Church news reiterates immigration stance

[Danzo]

13 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Of course, not all illegal immigrants are criminals

The vast majority of them are not criminals.

 

14 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

but anyone who is here illegally is violating the law

The vast majority of people who are here legally also violate one law or another.  Unfortunately there are so many laws and they are so complicated, that it is now almost impossible to be in compliance with all federal, state and local laws and regulations. 

 

16 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Starting with ending the flow

Or we could just start by changing the law.

I really don't think living the law of the gospel involves calling our brothers and sisters "Flow" 

[Danzo]

Just now, Pink said:

They are all criminals if they entered illegally, dumbass!

To be a criminal, you need to be convicted of a crime.  At least in the United States. 

[Rain]

4 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Indeed. Honest question....I don't know how a person clear violating the law can be honest in all things. Could you please explain?

I've often heard that question is the hardest for people to answer because there are just so many times in our lives where we end up not being honest. Technically, anyone speaking about politics on this board should answer "no" to the honesty question.  So I would have to ask you how can a person clearly violating board rules be honest in all things?

Note, I am not judging anyone on this. I'm not saying one is better than the other.  I just don't see how one can be honest according to reccomend interviews when violating rules they said they would and not honest when violating laws of a country. 

[Bernard Gui]

4 minutes ago, Danzo said:

The vast majority of them are not criminals.

 

The vast majority of people who are here legally also violate one law or another.  Unfortunately there are so many laws and they are so complicated, that it is now almost impossible to be in compliance with all federal, state and local laws and regulations. 

 

Or we could just start by changing the law.

I really don't think living the law of the gospel involves calling our brothers and sisters "Flow" 

Anyone who is here illegally is violating the law. 

That is no excuse. When the cop pulls me over for speeding I don't get off by pointing out all the folks rushing past us.

Yes, changing the law is something we can do. That's going to be extremely difficult. Just look at the comments on this board.

No, I don't accept  your judgement.

[Bernard Gui]

2 minutes ago, Rain said:

I've often heard that question is the hardest for people to answer because there are just so many times in our lives where we end up not being honest. Technically, anyone speaking about politics on this board should answer "no" to the honesty question.  So I would have to ask you how can a person clearly violating board rules be honest in all things?

Note, I am not judging anyone on this. I'm not saying one is better than the other.  I just don't see how one can be honest according to reccomend interviews when violating rules they said they would and not honest when violating laws of a country. 

Quote

When I was a boy,
World was better spot.
What was so was so,
What was not was not.

Now I am a man—
World have change a lot:
Some things nearly so,
Others nearly not. 

There are times I almost think
I am not sure of what I absolutely know.
Very often find confusion
In conclusion I concluded long ago.

In my head are many facts
That, as a student, I have studied to procure.
In my head are many facts
Of which I wish I was more certain I was sure!
Is a puzzlement. What to tell a growing son?

What, for instance, shall I say to him of women?
Shall I educate him on the ancient lines?
Shall I tell the boy, as far as he is able,
To respect his wives and love his concubines?

Shall I tell him every one is like the other,
And the better one of two is really neither?
If I tell him this, I think he won’t believe it—
And I nearly think I don't believe it either!

When my father was a king,
He was a king who knew exactly what he knew,
And his brain was not a thing
Forever swinging to and fro and fro and to.
Shall I then be like my father
And be willfully unmovable and strong?
Or is better to be right?
Or am I right when I believe I may be wrong?

Shall I join with other nations in alliance?
If allies are weak, am I not best alone?
If allies are strong with power to protect me,
Might they not protect me out of all I own?

Is a danger to be trusting one another,
One will seldom want to do what other wishes...
But unless someday somebody trust somebody,
There’ll be nothing left on earth excepting fishes!

There are times I almost think
Nobody sure of what he absolutely know.
Ev’rybody find confusion
In conclusion he concluded long ago,

And it puzzle me to learn
That though a man may be in doubt of what he know,
Very quickly will he fight,
He’ll fight to prove that what he does not know is so!

Oh-h-h, oh-h-h!
Sometimes I think that people going mad!
Ah-h-h, ah-h-h!
Sometimes I think that people not so bad!

But no matter what I think
I must go on living life.
As leader of my kingdom I must go forth,
Be father to my children,
And husband to each wife—
Et cetera, et cetera, and so forth.

If my Lord in Heaven, Buddha, show the way,
Ev’ry day I try to live another day.
If my Lord in Heaven, Buddha, show the way,
Ev’ry day I do my best for one more day,
But...
Is a puzzlement!

 

[Bernard Gui]

17 minutes ago, Danzo said:

we all are violators of the law. We are all sinners.  We are perfected in Christ, we don't have to be perfect before coming to Christ. 

Well, of course. Perhaps there should be no boundaries at the temple. 

[Danzo]

2 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Anyone who is here illegally is violating the law

We are all sinners (except you, of course)

 

2 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

That is no excuse. When the cop pulls me over for speeding I don't get off by pointing out all the folks rushing past us.

I just got pulled over by a police officer a few weeks ago, for making an illegal u turn.  He gave me a warning and let me go.  

 

4 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

No, I don't accept  your judgement

you really should not be concerned by my judgment. 

[Danzo]

2 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Well, of course. Perhaps there should be no boundaries at the temple. 

Or perhaps we should accept the boundaries set forth by the Prophets and Apostles and not invent our own. 

[Bernard Gui]

1 hour ago, Danzo said:

It always puzzles me to hear this comment. As I sit here at work being paid by people who are here illegally to report to the US government that they are here illegally.  

People seem to think that there are hoards of people hiding in the bushes, coming out at night to wreck havoc,  when they are just people like you and me.  They go to church, live and volunteer in the community., pay their taxes and work like the rest of us. 

Not hordes, obviously. It only takes a few very dedicated bad folks to wreak havoc. Our enemies would be stupid not to take advantage of this situation. But, of course, none of them would do such a thing. 

[Bernard Gui]

Just now, Danzo said:

Or perhaps we should accept the boundaries set forth by the Prophets and Apostles and not invent our own. 

Such as being honest in all our doings? Who invented that one?

[Bernard Gui]

7 minutes ago, Pink said:

Well, that's gonna get this shut down if nothing else does. We really don't need this. Please delete these nonsense posts.

Edited February 12, 2025 by Bernard Gui

[Bernard Gui]

7 minutes ago, Danzo said:

We are all sinners (except you, of course)

There you go again.

7 minutes ago, Danzo said:

 

I just got pulled over by a police officer a few weeks ago, for making an illegal u turn.  He gave me a warning and let me go.  

So? I doubt he would have let you off if you had pointed out all the other folks around who he hadn't stopped and whined about you being the one who got caught.

7 minutes ago, Danzo said:

 

you really should not be concerned by my judgment. 

I'm not. Why are you passing it, nevertheless?

 

Edited February 12, 2025 by Bernard Gui

[Danzo]

Just now, Bernard Gui said:

Not hordes, obviously. It only takes a few very dedicated bad folks to wreak havoc. Our enemies would be stupid not to take advantage of this situation. But, of course, none of them would do such a thing. 

There are plenty of US Citizens that are dedicated bad folks.  There really is no need to recruit foreigners. 

[Bernard Gui]

14 minutes ago, Danzo said:

To be a criminal, you need to be convicted of a crime.  At least in the United States. 

You are not committing a crime unless you get caught?

[Bernard Gui]

Just now, Danzo said:

There are plenty of US Citizens that are dedicated bad folks.  There really is no need to recruit foreigners. 

I think you missed the point.

[MiserereNobis]

On 2/10/2025 at 2:54 PM, smac97 said:

I don't think run-of-the-mill Canadians are going to resent Americans who have no particularized say about tariffs.

Check out the videos of NHL games recently where Canadians boo during the US Anthem.

Compare that to videos in the past where Canadians would sing along with the US Anthem.

[Tacenda]

10 minutes ago, Pink said:

Well, isn't that special? 

I guess you might have two personalities, since you dislike the abuse cause by some bishops in a bishop's interview, but you like a man that sexually assaults women? 

[Danzo]

8 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Such as being honest in all our doings? Who invented that one?

You think they are not being honest? 

The church leaders have spoken to the issue. Why don't you accept their decision?

Do you sustain the prophet?  I think that is also a temple recommend question. 

 

[Benjamin McGuire]

34 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

I'll not acquiesce to your specious accusation of racism. Such a tawdry tactic on your part!

Then don't write about people "picking cotton". It is offensive to me.

35 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Not everyone agrees that illegal immigrants have a positive effect on the economy. 

Using false SSNs? That is also illegal activity.

Allow everyone to come in????

Yeah - you seem to think, for some reason, that you have the market here on rationality, ethics and morality. But, I think that others are going to disagree with you. When you are ready to have the adult conversation, lets do it.

[Danzo]

9 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

You are not committing a crime unless you get caught?

In the united states, you are not a criminal unless you have been convicted of a crime.  Part of that whole pesky due process thing. 

[Rain]

46 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Indeed. Honest question....I don't know how a person clear violating the law can be honest in all things. Could you please explain?

So was this actually an honest question?  I took some time to answer you, though I recognize I'm not the greatest with my writing skills sometimes, and it feels like you didn't really want to listen for my answer when you just quickly copied and pasted your poem.  If it was a real question could you please answer my real question as to what the differences are?

 

[Bernard Gui]

36 minutes ago, Danzo said:

 

They try.  Unfortunately for most of these people it isn't legal to get legal.  Part of the messed up immigration law we have in the US. Its pretty strange.

But I would be careful not to put your own private worthiness requirements on members of the church.

We all fall short of the law and we all need repentance.  None of us are going to saved by our own righteousness.  

 

It's not legal to get legal because they jumped the gate rather than got in line. Immigration laws are strict for very good reasons.

Asking about honesty is not my own private worthiness requirement, nor do I impose it on the Church. If one is in violation of a law that could result in fines, imprisonment, or deportation, how is that honest? It's a temple recommend and baptism query. Sincere question.

Well, of course we aren't. Who says we are?

[Danzo]

7 minutes ago, Bernard Gui said:

Asking about honesty is not my own private worthiness requirement, nor do I impose it on the Church. If one is in violation of a law that could result in fines, imprisonment, or deportation, how is that honest? It's a temple recommend and baptism query. Sincere question.

 

These people tell their priesthood leaders they are here illegally.  They don't hide it. 

If they disclose to their church leader and the church leaders accept their answers, there is no dishonesty.  

When I married my wife, she was here illegally.   She was interviews by her bishop, and her stake president.  They both knew she was illegal.  She was called on a mission by a prophet who was informed she was illegal.  She served a faithful mission.  She served in leadership callings.  

Who are you to say she wasn't worthy?

Why can't you accept our prophets and apostles?

Why do you have a problem with the church leaders?

Why must you set yourself up as Judge of who is worthy and who isn't worthy for baptism and temple covenants.  There are already people called to do that.

Edited February 12, 2025 by Danzo

[Bernard Gui]

4 minutes ago, Rain said:

So was this actually an honest question?  I took some time to answer you, though I recognize I'm not the greatest with my writing skills sometimes, and it feels like you didn't really want to listen for my answer when you just quickly copied and pasted your poem.  If it was a real question could you please answer my real question as to what the differences are?

 

Yes, it is an honest question. The song from "King and I" reflects my puzzlement at all that is going around me, especially here on this board. I thought it could be a way to inject a tiny bit of humor into a serious conversation. I apologize that it offended you.

Quote

've often heard that question is the hardest for people to answer because there are just so many times in our lives where we end up not being honest. Technically, anyone speaking about politics on this board should answer "no" to the honesty question.  So I would have to ask you how can a person clearly violating board rules be honest in all things?

Note, I am not judging anyone on this. I'm not saying one is better than the other.  I just don't see how one can be honest according to reccomend interviews when violating rules they said they would and not honest when violating laws of a country. 

I don't think speaking about politics on this board and thus violating the rules is the same with lying about residing in a country illegally when asked if you deal honestly, but I have tried to keep the discussion within a gospel setting. And with many topics like this it is impossible for them not to involve politics, and it does impact the Church. I don' know how that can be avoided. I appreciate your good heart.

[Tacenda]

1 minute ago, Pink said:

Trump is very useful, Mormon bishops aren't 

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/list-trumps-accusers-allegations-sexual-misconduct/story?id=51956410

A list of 18 women accusing trump of abuse. The Miss Utah one, hits home since I live in Utah.

I remember Trump's first wife saying he raped her and pulled her hair out, after he had hair replacement that went wrong and blamed her for giving him the reference of where to get this done. It's in the divorce papers. She mentioned it in public and had to step back because of repercussions from trump. She's now buried in a lonely plot at a golf course I believe Trump owns, not sure. But bad still the same.

Trump monetarily screwed many workers on his buildings. He'll use the excuse that they didn't do a job properly. Or he sues people constantly so they're afraid of him. The names he'll call people, even those that now support him, forgot that Trump said horrendous things to their faces or behind their backs. He was taught by a mentor long ago, to lie to get what you want. That if you tell a lie over and over it will become true. And no one does it better. This is the mentor:  https://www.bbc.com/culture/article/20240517-roy-cohn-the-mysterious-us-lawyer-who-helped-donald-trump-rise-to-power