must until it occurs, and while, again, I am aware, acutely that this prospect doesn't salve current pain, it is a prospect to which I hope you cling, and which you anticipate eagerly. While this is a time of year in which we celebrate the most important birth in all of history, the import and the impact of that birth is that it was of the only Person in history who was born to die so that each of us, too, might, as He was, be resurrected, in grand glory and perfection, and might live eternally. God be thanked for the marvellous gift of His Divine Son.

Sincerest condolences on your loss. Even after all of these years, still, I am my only child, so I cannot possibly fathom what is like for a parent to lose a child. While we're not Calvinists [thank the Good Lord, Above, for that!], whatever ordinances are performed [or not] on anyone's behalf, ultimately, it is Christ who determines who is saved and who is exalted, and who is not. It is He who is mighty to save, and it is He who is mighty to exalt. You're free to decline any offer you receive for ordinances to be performed on his behalf. Recognizing what I just said at the close of the preceding sentence, no one should be offended at your declining such an offer. Also, depending on the nature and extent of your son's disability, he may not, under the doctrine of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, be accountable (capable of sinning) in the same way that you or I would be. Under the doctrine of the Church, such people are "alive in Christ." See Moroni 8:11-16.

As far as Muslims who become members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, I prefer this Brother's story.

The thing about hobgoblin shoes, if you click them together and say, three times, "There's no place like home!" that's exactly where you end up!

Ich bin Hamburger, aber Ich wohne in Berlin. Oder, Ich bin Berliner, aber Ich wohne in Hamburg. Ich vergesse.

If it weren't for pedantry, I would have no fun at all!

Perhaps he's a bit too inebriated with the exuberance of his own verbosity?

Is that so? Did it pique your interest to the very peak, or only mildly so? This sort of thing really isn't in my ouvre ... but maybe I'll have a peek. (Sorry. Coudn't resist! As the noted Professor of English, the great Dr. Festus Doofus, Ph.D., of the University of Southern Nowhar put it once, "Them homophones, they's tricky thangs!" )

Nah, consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, don'tcha know?!

Maybe it's for a very lay audience?

At least one thing becomes clearer to me as I continue to ponder the subject(s) of this thread: There's more good even in many of the so-called "worst" of us and more bad even in many of the so-called "best" of us than any of the rest of us might suspect. [1] _____________________ END NOTE Thats just a general, slightly tongue-in-cheek, off-the-cuff observation that may or may not hold up well when considered vis-a-vis specific cases. I'm neither prepared nor inclined to defend it when considering specific cases. Was Hitler "good" or "bad"? I don't think any reasonable debate could be had that he wasn't, thoroughly, the latter. Was Edison "good" or "bad"? Well, whatever his flaws, he gave us the lightbulb. Was Carnegie "good" or "bad"? Well, whatever his flaws, he gave us the library system as we know it today. And so on.

I posted the below in response to another thread, but I can't resist posting it again here. I love it: Jeffrey R. Holland (November 2007) "The Tongue of Angels," Ensign, accessed on line at the following address on November 28, 2025: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2007/04/the-tongue-of-angels?lang=eng

P.S.: Seriously, though: One good shiver ... P.P.S.: "On the next episode of Engineering Disasters ..."

Yep. The real blessings that come from obedience are transformational, not just transactional. God isn't Santa Claus, so whatever God wants to give us, by orders of magnitude more, He wants us to become something.

Come to think of it, I'm hoping this wasn't Shipps' book, but Smoot's. I guess we'll find out. It doesn't hurt to have more than one Pearl of Great Price resource.

I'm sure the delay was unavoidable. (I told her she needs an assistant, and that, yes, she's that important! )

Just got word. Thanks!

I had a choice between ordering Ellis Shipp's Pearl of Great Price Commentary from the FAIR Bookstore or from Amazon. I placed my order for 2 copies on or about November 14. [Obviously, I should have gone with Amazon. At least, in that event, if my order had been terminally delayed, I would know that.] Two or three days ago, I sent an email including my order number and inquiring about its status. Nada! Crickets! Should I just kiss that fifty bucks goodbye? (Lesson learned!) Should I send smoke signals or a homing pigeon? Which direction? Any ideas?

For what it's worth, here's what I asked our friend Google Gemini [font of all knowledge], and how Gemini responded (bold/emphasis Gemini's): From a Latter-day Saint perspective, what are Satan's counterfeits to the many virtues listed in the scriptures? Can you give me a side-by-side list of Christ's virtues (or the virtues He asks us [or commands us] to cultivate) and Satan's counterfeits? Based on a Latter-day Saint perspective, Satan is a master counterfeiter who seeks to replace the genuine virtues of the gospel of Jesus Christ with subtle, twisted imitations or outright opposites. His goal is to deceive and lead people away from the light of truth and the path to happiness. The best defense against these counterfeits is to be deeply familiar with the true principles of the gospel, as President Joseph F. Smith taught: "The more deeply we know the truth, the easier it will be to spot the differences when Satan presents us with his counterfeits." ⚔️ Christ's Virtues and Satan's Counterfeits Satan's counterfeits often appeal to the "natural man," feeding vanity, pride, and carnal desires, and they frequently involve the destruction of agency or the false promise of salvation without the need for repentance and obedience. Here is a side-by-side list comparing some Christ-centered virtues with their common Satanic counterfeits discussed in Latter-day Saint teachings and scriptures: Christ's Virtue (Truth) Satan's Counterfeit (Lie or Distortion) Key Concepts Humility (Mosiah 4:11) Pride (Alma 30:53-54; D&C 121:37) Pride is enmity toward God and fellow men; seeking personal honor above all others. Humility recognizes reliance on God. Love/Charity (Moroni 7:47) Lust (Alma 39:9); Selfishness (2 Tim. 3:2) Lust is a selfish, sensual desire often falsely labeled as love. Charity is the pure love of Christ, seeking others' welfare. Repentance/ Godly Sorrow (Alma 42:29) Perfectionism (False Gospel); Guilt/ Shame (Anti-Christ) Perfectionism demands an impossible, immediate sinlessness. True repentance is a joyful process of turning to Christ for help. Spiritual Gifts/True Revelation (D&C 46:16) False "Spirituality"/ Counterfeit Signs (JS—M 1:22; D&C 46:7) False signs often appeal to the sensational or mystical, lack edification, or come through unauthorized channels. Sincere Worship/ True Godliness (D&C 121:45) Priestcraft (Alma 1:12); Flattery (2 Nephi 28:22) Priestcraft is preaching or performing ordinances for money, power, or praise of men, rather than for the welfare of souls. Obedience/ Covenants (D&C 130:20-21) A "Free Pass" to Sin (2 Nephi 28:8) Satan teaches "Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die," convincing people God will justify a "little sin." Agency/Accountability (2 Nephi 2:27) Coercion/No-Risk Salvation (Moses 4:1-4) Satan's plan sought to destroy the agency of man by forcing righteousness, thus removing accountability and the opportunity for growth. Divine Truth/Scripture (D&C 93:24) Lies/Worldly Philosophy (Moses 4:4; 2 Nephi 28:20) Satan is the father of all lies and twists God's word, or introduces "precepts of men mingled with scripture." Confidence in Christ (Hebrews 10:35) Self-Esteem /Confidence in the "Arm of Flesh" (Jer. 17:5; 2 Nephi 4:34) Relying solely on your own inherent worth or ability (self-esteem) without relying on Christ's grace is a counterfeit for true confidence through humility and discipleship. These counterfeits are often described in the scriptures as "flattering words" that lead people away "carefully down to hell," making the path of destruction seem safe and appealing (2 Nephi 28:21-22). "But, how is any of this related to the topic, Ken?" Touché! The more we rely on our own strength, wisdom, capacity, resources, and so on, the less prone we are to acknowledge God's hand in our lives and to be thankful for that with which He blesses us. Consider King Benjamin's sermon in Mosiah 2: He continues in vss. 20-25, and Chapter 2 ends at v. 41: And continuing in Chapter 4: Just "food" for thought. Happy Thanksgiving, everyone.

I thought of a couple of [perhaps, hopefully] related addresses when reading the other contributions to this thread: President Ezra Taft Benson (May 1989) "Beware of Pride," Ensign: Beware of Pride Elder Dallin H. Oaks (June 7, 1992) "Our Strengths Can Become Our Downfall," BYU Speeches: Humility: Our Strengths Can Become Our Downfall - BYU Speeches BYU Speeches If they're not related, or if this is too much of a tangent, feel free to ignore.

I don't know, but, for one thing, it made for loooooong Saturdays every six months. As much as a big part of me will miss the evening session, and as much as some might think, "Oh, come on, Ken! Ya wuss! There isn't that much difference between four hours of meetings and six!", for those in areas of the world (and even in most of the United States) where they don't have the luxury of watching sessions at home in their slippers and jammies over network television, it might well be a welcome change.

I don't think it was then-Elder-now-President Holland's intent to discount anything Nephi went through, and, certainly, it isn't mine. Although perhaps the common thought in the Church of Jesus Christ is that Nephi was entirely too hard on himself when, in the "Psalm of Nephi" chapter of Second Nephi Chapter 4, he chides himself for the temptations he experienced because of what his older brothers did to him, if what you say is anything approaching the truth, actually, perhaps he was too easy on them. (The only way we'll ever know for sure is if we're ever able to ask Nephi: Maybe we'll get that chance, and maybe we won't. We'll simply have to wait and see.) One of the fascinating aspects of the judgment, to me, is how, in a way I do not now (and perhaps cannot possibly) understand, the Lord will [I believe ... OMMV] judge our mortal lives against the standards of our respective times rather than against some arbitrary standard it would be impossible for [m]any of us to meet. In any event, for whatever this is worth, I like the "turning point" in the Psalm, where Nephi turns from grieving over his sins to recounting how the Lord has blessed him: Incidentally, with tongue thoroughly planted in cheek, once, one of my Seminary teachers wrote on an exam we would get extra credit if we sang a verse from the Psalm. The tongue-in-cheek nature of the invitation notwithstanding, when I read it, in my best operatic, booming, bass-to-baritone voice, I stood up and sang verse 22. (Good times! But ... I can't remember if I got extra credit or not ...)

Here's a quote from the address of which I posted the link earlier that I really like: