War in Israel, fall of Syria, Russia and Iran etc.

[JVW]

I know Pyreaux said earlier in this thread that the LDS church doesn't have a lot of new information on Armageddon or the Second Coming, but I disagree with that. I think the church has a ton of really interesting commentary on it, and I'm pretty sure that if I said that the church believes that the state of Israel being established in 1948 was a fulfillment of Biblical prophesy that I wouldn't be misrepresenting the church's position. I'm also reasonably sure that the church believes that the 2 witnesses that will protect Jerusalem from the giant army will be priesthood holders (probably Apostles?).

There's also the whole thing about the New Jerusalem being built, the city of Enoch descending from heaven, and other additional details that have been discussed by previous church authorities and many of those details are part of canonized text.

A lot of discussion of the second coming and the events preceding it have come from previous church presidents. It's odd to me that words from former church presidents and apostles are regarded more as church history than as "prophetic" words equal to the Biblical text. There's this cultural weight in the church that once a prophet dies his words aren't that important anymore and the best words to read are whatever was given in the most recent conference address. In 1841 Orson Hyde dedicated the Holy Land for the gathering of the Jews and the children of Abraham. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/history/topics/dedication-of-the-holy-land?lang=eng#p1. And this act was done under Joseph's purview with an intention to aid God in bringing about the Second Coming. It's probably not unreasonable to suggest that every LDS apostle from the time of Joseph has had something novel to say about the Second Coming, but I'm not a Second Coming church history buff so I can't say for sure.

As a result of this there is a ton of material that the LDS have that other churches don't and I think it would be swell if this thread, or another, was loaded up with all sorts of research articles, scholarly and historical commentary, etc. from people that know more about it than I do.

I have read this article on the church's website about the battle of Armageddon, it's from the Old Testament Institute Manual that may or may not be regarded as trustworthy anymore due to the aforementioned cultural baggage the church carries. https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/old-testament-student-manual-kings-malachi/enrichment-i?lang=eng#title1

I know there are also individual members that have come up with various ideas about the Second Coming, but some of their ideas stem from weird verses (I'm looking at you D&C 133:23-27 https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/scriptures/dc-testament/dc/133?lang=eng). I'm referring here to people like the Last Days Timeline person, Michael Rush, Jodi Stoddard, Gospel Lessons YT, etc. In a thread that's main point is to talk about 2nd coming interpretations from the LDS perspective (or lack thereof) I figure it's worth mentioning them.

I do think it's odd how subdued the LDS church is considering how close to the second coming it preaches we are. (I mean, "latter-day" is part of the name of the church.) And I do feel like there is a distinct difference between Biblical prophets and apostles and modern ones. Not only that, but there is a difference between pre-1890 prophets/apostles and current ones. It's like all of the fun got sucked out of the church. However, with that being said, looking at President Nelson's most recent conference address, here are a few quotes from it https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/general-conference/2024/10/57nelson?lang=eng:

Quote

The Lord Jesus Christ Will Come Again

Now is the time for you and for me to prepare for the Second Coming of our Lord and Savior, Jesus the Christ.

These blessings also help to prepare a people who will help prepare the world for the Second Coming of the Lord!

Jesus Christ will govern from both old Jerusalem and the New Jerusalem “built upon the American continent.” From these two centers, He will direct the affairs of His Church.

Brothers and sisters, now is the time for you and for me to prepare for the Second Coming of our Lord and Savior, Jesus the Christ.

My dear brothers and sisters, in a coming day, Jesus Christ will return to the earth as the millennial Messiah. I call upon you ... to prepare the world for the Second Coming of the Lord.

The best is yet to come, my dear brothers and sisters, because the Savior is coming again!

I bear my solemn witness that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. I am His disciple. I am honored to be His servant. At His Second Coming, “the glory of the Lord shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together.” That day will be filled with joy for the righteous!

Through the power of the sacred priesthood keys I hold, I declare this truth to you and to all the world! In the name of Jesus Christ, amen.

Lastly, I do agree with Pyreaux in that the messaging from the church about the Second Coming is mostly positive and hopeful, avoiding the sensationalism around the topic. And as a person who naturally has very weak levels of hope I appreciate their focus on hope.

[Robert F. Smith]

On 12/18/2024 at 1:54 PM, Stargazer said:

........................

I suppose you wish to express deep horror or condemnation upon men caught up in the war on the wrong side? 

Not nice to assume the negative.

You may want to read Robert C. Freeman & Dennis A. Wright, Saints at War: Experiences of Latter-day Saints in World War II (American Fork: Covenant Communications, 2001).  This book provides numerous individual stories, including those of Latter-day Saints who served in the German Army -- including one who was in the Hitler Youth, and later became a member of the first quorum of Seventy (Elder F. Enzio Busche).

By the end of WW II, around 5,000 Latter-day Saint members of both Allied and Axis forces had died.  Around 550 German Latter-day Saints had died by War's end, most of them in the armed forces.

[blackstrap]

When the Lord told Adam and Eve not to eat of the tree of knowledge or " in the day thou eatest thereof ye shall surely die " (paraphrasing ) did He lie ? Well, Adam lived less than 1000 years which is a day to God , so not really a lie. ( yes , Adam did suffer a spiritual death quickly after he ate )  Modern scripture says the Lord is coming " soon " . In the early days of the church the members were excited and ready for the return ,hoping that it would happen in their lifetime. God could actually say to the prophet that He will return  ' tomorrow ' and not show up for 800 more of our years. His ' soon ' is not necessarily our ' soon ' . 

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, blackstrap said:

When the Lord told Adam and Eve not to eat of the tree of knowledge or " in the day thou eatest thereof ye shall surely die " (paraphrasing ) did He lie ? Well, Adam lived less than 1000 years which is a day to God , so not really a lie. ( yes , Adam did suffer a spiritual death quickly after he ate )  Modern scripture says the Lord is coming " soon " . In the early days of the church the members were excited and ready for the return ,hoping that it would happen in their lifetime. God could actually say to the prophet that He will return  ' tomorrow ' and not show up for 800 more of our years. His ' soon ' is not necessarily our ' soon ' . 

It seems he is going to delay his coming until the end of the world.

Typical.

😉

[manol]

23 hours ago, blackstrap said:

His ' soon ' is not necessarily our ' soon ' . 

And/or... maybe our expectations about "the Second Coming of Christ" are every bit as mistaken as people's expectations about the Coming of the Messiah (aka the First Coming of Christ) turned out to be. 

Edited January 20 by manol

[Stargazer]

On 1/19/2025 at 5:19 AM, Robert F. Smith said:

Not nice to assume the negative.

I was wondering if the person I was responding to had such feelings. As a US Army veteran (never tested under fire, thank God) I certainly don't have such an attitude.

On 1/19/2025 at 5:19 AM, Robert F. Smith said:

You may want to read Robert C. Freeman & Dennis A. Wright, Saints at War: Experiences of Latter-day Saints in World War II (American Fork: Covenant Communications, 2001).  This book provides numerous individual stories, including those of Latter-day Saints who served in the German Army -- including one who was in the Hitler Youth, and later became a member of the first quorum of Seventy (Elder F. Enzio Busche).

I haven't seen that book. I do have Saints at War: Inspiring Stories of Courage and Valor and Saints of Valor: Mormon Medal of Honor Recipients.

On 1/19/2025 at 5:19 AM, Robert F. Smith said:

By the end of WW II, around 5,000 Latter-day Saint members of both Allied and Axis forces had died.  Around 550 German Latter-day Saints had died by War's end, most of them in the armed forces.

It happened at least once that one LDS soldier killed another. From the first book above there is this story:

"Gerald Mervin Bolton - World War II, Europe, Army - Gerald was with another GI who was a Latter-day Saint. This was unusual; there were very few men he had found in his regiment that were Mormons. The two men were behind some rubble and could see a German soldier creeping toward them from a path below with his rifle ready. Gerald’s companion fired and killed the German. They went down to search him and found he had papers on him that identified him as a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Gerald’s buddy sat and cried. He was so devastated because he had killed another Mormon. He was so overcome that he couldn’t stop crying, and Gerald feared that he would have a mental breakdown and requested that he be sent back of the line for a few days rest. A couple of nights later he had a dream. He told Gerald that it was so real he wasn’t sure if it was a dream or if the man was actually there. The German soldier came to him and said “Please don’t mourn for me. You’ve done me a favor, for now I am out of the war and have found happiness as you will never know on earth. I thank you, and am sorry that you still have to endure the hell I have been so fortunate to leave.” From that night on the GI was alright and his faith had been strengthened."