Emma and Destruction

[thatjimguy]

D&C 132

Looking for church references that talk more about the idea of Emma's destruction and why that word was used. Any help?

[CV75]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_storms_named_Emma

[Pyreaux]

The word "destroyed" in verse 41 is applied those who violate their covenants, means they will be separated from God. Though I don't suppose it is beyond repentance to become not destroyed again.

Much of the context of these verses is only known to Emma, Joseph Smith, and the Lord. However, this seems to be about her own marriage, about her remaining faithful, etc. But Emma was faithful, so I don't think we'll ever know what would have happened. 132 is a late version. 

[manol]

20 minutes ago, Pyreaux said:

132 is a late version. 

Could you elaborate?  There were "earlier versions"??

[Pyreaux]

1 hour ago, manol said:

Could you elaborate?  There were "earlier versions"??

If I recall correctly, Emma tore up the original polygamy revelation, what we have is a later version to William Clayton, and much later added to the D&C after Joseph's death to officially canonize polygamy. Thus, the RLDS say, who don't believe 132 is real, assert if 132 was real, it should have been recorded by Joseph’s personal secretary, James Whitehead, but it wasn't. They said this, at the time James Whitehead was with the RLDS. However, Whitehead recounts that Emma had participated in ceremonies where other women covenanted with Joseph Smith on several occasions that Whitehead had witnessed... So, some revelation was given, 132 seems mostly legit, maybe not 100%, maybe a % is abridged, rewritten or even infused with pro-polygamy propaganda. It seems the contents of 132 may have ordinally come from 2 different unpublished revelations, one about marriage and one about polygamy, rewritten/fused together.

Ah, here we go; 

William Clayton in 1871: “I did write the revelation on celestial marriage given through the Prophet Joseph Smith, on the 12th of July, 1843. “When the revelation was written there was no one present except the Prophet Joseph, his brother Hyrum and myself. It was written in the small office upstairs in the rear of the brick store which stood on the banks of the Mississippi river. It took some three hours to write it. Joseph dictated sentence by sentence, and I wrote it as he dictated. After the whole was written Joseph requested me to read it slowly and carefully, which I did, and he then pronounced it correct… The original was destroyed by Emma Smith.” (Joseph F. Smith, Jr., Blood Atonement and the Origin of Plural Marriage, p. 77.)

[T-Shirt]

6 hours ago, Pyreaux said:

If I recall correctly, Emma tore up the original polygamy revelation, what we have is a later version to William Clayton, and much later added to the D&C after Joseph's death to officially canonize polygamy. Thus, the RLDS say, who don't believe 132 is real, assert if 132 was real, it should have been recorded by Joseph’s personal secretary, James Whitehead, but it wasn't. They said this, at the time James Whitehead was with the RLDS. However, Whitehead recounts that Emma had participated in ceremonies where other women covenanted with Joseph Smith on several occasions that Whitehead had witnessed... So, some revelation was given, 132 seems mostly legit, maybe not 100%, maybe a % is abridged, rewritten or even infused with pro-polygamy propaganda. It seems the contents of 132 may have ordinally come from 2 different unpublished revelations, one about marriage and one about polygamy, rewritten/fused together.

Ah, here we go; 

William Clayton in 1871: “I did write the revelation on celestial marriage given through the Prophet Joseph Smith, on the 12th of July, 1843. “When the revelation was written there was no one present except the Prophet Joseph, his brother Hyrum and myself. It was written in the small office upstairs in the rear of the brick store which stood on the banks of the Mississippi river. It took some three hours to write it. Joseph dictated sentence by sentence, and I wrote it as he dictated. After the whole was written Joseph requested me to read it slowly and carefully, which I did, and he then pronounced it correct… The original was destroyed by Emma Smith.” (Joseph F. Smith, Jr., Blood Atonement and the Origin of Plural Marriage, p. 77.)

Joseph Kingsbury made a copy of the revelation the same evening or the next day with Joseph Smith's permission. William Clayton later said,  “the copy made by Joseph C. Kingsbury is a true and correct copy of the original in every respect.” The copy was made several days before the original was destroyed. The evidence suggests that section 132, as we have it today, is the same as the original.

Edited August 16, 2024 by T-Shirt

[webbles]

8 hours ago, Pyreaux said:

If I recall correctly, Emma tore up the original polygamy revelation, what we have is a later version to William Clayton, and much later added to the D&C after Joseph's death to officially canonize polygamy. Thus, the RLDS say, who don't believe 132 is real, assert if 132 was real, it should have been recorded by Joseph’s personal secretary, James Whitehead, but it wasn't. They said this, at the time James Whitehead was with the RLDS. However, Whitehead recounts that Emma had participated in ceremonies where other women covenanted with Joseph Smith on several occasions that Whitehead had witnessed... So, some revelation was given, 132 seems mostly legit, maybe not 100%, maybe a % is abridged, rewritten or even infused with pro-polygamy propaganda. It seems the contents of 132 may have ordinally come from 2 different unpublished revelations, one about marriage and one about polygamy, rewritten/fused together.

Ah, here we go; 

William Clayton in 1871: “I did write the revelation on celestial marriage given through the Prophet Joseph Smith, on the 12th of July, 1843. “When the revelation was written there was no one present except the Prophet Joseph, his brother Hyrum and myself. It was written in the small office upstairs in the rear of the brick store which stood on the banks of the Mississippi river. It took some three hours to write it. Joseph dictated sentence by sentence, and I wrote it as he dictated. After the whole was written Joseph requested me to read it slowly and carefully, which I did, and he then pronounced it correct… The original was destroyed by Emma Smith.” (Joseph F. Smith, Jr., Blood Atonement and the Origin of Plural Marriage, p. 77.)

https://mormonpolygamydocuments.org/provenance-dc-132-documented/ goes over the provenance of section 132.  T-Shirt is right that Joseph Kingsbury made a copy.  He made this copy for Newel Whitney, who is his father-in-law.  Whitney kept this till Winter Quarters and then gave it to Brigham Young.  Whitney then had his son (Horace Whitney) make another copy of it while at Winter Quarters.  Additionally, Willard Richards made a copy sometime before Winter Quarters.  We have all 3 of those copies and they are all basically the same as D&C 132.  So, the version of D&C 132 that we have has been that way since at least the late Nauvoo period.

Also, I've always been confused on the assertion that James Whitehead was Joseph's personal secretary.  The Joseph Smith papers doesn't mention that - https://www.josephsmithpapers.org/person/james-whitehead.  I tried to find any evidence that he might be the personal secretary but the only evidence for it is his own testimony in the Temple Lot case.  I don't think he was the personal secretary.  Just one of the many secretaries that Joseph had.

[Bernard Gui]

On 8/15/2024 at 2:33 PM, thatjimguy said:

D&C 132

Looking for church references that talk more about the idea of Emma's destruction and why that word was used. Any help?

This is not without scriptural precedent…

Quote

Alma 36:

6 For I went about with the sons of Mosiah, seeking to destroy the church of God; but behold, God sent his holy angel to stop us by the way.

7 And behold, he spake unto us, as it were the voice of thunder, and the whole earth did tremble beneath our feet; and we all fell to the earth, for the fear of the Lord came upon us.

8 But behold, the voice said unto me: Arise. And I arose and stood up, and beheld the angel.

9 And he said unto me: If thou wilt of thyself be destroyed,** seek no more to destroy the church of God.

10 And it came to pass that I fell to the earth; and it was for the space of three days and three nights that I could not open my mouth, neither had I the use of my limbs.

11 And the angel spake more things unto me, which were heard by my brethren, but I did not hear them; for when I heard the words—If thou wilt be destroyed of thyself, seek no more to destroy the church of God—I was struck with such great fear and amazement lest perhaps I should be destroyed, that I fell to the earth and I did hear no more.

**Mosiah 27:16 …And now I say unto thee, Alma, go thy way, and seek to destroy the church no more, that their prayers may be answered, and this even if thou wilt of thyself be cast off.

Quote

1 Nephi 17:53 And it came to pass that the Lord said unto me: Stretch forth thine hand again unto thy brethren, and they shall not wither before thee, but I will shock them, saith the Lord, and this will I do, that they may know that I am the Lord their God.

54 And it came to pass that I stretched forth my hand unto my brethren, and they did not wither before me; but the Lord did shake them, even according to the word which he had spoken.

55 And now, they said: We know of a surety that the Lord is with thee, for we know that it is the power of the Lord that has shaken us.

Quote

Numbers 12:1 And Miriam and Aaron spake against Moses because of the Ethiopian woman whom he had married: for he had married an Ethiopian woman.

2 And they said, Hath the Lord indeed spoken only by Moses? hath he not spoken also by us? And the Lord heard it.

3 (Now the man Moses was very meek, above all the men which were upon the face of the earth.)

4 And the Lord spake suddenly unto Moses, and unto Aaron, and unto Miriam, Come out ye three unto the tabernacle of the congregation. And they three came out.

5 And the Lord came down in the pillar of the cloud, and stood in the door of the tabernacle, and called Aaron and Miriam: and they both came forth.

6 And he said, Hear now my words: If there be a prophet among you, I the Lord will make myself known unto him in a vision, and will speak unto him in a dream.

7 My servant Moses is not so, who is faithful in all mine house.

8 With him will I speak mouth to mouth, even apparently, and not in dark speeches; and the similitude of the Lord shall he behold: wherefore then were ye not afraid to speak against my servant Moses?

9 And the anger of the Lord was kindled against them; and he departed.

10 And the cloud departed from off the tabernacle; and, behold, Miriam became leprous, white as snow: and Aaron looked upon Miriam, and, behold, she was leprous.

Quote

 

Ananias and Sapphira lying to Peter (to God)

Acts 15: 11 And great fear came upon all the church, and upon as many as heard these things.

 

Also, see my signature. 

[Dario_M]

I'm curious what Emma did then to destroy her commitments to God. 

Edited August 17, 2024 by Dario_M

[Calm]

49 minutes ago, Dario_M said:

I'm curious what Emma did then to destroy her commitments to God. 

Do you mean what she could have done?  Because it appears she was not destroyed even if she separated from the Church after Joseph’s death (though I see it as more separation from Brigham and the other apostles who stayed with Brigham and not the Church as I believe it was the conflict between them that was the problem).

Quote

52 And let mine handmaid, Emma Smith, receive all those that have been given unto my servant Joseph, and who are virtuous and pure before me; and those who are not pure, and have said they were pure, shall be destroyed, saith the Lord God.

53 For I am the Lord thy God, and ye shall obey my voice; and I give unto my servant Joseph that he shall be made ruler over many things; for he hath been faithful over a few things, and from henceforth I will strengthen him.

54 And I command mine handmaid, Emma Smith, to abide and cleaveunto my servant Joseph, and to none else. But if she will not abide this commandment she shall be destroyed, saith the Lord; for I am the Lord thy God, and will destroy her if she abide not in my law.

She certainly cleaved (stayed faithful and loving) unto Joseph while he was alive and witnessed he was a true prophet after his death in spite of having a very difficult life.