‘Heretic’ brings back scary, suffocating memories of my LDS mission (sltrib article)

[mbh26]

It sounds weird to me that a sister would be this torn about the mission.  Sisters weren't pressured to go in my day.  I wonder why she chose to go in the first place.  

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, mbh26 said:

It amazes me how some missionaries are happy all the time.  I'm not sure I want to be happy if it means straining to smile to spare anyone else noticing the fact that I may be sleep deprived, sick, or overworked.  I think what I really wanted was to enter into the Lird's rest, paradise if you will, where everything isn't so difficult.  

Then leaders tell you that this isn’t just a test but the kind of life we are supposed to lead is a kind of extension of what heavenly life is. Some find that satisfying. It leaves me wondering if I want heaven at all.

[morgan.deane]

On 7/12/2024 at 12:07 PM, Analytics said:

According to @smac97, Cathleen Mann, PhD is a qualified expert on cults who uses the word “cult” in a clinical way and was an expert witness in 15 states on this topic. 

Dr. Mann created something called the “MIND” model of cults to help explain cults and undue influence to lay audiences. The model says cults exert undue influence through Manipulation, Indoctrination, Negation, and Deception. You can read more about the model from the following site:

https://cultscults.com/the-mind-model-of-cult-dynamics/

By coincidence, there was an opinion piece in today’s Salt Lake Tribune entitled, "Opinion: ‘Heretic’ brings back scary, suffocating memories of my LDS mission: To me, the terrifying ordeal in the movie’s maze represents the institutional authority that missionaries, and especially female missionaries, are beholden to."

This might be a good case study into whether or not Manipulation, Indoctrination, Negation, and Deception take place in the missionary experience.

That’s interesting. I always imagined that a Temple Square mission had to be the cushiest mission in the Church, no one where you had “suffocating feelings” and “locked in the house."

I think this is pretty common. 

Indoctrination? 

Manipulation?

Manipulation?

Yep.

Thoughts?

A few thoughts: 

There is a term in the military for a wound bad enough to get you sent home but not so bad to permanently disfigure or hurt you. The "million dollar wound" was the holy grail for those stuck on deployment. One of my brothers in arms got a tendon in his hand sliced. It sounded pretty bad but after an emergency surgery in Germany and recovery back home the deployment for the unit was over. He's not going to be a concert pianist or anything with the missing tendon but otherwise he's fine. As Forrest Gump would say, he didn't get any money from it. 

More substantively, I'm kind of annoyed at how many people can have opinions about a movie based on the trailer. I once saw someone on a podcast talk for 45 minutes about the trailer to Terminator Genesis. Lets actually see it first before we start building an sophisticated argument about an evocative trailer.

Finally, the author makes a methodological mistake in stating a list and then finding things that fit with each bullet point on the list. If you fudge the details, and this methodology practically guarantees that you do, a person can find just about anything compares to just about anything else. I didn't see any discussion of the quality of those comparisons. There wasn't an consideration of alternate explanations such as poor leadership on her mission, untreated mental illness, or exaggeration on her part.

So poor methodology that forces comparisons building upon, literally, a few seconds of movie preview doesn't sound like a strong argument. 

[mbh26]

3 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Then leaders tell you that this isn’t just a test but the kind of life we are supposed to lead is a kind of extension of what heavenly life is. Some find that satisfying. It leaves me wondering if I want heaven at all.

Perhaps some missionaries are genuinely happy and not acting happy out of duty and obligation.  I could see it possible if Christ gave me a new self and I was strong enough to comfortably complete Navy seal training without breaking a sweat.  

But for now Nehor a simple faith that doing what the Lord says to do will ultimately bring me happiness and rest is the best I can do.  I've found peace again by going back and reaffirming my core beliefs even if I don't yet know the meaning of all things.  The Lord can.make all things work together for our good.  

[Calm]

2 hours ago, mbh26 said:

Perhaps some missionaries are genuinely happy and not acting happy out of duty and obligation.  I could see it possible if Christ gave me a new self and I was strong enough to comfortably complete Navy seal training without breaking a sweat.  

I was thinking with perfect bodies and minds as supposedly will happen in the next life as well as not having to wonder if what one is teaching is true because you have been shown the reality and are an example of such, missionary work would be quite different.

First time I have heard perfection being equated to completing seal training without a sweat, but it seems a possibility, so why not, lol?

I like talking to people, but hate small talk.  I can see talking religion all the time as quite fun and fulfilling.  Missionary work wouldn’t be bad without my health and emotional issues.  Though I imagine missionary work will be mostly about demonstrating the blessings of God’s love and helping people to let go of baggage….more like therapy…so again, something I could get into (my degree was clinical psychology and talking about how people think and experience life is as fulfilling as talking religion for me).

Edited July 29, 2024 by Calm

[mbh26]

10 hours ago, Calm said:

I was thinking with perfect bodies and minds as supposedly will happen in the next life as well as not having to wonder if what one is teaching is true because you have been shown the reality and are an example of such, missionary work would be quite different.

First time I have heard perfection being equated to completing seal training without a sweat, but it seems a possibility, so why not, lol?

I like talking to people, but hate small talk.  I can see talking religion all the time as quite fun and fulfilling.  Missionary work wouldn’t be bad without my health and emotional issues.  Though I imagine missionary work will be mostly about demonstrating the blessings of God’s love and helping people to let go of baggage….more like therapy…so again, something I could get into (my degree was clinical psychology and talking about how people think and experience life is as fulfilling as talking religion for me).

I wonder what heaven would be like.  I know the gospel can be demanding, such as when Jesus said, come follow me and let the dead bury the dead.  But right now I have a hard time believing that there will be absolutely no room for hobbies or personal interests ever if one is to indeed become like God.  The fact that God has any time at all for each child must mean that there are no time nor space limitations in the next world.  So for me, spirit paradise should present no scheduling conflict with playing in the 634th level of the spirit paradise basketball tournament and visiting some families we're working with in the spirit prison.

[Tacenda]

A friend posted this on FB from the church and she mentioned the movie "Heretic" and now another Hulu show with members of the church which happens to turn my stomach called, "The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives". 🤢

Here's her post:

Regarding the new horror movie, "Heretic" (featuring female LDS missionaries), and the ridiculous new series, "Secret Lives of Mormon Wives" (among others)...

When Entertainment Media Distorts Faith:

Official Church Statement

"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, like other prominent global faith communities, often finds itself the focus of the attention of the entertainment industry.

Some portrayals are fair and accurate, but others resort to stereotypes or gross misrepresentations that are in poor taste and have real-life consequences for people of faith.

While this is not new, a number of recent productions depict lifestyles and practices blatantly inconsistent with the teachings of the Church.

Others irresponsibly mischaracterize the safety and conduct of our volunteer missionaries.

We understand the fascination some in the media have with the Church, but regret that portrayals often rely on sensationalism and inaccuracies that do not fairly and fully reflect the lives of our Church members or the sacred beliefs that they hold dear.

Millions of Church members around the world are deeply dedicated to family, fidelity, service and the gospel of Jesus Christ.

We invite all to consult reliable sources of information and listen to the voices and authentic experiences of individuals and families who find great joy and satisfaction in living these principles.

The true story of our faith is best seen in the countless lives of those who strive daily to follow our Savior Jesus Christ."

[bluebell]

3 hours ago, Tacenda said:

A friend posted this on FB from the church and she mentioned the movie "Heretic" and now another Hulu show with members of the church which happens to turn my stomach called, "The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives". 🤢

Here's her post:

Regarding the new horror movie, "Heretic" (featuring female LDS missionaries), and the ridiculous new series, "Secret Lives of Mormon Wives" (among others)...

When Entertainment Media Distorts Faith:

Official Church Statement

"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, like other prominent global faith communities, often finds itself the focus of the attention of the entertainment industry.

Some portrayals are fair and accurate, but others resort to stereotypes or gross misrepresentations that are in poor taste and have real-life consequences for people of faith.

While this is not new, a number of recent productions depict lifestyles and practices blatantly inconsistent with the teachings of the Church.

Others irresponsibly mischaracterize the safety and conduct of our volunteer missionaries.

We understand the fascination some in the media have with the Church, but regret that portrayals often rely on sensationalism and inaccuracies that do not fairly and fully reflect the lives of our Church members or the sacred beliefs that they hold dear.

Millions of Church members around the world are deeply dedicated to family, fidelity, service and the gospel of Jesus Christ.

We invite all to consult reliable sources of information and listen to the voices and authentic experiences of individuals and families who find great joy and satisfaction in living these principles.

The true story of our faith is best seen in the countless lives of those who strive daily to follow our Savior Jesus Christ."

I think Heretic looks dumb but it's a horror movie so I'm not too worried about it's portrayal of members.  The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives makes me angry when I think about it so I don't.  I can't do anything about it, and making too much of a deal will jut backfire.

I love how the news release specifically brought up fidelity though.  At least one of those "mormon" women is known for her infidelity in her marriage, and some of the others might be as well, I don't follow them so don't know what each one is famous for.