Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
lostindc

The Church is potentially spending 129 million to purchase a London office building.  

Recommended Posts

4 minutes ago, rpn said:

I will never understand the argument in the OP.   Doesn't anyone know that in order to have funds to build things, do humanitarian things, you need regular and substantial and diversified sources of revenue?    The church invests (and tries to do it responsibly and cautiously).   So that creates or supports jobs, in those communities and allows the church the flexibility to do what God wants for His children.   That is good stewardship, not anything negative.

It is gratuitous antiMormonism/antiChristianity.  We've heard it before:

Quote

Woman, your fine ointment, brand new and expensive
Could have been saved for the poor
Why has it been wasted? We could have raised maybe
Three hundred silver pieces or more
People who are hungry, people who are starving
They matter more than your feet and hair!

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
56 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

I don't argue that there was an extermination order. However, I will argue that it wasn't carried out nor can it compare AT ALL to how Native Americans were treated by federal, state, and local governments. That bordered on genocide. Please don't try to hold up the LDS experience of persecution as being somehow greater than the Native experience because of a legal paper.

ETA: by "not carried out" I mean that the LDS were not exterminated, they were expatriated.

If my poor memory serves there were saints murdered as a result of the Extermination Order, Haun's Mill Massacre comes to mind. The term extermination is effective for even one person killed in response to the Order. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
14 minutes ago, SouthernMo said:

I was once in the Porsche Design Store at City Creek Center in Salt Lake. There was a leather jacket there that cost $1200!

My heart still aches that I didn’t buy that jacket. Think of all the humanitarian good that would have come from that purchase...

Or, maybe we can use less hyperbole and agree that the church’s mission goes FAR beyond giving food and shelter away, and we need to be careful in judging how money is spent. BUT, maybe, just maybe, not EVERYTHING (as you say) the church does is humanitarian aid.

And, perhaps, just perhaps,  you have a limited understanding of economics are extraordinarily short-sighted in your view--with a noticeable blind spot particularly for the spiritual side of things.

What I have noticed is that the people who are quickest to find fault with how the Church manages its money, tend not to be the most charitable of souls relatively speaking--long on virtue signaling, and short on philanthropic action. Let's call it the Judas effect (Jn 12:3-9)--not that this applies to you.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Share this post


Link to post
43 minutes ago, USU78 said:

Infrastructure, both procedural, institutional, and material, is necessary to make a serious stab at providing sustained and meaningful aid.

Material includes buildings. 

The church has over 32 billion in the stock market.  They are the largest land owner in Florida.  They own multiple million dollar buildings.  Just when does the sustained and meaningful aid kick in?

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

Whoa baby...no need for clean water or help anywhere...so glad they can do this!!  Are you kidding me?🤔 

It is not one or the other:

https://www.ldsphilanthropies.org/humanitarian-services/funds/clean-water

Quote

Donations to the Humanitarian Aid Fund support Clean Water and other humanitarian initiatives approved by Church leaders. More Information

One billion people suffer thirst and disease because they lack clean water. Humanitarian Services of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, who operates LDS Charities, builds water and sanitation systems and teaches communities hygiene and system maintenance, empowering them to meet their long-term water needs.

Last year, Humanitarian Services provided clean water to 657,500 people in 28 countries. People in 76 countries and territories have been helped since 2002.

One hundred percent of every dollar donated is used to help those in need without regard to race, religion, or ethnic origin.

 

Edited by Calm
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
2 minutes ago, sunstoned said:

The church has over 32 billion in the stock market.  They are the largest land owner in Florida.  They own multiple million dollar buildings.  Just when does the sustained and meaningful aid kick in?

We've heard it before:

Woman, your fine ointment, brand new and expensive
Could have been saved for the poor
Why has it been wasted? We could have raised maybe
Three hundred silver pieces or more
People who are hungry, people who are starving
They matter more than your feet and hair!
  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
9 minutes ago, sunstoned said:

No, you are wrong.  Being a high end real estate investment corporation has nothing to do with humanitarian aid.  Nothing at all.

One would have to be profoundly blind (mentally and spiritually) to see it that way. But, to each their own.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
18 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

Whoa baby...no need for clean water or help anywhere...so glad they can do this!!  Are you kidding me?🤔 

John 4. There is clean and living water and to spare. No, we aren't kidding.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Share this post


Link to post
4 minutes ago, Wade Englund said:

And, perhaps, just perhaps,  you have a limited understanding of economics are extraordinarily short-sighted in your view--with a noticeable blind spot particularly for the spiritual side of things.

What I have noticed is that the people who are quickest to find fault with how the Church manages its money, tend not to be the most charitable of souls relatively speaking--long on virtue signaling, and short on philanthropic action. Let's call it the Judas effect (Jn 12:3-9)--not that this applies to you.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Please tell me what my spiritual blind spots might be, and why you bring them into this discussion?

And you’re still missing my point, I think.  I agree that many people (here and elsewhere) can be WAY too critical of how he church spends its money. I agree, there are economic implications of a mall or other investments that could do so so so much good!

What I have difficulty with is your superlative that everything the church does is humanitarian aid.  It seems like you’re defending the church on every front and that it can do no wrong. All good from everything it does?  That’s just not realistic (in any organization).  Let’s be reasonable. 

Share this post


Link to post
52 minutes ago, carbon dioxide said:

Don't know but its a one time purchase.  Its not like the church does this every year.

yes, they make this deals every year.

https://www.sltrib.com/religion/local/2017/10/14/historian-digs-into-the-hidden-world-of-mormon-finances-shows-how-church-went-from-losing-money-to-making-money-lots-of-it/

https://archive.sltrib.com/article.php?id=54478720&itype=cmsid

Like it or not, the church is a multi-billion dollar real estate investment corporation.

 

Share this post


Link to post
15 minutes ago, filovirus said:

Spending money on one thing does not preclude the ability to spend money on another thing. A perceived disparity is just that: perceived. We have no idea how much the church spends on humanitarian aid each year. Between the Bishop's storehouse, paying for members bills as needed, responding to disaster relief, and donations to charitable organizations, I'm guessing it is quite a bit.

Covering all overhead for LDS Philanthropies is probably a sizable chunk.

Also subsidizing BYU's charitable projects such as that community life altering drill:

https://news.byu.edu/news/students-build-smaller-equally-powerful-version-village-drill

And then there is the Pathways worldwide educational program that has to be massive even if staffed in part by volunteers.

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
8 minutes ago, Wade Englund said:

One would have to be profoundly blind (mentally and spiritually) to see it that way. But, to each their own.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

funny thing.  I was just thinking the same thing of you.,

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
9 minutes ago, USU78 said:

We've heard it before:

Woman, your fine ointment, brand new and expensive
Could have been saved for the poor
Why has it been wasted? We could have raised maybe
Three hundred silver pieces or more
People who are hungry, people who are starving
They matter more than your feet and hair!

I am not going to argue.  Maybe Jesus is happy with the way the money is being spent.

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, lostindc said:

The Church is potentially spending 129 million to purchase a London office building.  How much does the Church spend in humanitarian aid each year?  

I once looked up people who had criticisms of Mother Theresea.  I wanted to see if there was any dirt on her - she seemed so universally accepted as a true disciple of Christ.  Sure enough, people with gripes about her are out there.  Wanna know what their gripes are?  That she used her power and resources to help the poor in the wrong way.  She should have spent more time and effort doing X instead of Y.

Quote

This purchase seems grand and spacious

Heh.  Someone pointing a mocking finger of scorn at the church, along with the accusation that the church lives in the great and spacious building?

I'm going to have to file this in my "criticisms of my church that don't really hold any water".  

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
2 minutes ago, SouthernMo said:

Please tell me what my spiritual blind spots might be, and why you bring them into this discussion?

Actually, you brought it into the conversation by ignoring in your response the spiritual aspect mentioned in my post.

2 minutes ago, SouthernMo said:

And you’re still missing my point, I think.  I agree that many people (here and elsewhere) can be WAY too critical of how he church spends its money. I agree, there are economic implications of a mall or other investments that could do so so so much good!

What I have difficulty with is your superlative that everything the church does is humanitarian aid.  It seems like you’re defending the church on every front and that it can do no wrong. All good from everything it does?  That’s just not realistic (in any organization).  Let’s be reasonable. 

Perhaps you failed to notice the very important qualifier "ultimately" in my post. That qualifier makes my comment quite reasonable--at least for those with eyes to see.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Share this post


Link to post

Something new to me:

https://yserve.byu.edu/

Quote

The Center for Service and Learning supports the fourth Aim of a BYU Education—“lifelong learning and service”--by coordinating service opportunities in the local community for BYU students.

In order to fulfill this mission, the Center offers over 70 community service programs, which serve individuals who have cognitive or physical disabilities, children and the elderly, at-risk children, and provide humanitarian service. Some of these programs originate in the Center, but many of them are aligned with non-profit agencies in the community, such as Habitat for Humanity, Community Action, and Best Buddies. Each community service program is administered by student leaders, all of whom are volunteers.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
28 minutes ago, Jeanne said:

Whoa baby...no need for clean water or help anywhere...so glad they can do this!!  Are you kidding me?🤔 

The Church drops at least 3 Grand every two weeks in my stake for food at the Bishop\s Storehouse, and that's not including people who need help right now

besides of which check this out

https://www.mormonnewsroom.org/article/chad-eliminates-maternal-neonatal-tetanus

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
5 minutes ago, sunstoned said:

funny thing.  I was just thinking the same thing of you.,

As if you would know...or I would care. ;)

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

Share this post


Link to post
Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, Wade Englund said:

What I have noticed is that the people who are quickest to find fault with how the Church manages its money, tend not to be the most charitable of souls relatively speaking--long on virtue signaling, and short on philanthropic action. Let's call it the Judas effect (Jn 12:3-9)--not that this applies to you.

Then why bother mentioning it?

Edited by Calm
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
3 minutes ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

I once looked up people who had criticisms of Mother Theresea.  I wanted to see if there was any dirt on her - she seemed so universally accepted as a true disciple of Christ.  Sure enough, people with gripes about her are out there.

When a person is being considered for beatification (sainthood), there often is someone asked to be the "devil's advocate" -- to argue against that person. Christopher Hitchens was asked to do that during the process for Mother Teresa. I find it humorous that the avowed atheist helped out in a Catholic proceeding :) 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Quote

Elder Andersen said the significance of the meeting with Vice President Mohadi was to “express to him our desire to help improve Zimbabwe.” He noted that Vice President Mohadi had made a specific request for support with the development of clean-water wells in more remote areas of Zimbabwe.
“We want to help in every way we can,” said Elder Andersen. “We are not a wealthy people but we are good people, and we share what we have,” he added.

https://www.mormonnewsroom.co.zw/article/elder-andersen-meets-with-zimbabwes-vice-president-mohadi-pledges-support

$129,000,000 for an office building, but we are not wealthy.

Share this post


Link to post
2 minutes ago, Calm said:

Then why bother mentioning it?

Leaving options open.

Thanks, -Wade Englund-

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
5 minutes ago, MiserereNobis said:

When a person is being considered for beatification (sainthood), there often is someone asked to be the "devil's advocate" -- to argue against that person. Christopher Hitchens was asked to do that during the process for Mother Teresa. I find it humorous that the avowed atheist helped out in a Catholic proceeding :) 

Interesting tidbit, thanks for posting this.

Share this post


Link to post

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  
  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...