The Nehor

So anyone who is not an Abrahamic monotheist is an atheist? Everyone was an atheist until YHWH ascended to become a cosmic deity?

It is worth noting that the pre-exile prophets were not what we think of as prophets. In the Hebrew Bible/Old Testament we generally get two kinds of prophets. The ecstatic prophets would put themselves into ecstatic states to prophesy. They would act out dramas and put themselves into trances with things like self-cutting and (in some cases) hallucinogenics. Ezekiel probably falls into this camp. Elijah is more ecstatic. You also have the prophet groups like the one Saul joined. Then there are the apostolic prophets. This doesn’t mean apostle in the LDS sense, it means apostle in the “messenger” sense. These are prophets that get a message and deliver it. This is people like Jeremiah. Prophets generally deliver bad news. They are telling people what is wrong. Prophets are curmudgeons and doomsayers. They function because they have political backing. Once they lost political backing there wasn’t much of a niche for prophets to fill. Generally the prophets are not leaders. They are consultants. The equivalent of modern Church leader prophets isn’t there in the prophets of the kingdoms of Judah and Israel or any of the post-exile prophets. As to why they vanished most of those with a prophetic cast to them in early New Testament times were apocalyptic. In other words they were preaching a coming end of the world or transition to a messianic age. John the Baptist and Jesus fit into this mold as did many others. The Essenes who left the Dead Sea Scrolls were a group dedicated to apocalypticism. After the series of revolts against Rome that wiped out multiple rebel groups who were expecting a literal deus ex machina to save them from Roman power the Jewish leadership was sick of apocalypticism. It was getting lots of people killed. Expecting the messiah to come down and save you was turning a lot of these groups into what amounted to death cults. Read what the Essenes wrote that they expected to happen when they went to war and it is pretty easy to guess what happened to them. So the Jews largely abandoned that kind of apocalyptic fervor. There were resurgences of it within Judaism. Sabbatai Zevi in the 1600s is probably the most prominent. When he abandoned his faith when threatened with death and then died some of his followers created a movement somewhat similar to what happened with Jesus where they insisted he would return and fulfill the Messianic promises but so far that hasn’t happened. There was a lot of pushback against that kind of messianic fervor again and some restrictions and warnings were put in place around the study of Kaballah to try to restrain this kind of apocalyptic fervor. There are groups and leaders within the modern state of Israel fulfilling the mandate of the ancient prophets. They tend to be more like teachers. They call for ethical conduct in the mold of prophets like Isaiah and social justice in the mold of prophets like Amos and ‘speak unpleasant truths to power’ in the mold of Elijah. They aren’t state-backed though.

Got five New Year’s Eve kisses. Not a record but still respectable. It was a good evening. Now should go sleep. It is almost 2:30.

One more Doctrine and Covenants section we ignore.

And thus transgender people should be denied rights. Welp, I’m convinced. No idea what the article said. The link was broken. Seeing someone twerking is “sexualizing/grooming children”? What do these terms even mean to you? Do you have any concept of them beyond you personally not liking them and interpreting that to mean that they will transform children into lust-crazed queers? That is not how kids work. In Florida being queer in public is sexually explicit. Books that mention queer people existing is sexually explicit. It is Florida. They’re insane. Of course the parade is nervous. They have an authoritarian governor targeting queer people because he is a bigot. Keeping their heads down makes sense and counting on the courts and law enforcement to be fair and balanced to queer people is a sucker’s game. They weren’t arrested because *checks notes* Seattle doesn’t have anti-nudity laws. Womp, womp, waaaahhhh. This is outrage porn. I mean the reporting on it. Not the original incident. It is “sexualizing/grooming” children to hate and should not be tolerated. That is assuming it happened. If the only sources are Breitbart and noted liar Libs of TikTok I am dubious. For those unfamiliar with Libs of TikTok they have become particularly famous for stating that mass shooters are transgender when they aren’t. They have occasionally acknowledged the errors but doesn’t take the posts down and keeps doing it. They are a transphobic bigot.

And fiddle faddle and rot. I don’t think you know what perversion is. You should take my course. And the impact appears to be negligible. You’re uncomfortable with it. Don’t project that on some kids. Yet you only obsess about queer “sexualization and grooming” which is a vague and meaningless phrase that seems to encompass things that make you uncomfortable. As a pervert I don’t believe you.

That is not documentation. It is propaganda. Also even if it were accurate that is not what sexualization and grooming even mean as I have explained to you before ad infinitum. You aren’t nearly as worried about kids being exposed to sexuality as you are queer sexuality because kids drown in heterosexual sex material and demonstrations yet the rare pride parade in a city with especially loose laws on public decency that usually have limited numbers of children attending that show some skin is somehow a great offense. You’re straining at gnats while swallowing camels. If you actually cared about this you would be targeting the real dangers. You don’t, so you aren’t. Unless you are willing to condemn all real dangers to children instead of fixating on the small amount coming from the people that your puppetmasters are pointing you at I refuse to take this seriously. Show some substantive and reasoned opposition to the general sexualization of culture and maybe I will bother to engage with you. Until then you are clearly just picking on the marginalized because you are afraid to call out the powerful. And that is cowardly, pathetic, and sad.

Yet you back the policies of a perv who brags about walking in on underage girls changing rooms. I doubt your sincerity.

LOL!

The same people who bought into the doomerism about gay marriage, the Civil Rights Movement, desgregation, the Satanic panic, the abortion panic, the racially charged drug panic, and the transgender “ideology” panic never learn. They are doomed to fall for each new moral panic because the people behind these panics are telling them what they want to hear. They are shameless about being wrong and just move on without guilt at any damage their support of these movements cause when it goes out of fashion or becomes impossible to defend and then jump through the next hoop they are pointed at. I can’t understand how they don’t get suspicious that this is a vicious cycle and they keep falling for it every time.

Talking about whether my friends deserve basic human rights is not something I can politely sit back and debate in my tweed jacket in my armchair in the Ivory Tower as if it is an abstract philosophical discussion. WRONG! WRONG! WRONG! Trans people were generally flying under the radar contentedly until the Right saw it as a great issue to distract their witless followers with. A bright shining moral panic just waiting to be unleashed. I watched it happen. Trans people saw the signs and knew it was coming. They didn’t want it. They knew it would put many of them physically in danger. No laws were compelling speech. You were lied to. No children were being groomed. It was all a big chunk of lies and you swallowed it all. How have transgender people actually impacted your life? How? Did one of them steal your lunch money or something? Instead you are running around like a headless chicken repeating scripted hypotheticals about the damage they might be DOING THIS VERY MOMENT….. Just like every other moral panic. That doesn’t make you a good person or your views healthy or inoffensive. By that you mean you know some queer people? And this is why substantive reasoning would be pointless if it were needed to rebut you. Which it isn’t. You can’t even decide if this topic is “supposedly” important to me or if I am “in thrall” to the ideology. Pick a lane. I have every reason not to defend “trans ideology”. My life would be simpler if I didn’t. Like my other disagreements with the Church I would probably be better off socially if I would just shut up and toe the party line. The idea that I did this out of some warped self-interest is deeply weird and smells of projection. My accepting transgender people as worthy of support hurt. It took painful steps to get to. Just like accepting the rights of other queer people did. It was unpleasant. It involved self-loathing. It wasn’t fun. If anyone has a vested interest in their position it is you. You would have to say the apostles are wrong to change course. That is hard. The idea that the person turning against their background is the easy path is a lie many in in-groups tell themselves to cast themselves as the strong and stalwart ones. Most religions use this kind of rhetoric against dissidents. So do many political groups. Families sometimes do it.

It is an expression. What the writer thinks constitutes an epidemic are the numbers you see in that very report. You’re nitpicking verbiage. Doesn’t matter. If you are rhetorically providing cover for those who use violence that fig leaf is about as effective as Pilate’s hand washing. You’ve basically just slipped into tone policing. The number of trans people murdered doubles over four years when rhetoric demonizing trans people is used as a tool by bigots and you are trying to pretend that it might be a coincidence because the perpetrators aren’t loudly saying they are bigots doing it for bigoted reasons? Do you consistently apply this standard of evidence? No. I have seen you react to crimes against LDS people and you assume bigotry played a role until proven otherwise. You’re being ridiculous. In 1930s Germany would you have been demanding evidence that the increased violence against Jewish people had nothing to do with Nazi rhetoric because it might just be a coincidence? Yes, we know. Every time a marginalized group wants rights it is part of a larger conspiracy. Aboltiionist only want the slaves freed because they would make money due to having investments in other industries that would benefit from slavery ending. The Civil Rights movement was a Communist plot. The Gay Rights movement was actually trying to turn children (and the frogs) gay. Everything has to be a conspiracy. March of Dimes Syndrome is ridiculous and you are ridiculous for believing it. If anyone seriously comes to this message board specifically to get informed about transgender issues I suspect they aren’t the brightest bulbs. That would be like going to a Catholic message board to learn about the Pro-Choice position. Awww…..thanks. And no, I am not really an advocate. More of a defender. You love to share your toxic tales of their depravity. I push back. I am defending my friends. If that means making transgender rights deniers look ridiculous I do that. If that means sharing some statistics I sometimes do that. I am not looking to build the ultimate case against the anti-transgender weirdos. Much better informed people have already done that elsewhere. You aren’t looking to be convinced or informed. You have your dogma to defend. You just like to fight.

I mean, that is what God supposedly taught back in the days of Jesus. Sort of. Except that hell came in later. And back in the days before the Babylonian exile the righteous and the wicked were both consigned to Sheol so God isn’t that interested in sharing details about the afterlife with us. Who knows? Next dispensation heaven might be Valhalla where we get to murder our enemies for all eternity. WOOHOO!

You are whining because I won’t provide evidence for an “epidemic” of violence when there is no evidential standard for what constitutes an “epidemic” of violence. Am I supposed to pull out a peer-reviewed study that quantifies that it is an epidemic? Do you realize how abstract and stupid your supposed “substantive” argument is? I can (and have) shown that violence against transgender people has been steadily increasing along with the rhetoric and demonization that you are rhetorically supporting. You are just upset that you think the word “epidemic” is too strong because it doesn’t serve your interests for it to be characterized like that. The actual increase in violence is, of course, unimportant. You just don’t want people calling attention to it or being hyperbolic about it? And you think you are being serious and scholarly? Wow….just wow.

Decorum is overrated and no, no gravity. I care about the issue. I have transgender friends who have been assaulted because they are transgender. You are playing with abstract concepts that have no meaning to you beyond church dogma and the stupid culture war authoritarians use as a destraction. I had an envoy of magical cookie making elves visit me and give me the Keebler Peace Prize for my efforts. Nope, it is the same. All religions regularly set aside things or come up with “clarifications” about things. Catholicism for example has not been static in its beliefs or practices for over a millenium. This is what they provide to transgender people? Generic quotes that have no special bearing or focus on transgender people? Wow, how uninspiring. Yeah you do. You’ll make every imaginable excuse for the church and if even a smidgen of doubt exists hold onto that as a victory. What is probable or likely, even overwhelmingly probable, can be dismissed by the small possibility it is wrong. If I wanted such a debate I definitely wouldn’t have it with you. Your approach primarily involves opinion pieces and scare articles. It would be like arguing in Congress. And you say that whether it is true or not so what does it matter what I say.

When I respond with analysis and reasoning you dismiss it for fallacious reasons. Why bother being serious if you won’t be? There is no one to be won over. If a position disagrees with church dogma you will reject it. Insisting you are using critical analysis while adhering to dogma is a contradiction. There is no way for me to win. The game is rigged. Also you didn’t enjoy the Lady Gaga song parody? YOU PHILISTINE!!!!!!! I am sure. I have seen people refer to it as such.

I don’t believe you. If it were only this topic I might but I have seen you buy into many ridiculous arguments. The common factor is that when you do so it is an argument in service to church dogma. It is a blind spot. Perhaps you are reasonable in other areas. I don’t know. You act like we are holding some monumental debate. We aren’t. You post opinion pieces that occasionally appeal to facts. I sometimes refute them. Even if the refutation is sound you refuse to accept it. There is nothing being established or clarified here. We know you are a gender essentialist. Also that you think kids knowing that queer people exist is somehow “sexualizing’ them. So at first you claimed that transgender people were dying at a lower rate per capita and now you seem to be acknowledging that is not true but are instead going to argue that they aren’t being killed because they are transgender. Ugh……..of course we must give the benefit of doubt to the murderer. When everyone is demonizing transgender people and them being killed is on the rise we should assume the attacker wasn’t targeting them for their (often) obvious characteristic. Also I love that you put “he” in there. I am guessing you are thinking of transwomen here and intentionally misgendering them while (as usual) erasing transmen. This is why I am convinced that you know nothing and despite your claims of being well read haven’t actually read stuff you disagree with. After sex is one of the most dangerous times for a transgender person. They know this. They will tell you this. They warn new transgender people about this. Particularly if it is a casual sex or sex worker hookup. Many transphobes (usually cis men) are attracted to transgender people. When horny they seek one out. Their lust carries them through the encounter and then they hit what is sometimes called post-nut clarity. They are no longer horny and driven by lust and they realize what they have done and hate it. Instead of hating themselves and taking responsibility they blame their partner and imagine they have been tricked or seduced. Their masculinity is at risk and they lash out in defense of it and assault and (more rarely) kill their partner. A similar thing can happen with cishet men with cishet women if they are attracted to someone they also hate. Sometimes this is racism or classism or some other form of bigotry. It is less common per capita as it is less of a threat to their sense of masculinity. I can say I have experienced a similar reaction. In my days of sin and vice I hooked up with some “straight” guys looking to experiment with another guy. When sex was over they would clearly be disgusted with themselves. Most fled. A few turned violent. Luckily I was able to repel the few times I was physically attacked. This is what good wholesome Christian homophobia and transphobia does to a lot of men. Makes them hate people they are attracted to. So they are somehow being killed more than cis people because……what? Few acts of violence are totally random. If you attack someone “at random” and the chosen target is a transgender person it is probably transphobia. Congrats, you discovered what I said above. So now you are focusing on transgender people having a “duty to disclose” to avoid being assaulted. Most would agree there is a duty to disclose. I know almost every transgender person I have been with has. Instead you focus on deception and give rhetorical cover to the person assaulting. It is fun finding areas where ostensible Christians get deeply interested in the rights of people soliciting casual sex and johns seeking out sex workers. When a transgender person involved they must not victimize the cishet person by not being completely up front. Do I need to go into the endless deceptions cishet men frequently use to get someone into bed with them? I am trying to imagine how you get married without realizing your partner is transgender. There is so much paranoia about this. We must not be tricked!!!!!!!! Transgender people might give me funny feelings for the WRONG kind of person. Fear turns to hate. Why do you keep asking for reasons transgender people are targeted for violence when you are bringing up the reasons yourself? A poster on this site once talked openly and matter of factly about how being “tricked” by a transgender woman would lead him to attacking her when he found out. There are incidents where a guy catcalls at a transgender woman on the street, discovers she is transgender, and then assaults her for ‘tricking’ him. That is toxic masculinity for you. Existing while transgender is a threat. Welp, throw it out then. We don’t have signed confessions from every act of violence against a transgender person so the fact that they are being assaulted more per capita must have nothing to do with transphobia. “I don’t want to think about how my rhetoric might contribute to violence so I am not listening.” Not welcome.

It is either that or join the Oneida Perfectionists.

Except that is not what scripture says (or meant). If you haven’t found a huge loophole yet you obviously aren’t megarich and are one of those filthy poors. Same. Can I charge myself advisor fees? Depends on if the price of gold has gone up or down an equivalent amount. Kolob is still on the gold standard. Only on Tuesdays.

Okay, maybe I was being unfair. You took the time to copy and paste a lot of links to articles and videos that ostensibly support your positions so I should do the same. A transgender group discussing how pursuing fashion options brings fulfillment. A group of transgender people discussing how to help a friend who wants to detransition President Trump and Vice President J.D. Vance discussing transgender issues in a nuanced way And for those who think there is an epidemic of minors getting transgender surgeries enjoy this handy chart: An article refuting common anti-transgender talking points Let me know if you need more.

The biblical literalism thing is mostly a modern thing that only really took off on the USA. Part of the legacy of being descendants of the religious wackos no one in Europe wanted I suppose.

I recognize some of those articles. True. False. Just say it flatters what you want to believe so you believe it. You don’t have to pretend to finding it interesting on some neutral level. I found this “INTERESTING”: https://reports.hrc.org/an-epidemic-of-violence-2024

Cool, you reposted a bunch of stuff I have previously refuted yet again. And your conclusion at the end there is a lot of meaningless untrue rhetoric. And violence against transgender people is much much more pervasive than violence by transgender people as all studies show so you again demonstrate you have no idea what the hell you are talking about. Unless of course you are victim-blaming and suggesting violence would decrease if transgender people would just stop existing so the transphobes you align with didn’t have targets to unleash their anger at. Of course even if that were the case they would just attack and ostracize cis people who look a little androgynous. Gotta have your moral panic that will hurt a lot of people before again being shown to be nonsense. Then nothing will be learned and the next moral panic will start. Hooray for useless moralizing religious bigots!

I am old enough to remember having a third hour and we still didn’t get answers to these kinds of questions. Would really require prophetic clarification or maybe a fourth hour?

You trust vaccine-denier and known quack RFK Jr’s politicized HHS to tell the truth about medicine? LMAO Oh, and that opinion piece is written by well known anti-transgender activists and wants to explain that it is okay, this was mostly written by liberals so you can trust us. I guess it fooled you but I don’t think many who support transgender rights will fall for it. Credulity does seem to abound in many these days. This isn’t a shift in the general medical consensus which is still in the developed world following the consensus of data on how to help transgender people. That rogue cranks have been handed control over a government agency doesn’t change that. It just means we have idiots in charge of the HHS who are hard at work making measles great again. This is pathetic.