Place in the Church for Singles

[MustardSeed]

I can relate to these sentiments.  I’m not the ideal poster child for the church.  I used to be- 

platitudes suck. 

[SeekingUnderstanding]

10 hours ago, Stargazer said:

his

Her. Just fyi. 

[mfbukowski]

22 hours ago, The Nehor said:

It means that those who have the things you want tell you not to worry about not having them since in the next life it will all be fixed. Oh, and also the things you want come with their own problems so at least you dodged those problems. It is basically the equivalent of wealthy people pointing out to the impoverished about all the problems being wealthy brings that the impoverished are fortunate enough to have avoided.

Wait, so it doesn’t matter because God will fix it in the next life? Or singles are missing out on a vital learning experience?

These are incredibly depressing. There is a reason most people don’t like to go to them.

Tell them that the back of the bus isn’t that bad.

I don't know what you are talking about.

You took it all backwards.   If it made you depressed to think that meeting new people is "depressing" - I would just say that we disagree.  Have a happy life- whatever turns you on.

[mfbukowski]

On 6/26/2024 at 12:14 PM, Calm said:

Added:  I have gone back and reread your post. Maybe you are saying something quite different, more agreeing with Morgan’s criticism than not…as in they shouldn’t be told to be happy at the back of the bus because it’s wasting their earthly time because they need the marriage experience?

Not sure if that is much better from the single POV.

 Bingo.

It's not wasting any time, since eternity is timeless.   Yes of course, God in his brilliance has given them assurance that they are NOT "wasting time"- they are simply experiencing life without a permanent spouse- at least on this side.

And yes not everyone has an earth life  of riches and perfect painless health either, because God does not limit us- stuff just happens. 

I suppose some will still distort what I am saying here- so be it.

It's a shame that some would see their lives as "second class" , but it is even a bigger shame that they would blame that attitude on someone else, as we have seen on this thread.

Thank  God that Jesus lives and can take away all those feelings of negativity if we only let him.

[morgan.deane]

1 hour ago, mfbukowski said:

 Bingo.

It's not wasting any time, since eternity is timeless.   Yes of course, God in his brilliance has given them assurance that they are NOT "wasting time"- they are simply experiencing life without a permanent spouse- at least on this side.

And yes not everyone has an earth life  of riches and perfect painless health either, because God does not limit us- stuff just happens. 

I suppose some will still distort what I am saying here- so be it.

It's a shame that some would see their lives as "second class" , but it is even a bigger shame that they would blame that attitude on someone else, as we have seen on this thread.

Thank  God that Jesus lives and can take away all those feelings of negativity if we only let him.

This is some "choosing to be offended" nonsense. Maybe some people are actually offensive. Maybe some situations are really awful and make you feel marginalized. Like someone with a history of racial insensitivity, talking from first class, telling the lepers in the back of the bus to stop worrying about their position and enjoy the ride. If only I was more positive like the married person in first class talking down to me then I could be blessed and happy.

I remember it was 20 years ago that I first read Elder Holland's talk about the high priest of good things to come. After a few decades the happy talk about the blessings to come start to lose their luster, especially when I'm not allowed to feel the loneliness, despair, frustration over the unanswered prayers. Just think celestial, ignore how I feel every moment of every day no matter how hard I try, the million prayers I've often, the thousand attempts I've made to change my position, and just believe the people in first class that obviously don't know and don't care how I feel because they keep trying to convince me that being in second class is actually really awesome and fun. 

Edited June 28, 2024 by morgan.deane

[Rain]

5 hours ago, morgan.deane said:

This is some "choosing to be offended" nonsense. Maybe some people are actually offensive. Maybe some situations are really awful and make you feel marginalized. Like someone with a history of racial insensitivity, talking from first class, telling the lepers in the back of the bus to stop worrying about their position and enjoy the ride. If only I was more positive like the married person in first class talking down to me then I could be blessed and happy.

I remember it was 20 years ago that I first read Elder Holland's talk about the high priest of good things to come. After a few decades the happy talk about the blessings to come start to lose their luster, especially when I'm not allowed to feel the loneliness, despair, frustration over the unanswered prayers. Just think celestial, ignore how I feel every moment of every day no matter how hard I try, the million prayers I've often, the thousand attempts I've made to change my position, and just believe the people in first class that obviously don't know and don't care how I feel because they keep trying to convince me that being in second class is actually really awesome and fun. 

This reminds me of the idea of gratitude. Sometimes you are in a bad circumstance and are struggling with it and then you come across someone else in a worse circumstance and it helps you feel grateful for your own circumstance. Other times you are in a bad circumstance and a friend will tell you about a person in a worse circumstance to make you feel grateful. Different situations! The thing is the first occurs naturally and with the second the friend is uncomfortable about your feelings and doesn't know how to have empathy and mourn with you. 

Sometimes singles will find themselves being ok with being single, but most of the time it is us married friends being uncomfortable with the feelings of our single friends instead of having empathy and mourning with them. 

It is ok to have "negative" feelings! It is a part of life. I've found when I let myself or others have them it can be healing. They may never go away, but having people who mourn with us allows us to deal with the sharpness of those pains. 

As married people we need to stop telling singles to be grateful and just be there for them.

[Malc]

8 hours ago, morgan.deane said:

This is some "choosing to be offended" nonsense. Maybe some people are actually offensive. Maybe some situations are really awful and make you feel marginalized. Like someone with a history of racial insensitivity, talking from first class, telling the lepers in the back of the bus to stop worrying about their position and enjoy the ride. If only I was more positive like the married person in first class talking down to me then I could be blessed and happy.

I remember it was 20 years ago that I first read Elder Holland's talk about the high priest of good things to come. After a few decades the happy talk about the blessings to come start to lose their luster, especially when I'm not allowed to feel the loneliness, despair, frustration over the unanswered prayers. Just think celestial, ignore how I feel every moment of every day no matter how hard I try, the million prayers I've often, the thousand attempts I've made to change my position, and just believe the people in first class that obviously don't know and don't care how I feel because they keep trying to convince me that being in second class is actually really awesome and fun. 

Don't worry, just be happy that you're alive!

Or -

Don't worry; accept that while you may be miserable in this life, you can look forward to your reward in the next life:

• If you're a cis man, you'll have women given to you!
• If you're a cis woman, you, along with several other women, will be given to a man.
• If you're not cis-gendered, a large part of your personality and self-image will be altered to "fix" you, and then either the first or the second point above will apply to you.

What you are living is The Plan of Happiness, after all. 

/s

It makes me think a bit of:

Quote

Of all the preposterous assumptions of humanity over humanity, nothing exceeds most of the criticisms made on the habits of the poor by the well-housed, well- warmed, and well-fed.

― Herman Melville

 

[The Nehor]

4 hours ago, Rain said:

This reminds me of the idea of gratitude. Sometimes you are in a bad circumstance and are struggling with it and then you come across someone else in a worse circumstance and it helps you feel grateful for your own circumstance. Other times you are in a bad circumstance and a friend will tell you about a person in a worse circumstance to make you feel grateful. Different situations! The thing is the first occurs naturally and with the second the friend is uncomfortable about your feelings and doesn't know how to have empathy and mourn with you. 

Sometimes singles will find themselves being ok with being single, but most of the time it is us married friends being uncomfortable with the feelings of our single friends instead of having empathy and mourning with them. 

It is ok to have "negative" feelings! It is a part of life. I've found when I let myself or others have them it can be healing. They may never go away, but having people who mourn with us allows us to deal with the sharpness of those pains. 

As married people we need to stop telling singles to be grateful and just be there for them.

It’s also just a horrible method in general to reassure someone. When someone is depressed or discouraged pointing out that there are people worse off might make them feel bad about feeling bad. That comes back to the ‘smile even if you don’t feel like you should’ rubbish.

It gets even weirder though. When trying to reassure someone that God is good the argument that God has many of his children in an even worse situation than the one you feel hopeless in is not exactly bolstering an argument for God’s goodness.

[mfbukowski]

12 hours ago, morgan.deane said:

This is some "choosing to be offended" nonsense

Yes and so it is from my to your world.

   It's that "dark mirror" but not "face to face" acting up again.

I fear that you presume that I have not been in "your position", and of course you are right, because none of us have ever been in anyone else's world- because we still do not see "face to face".

I did not grow up in the church,  I left Catholicism for my own reasons, seeking "truth".   Philosophy was not the answer, but at least Wittgenstein showed me that it was all "semantics" anyway.

During that time, I "dated" a lot.  I had no siblings, and  I was in California- because that is where my University was- my parents lived on the other side of the country in a very hostile environment weather wise and most of my extended family would have little to do with me because I left the church, despite a thousand years of what being "Polish" meant being Catholic- and still does.    I see parallels there and sympathy for former LDS church members who have left.

I was totally alone for a long time.   I know what it is like to be "single" in a "strange land", totally alone for many years, and man, I was searching.   No dances, no social activities with like-minded people. No family.  Me and philosophy, odd jobs and then starting my own business that required no social interaction beyond professional ones to maintain the business.   Period.   Yes "dating, dating and dating," and broken "relationships".  Drove a cab in college, and you can guess what direction that can take you.

And I hated that.

I am truly sorry if you and others have felt offense from anything I have said.

Toodles!

 

[mfbukowski]

On 6/27/2024 at 11:04 PM, morgan.deane said:

Maybe some situations are really awful and make you feel marginalized. Like someone with a history of racial insensitivity, talking from first class, telling the lepers in the back of the bus to stop worrying about their position and enjoy the ride. If only I was more positive like the married person in first class talking down to me then I could be blessed and happy.

 

"Make you feel marginalized"?   We must learn to be "actors" so that we are not acted upon.  It is not easy, but some people who are born with terrible problems as well also find tremendously difficult.   We never know the pain of others.

"If only I was more positive"... again a surrender to the way we were born.    I am sorry for those who actually feel that way, missing the fact that we are in God's throne with Him and with the invitation to become like Him forever.   Was Jesus "marginalized" just a little maybe? 

Life is tough and then we die. 

But we CAN get the Lord inside of us and then do "all things" to overcome these negative feelings.   News flash!   We all die!!    We can be miserable during our lives or understand that through the atonement, Christ has been there and done it!!!     

The challenge is learning how to create our own worlds - yes we all get our own "worlds" to create- and they are right here, right now, in process, every day of our lives!

I believe and have learned, that with Christ, all things really ARE possible, married, single, crippled in pain, or with psychological mountains to climb.

I remember that song "Alone again- naturally".   In my opinion, though just a silly song, there is much truth to it.   WE ARE all alone in our own worlds, no matter how much we share our world, ultimately we ARE ALWAYS ALONE and facing death alone- UNLESS, with Christ, we have an eternal companion!   He is the one we REALLY need.    We are born alone, we die alone, and we live in a constant state of being alone if we really analyze it!

Divorces happen- which can be worse than if one had remained single without all the mess we need to face in the breakup.   The only one who never will "divorce" us is Jesus Christ!!

Not finding a mate is not the worst thing that can happen- in one sense even with a "forever marriage" every day we must bend our lives to fit with our "Other" and he/she must do the same.  

And no one is at the "front of the bus" with that attitude will soon find he/she is probably in position to get completely RUN OVER by those front wheels, and then gets to look forward to when the back wheels hit.

But with Christ - it is all part of earth life, so we better understand it and- with Him- learn to "overcome the world" which is always there to keep us "alone, naturally".

 

 

Edited July 2, 2024 by mfbukowski

[The Nehor]

On 6/27/2024 at 10:57 PM, mfbukowski said:

Have a happy life- whatever turns you on.

Why are you encouraging me to sin?

[The Nehor]

On 6/27/2024 at 11:17 PM, mfbukowski said:

 Bingo.

It's not wasting any time, since eternity is timeless.   Yes of course, God in his brilliance has given them assurance that they are NOT "wasting time"- they are simply experiencing life without a permanent spouse- at least on this side.

And yes not everyone has an earth life  of riches and perfect painless health either, because God does not limit us- stuff just happens. 

I suppose some will still distort what I am saying here- so be it.

It's a shame that some would see their lives as "second class" , but it is even a bigger shame that they would blame that attitude on someone else, as we have seen on this thread.

Thank  God that Jesus lives and can take away all those feelings of negativity if we only let him.

D&C 131 is a hell of a drug. It is another section that might need an addendum.

The idea that you will get a chance in the next life is a fairly recent notion. Women were extended this grace first. Men got it within my lifetime. I remember the shift as I was single at the time. Before that it was mostly shaming us for all ‘not dating right’ or something. It was never clear to me what they were talking about. In hindsight now there is a certain morbid absurdity that a generation that married when marriage was often an economic necessity for women tutted later generations of men for not just going out and getting married.

The only time I truly lost it listening to a church talk was when an apostle in General Conference decided to take single men of the church to task for not marrying. I had to turn it off and go jogging to calm down.

The irony is that I have virtually no problems dating women (and men) who are outside of the church. It is usually pretty easy. In my wild and sinful days I could even handle multiple relationships at once. I am starting to conclude that I was never the problem.

[mfbukowski]

11 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Why are you encouraging me to sin?

Ask how it turned out for Eve next time you see that sinner.

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, mfbukowski said:

Ask how it turned out for Eve next time you see that sinner.

I really don’t know.

[Malc]

19 hours ago, The Nehor said:

D&C 131 is a hell of a drug. It is another section that might need an addendum.

The idea that you will get a chance in the next life is a fairly recent notion. Women were extended this grace first. Men got it within my lifetime. I remember the shift as I was single at the time. Before that it was mostly shaming us for all ‘not dating right’ or something. It was never clear to me what they were talking about. In hindsight now there is a certain morbid absurdity that a generation that married when marriage was often an economic necessity for women tutted later generations of men for not just going out and getting married.

The only time I truly lost it listening to a church talk was when an apostle in General Conference decided to take single men of the church to task for not marrying. I had to turn it off and go jogging to calm down.

The irony is that I have virtually no problems dating women (and men) who are outside of the church. It is usually pretty easy. In my wild and sinful days I could even handle multiple relationships at once. I am starting to conclude that I was never the problem.

In Montreal, one of the members of my ward - 30s and single - was asked to be chauffeur for a visiting GA. He told this story afterwards:

GA: "Why are you still single in your 30s? You need to get married and make a righteous young sister happy!"

Chauffeur: "I like being single. I date a lot, and make many righteous young sisters happy."

GA: "   "

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, Malc said:

In Montreal, one of the members of my ward - 30s and single - was asked to be chauffeur for a visiting GA. He told this story afterwards:

GA: "Why are you still single in your 30s? You need to get married and make a righteous young sister happy!"

Chauffeur: "I like being single. I date a lot, and make many righteous young sisters happy."

GA: "   "

Perfect wording.