Utah Hate Crimes on the Rise, the Propaganda is working

[smac97]

33 minutes ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

In the mid 1980's, I was pushed up against a wall and forced to recant my Mormon faith at knifepoint.   "I cut mormons.  Are you a mormon?"   That was a crappy day in a middle school in Holladay Utah, one of Salt Lake City's suburbs.  

Nobody had an understanding of "hate crimes" back then.  I recanted my faith, went about my day, and spent the next umpteen years bearing the emotional impacts of lying because I wasn't strong enough to stand up and tell the truth.

I hope you can forgive yourself.  I suspect the Lord has.  A child in middle school who is compelled, literally at knifepoint, to recant his faith cannot be said to have exercised his agency.

Thanks,

-Smac

Edited September 28, 2023 by smac97

[Damien the Leper]

It would seem that the propaganda espoused by the 2025 Project (authored by the glorious Heritage Foundation and its tribe of troglodytes and seemingly agreeable others) is a great place to start with talks of marginalization. The idea that they seem to want to put into existence a minorly, at best, theonomy is concerning. 

Also, there is the ever-present propaganda that anything that somehow makes LGBTQ+ equal will somehow bring about the downfall of civilization. Time to grow up and put our adult pants on.

Edited September 29, 2023 by Damien the Leper

[LoudmouthMormon]

Yay!   I woke up this morning wondering if anything interesting would happen.   And shortly after noon I got called a theonomy-wanting propaganda-espousing troglodyte!   I haven't made an entry in my insult file in almost a decade.   Thanks Mr Leper!

I instantly knew it was true.  No true troglodyte could possibly know what a theonomy was without looking it up, which I had to do.   But once I did, I was no longer a troglodyte, because I knew a big word.   

But the theonomy thing sounds interesting.  Have the mormons heard about that I wonder?

[DonBradley]

I would imagine most of this increased harassment is directed at those who are trans-identified and is probably happening 1) because the number of persons in this category is rising rapidly (-more trans people means more trans people who can be victims of harassment) and 2) there is increasing pushback against trans-identification.

Edited September 30, 2023 by DonBradley

[mfbukowski]

23 hours ago, DonBradley said:

I would imagine most of this increased harassment is directed at those who are trans-identified and is probably happening 1) because the number of persons in this category is rising rapidly (-more trans people means more trans people who can be victims of harassment) and 2) there is increasing pushback against trans-identification.

Good to see ya!

[Dario_M]

I can't believe that Utah has so much crimes rates anyway. The rates must been the lowest of the whole US i do believe so. 

Yeah Salt Lake City maybe a bit, from the tourists who are there. And because it's such a big city. 

Edited October 1, 2023 by Dario_M

[The Nehor]

On 9/28/2023 at 11:31 AM, smac97 said:

I think this is a point worth discussing (though I'm not sure it is altogether correct).  One of my favorite blogs has an ongoing "meme"-like commentary along the lines of "The demand for racism in America vastly exceeds the supply."  This line is used to introduce stories about hoaxes and such where allegations of racism are made and subsequently determined to be false or unlikely.  Some examples:

Thanks,

-Smac

Nasheed Fariq? He is a genuine nutcase. Of course his claims were garbage.

He is a legitimate far-left nutcase to the point some argue he flipped around to the far right. He advocates against any Africans immigrating to the US because it makes it more difficult for African Americans already here for reasons that make little sense. He hates interracial marriage and disparages African American women who marry outside of their race and targets them with slurs originally used against slaves raped by white masters. He is a conspiracy nut, a misogynist, hates the lgbt community, and is blatantly xenophobic.

Who was taking this idiot’s claims seriously? This article about how the generalized Left was fooled by this fabricated rubbish is just not correct. Sure, some people fell for it but just about everyone who knows anything about him immediately called for caution and some even advised that people should assume it was false unless proved otherwise. This article is horribly irresponsible. It is just a far-right rag misrepresenting a far-left nut as if he represents the norm. He does not.

Please vet your articles a little bit better. This is sloppy journalism.

Edited October 1, 2023 by The Nehor

[The Nehor]

On 9/28/2023 at 11:16 AM, smac97 said:

I agree.  It's getting more difficult to characterize lgbtq+ people as "marginalized."

Thanks,

-Smac

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!!!!!!!!!!!

[LoudmouthMormon]

On 10/1/2023 at 3:26 AM, The Nehor said:

...genuine nutcase... ...claims were garbage...  ...He is a conspiracy nut, a misogynist, hates the lgbt community, and is blatantly xenophobic...  ...Who was taking this idiot’s claims seriously?...   ...fabricated rubbish...  ...It is just a far-right rag...

Always interesting to watch cultural winds shift, and see how folks argue.   This bunch of insults came in response to the notion "The demand for racism in America vastly exceeds the supply."

You know one way to know the truth?  Have someone say something that may or may not be true, and the responses you get are a bunch of schoolyard namecalling and insults.  

Mr. Spock wants you to do better.

 

Edited October 2, 2023 by LoudmouthMormon

[The Nehor]

16 minutes ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

Always interesting to watch cultural winds shift, and see how folks argue.   This bunch of insults came in response to the notion "The demand for racism in America vastly exceeds the supply."

You know one way to know the truth?  Have someone say something that may or may not be true, and the responses you get are a bunch of schoolyard namecalling and insults.  

Mr. Spock wants you to do better.

 

What shift? What cultural winds? What are you talking about?

Smac posted that to supposedly show how there are lots of people out there creating fake racism and I agreed that that was what this is but that the perpetrator is part of a wacky (and dangerous) fringe group.

Ad hominem? You are saying that it is unfair to discredit this guy’s false flag operation by pointing out that he is a horrific mix of the worst of the far right and far left ideology? Really? What are you talking about? Are you defending this black supremacist?

[LoudmouthMormon]

1 hour ago, The Nehor said:

Smac posted that to supposedly show how there are lots of people out there creating fake racism and I agreed that that was what this is

Ah, I missed the part where you were agreeing with him.    It looked to me that you were taking the notion he quoted, and responding to it by attacking the person advancing the notion.  An activity which Mr. Spock frowns on as illogical.

Glad to hear that you acknowledge that, at least occasionally, the demand for racism exceeds the supply.

[Calm]

15 minutes ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

the demand for racism exceeds the supply.

I don’t think that it is logical to claim that just because there are incidents of fake racism that means actual racism is less than what is expected out there.  I suspect that there are quite a number of racist comments and actions that are never commented on because the target of such believes it isn’t worth the effort, it’s not going to change anything and might even make it worse for them (I base this on what I have personally heard from minorities or read) or because the racism occurs in a potentially dangerous situation (perhaps at a bar where they are alone and the perpetrator is drunk and with several drunk friends).

[The Nehor]

1 hour ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

Ah, I missed the part where you were agreeing with him.    It looked to me that you were taking the notion he quoted, and responding to it by attacking the person advancing the notion.  An activity which Mr. Spock frowns on as illogical.

Glad to hear that you acknowledge that, at least occasionally, the demand for racism exceeds the supply.

I didn’t acknowledge any such thing. I am saying that the guy who pulled this stupid stunt and the stupid idiot reporting on it were both deceptive dirtbags who should be ignored and not publicized. Also a plague on both their houses.

[LoudmouthMormon]

1 hour ago, Calm said:

1 hour ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

the demand for racism exceeds the supply.

I don’t think that it is logical to claim that just because there are incidents of fake racism that means actual racism is less than what is expected out there.

I'm not sure the phrase has anything to do with incidents of fake racism.  I take the phrase to refer to stuff like:
- The notion that America is best understood as a racist nation, with a racist founding.
- The notion that our institutions, schools, and history books contain and teach institutionalized racism which much be rooted out.
- The notion that all white people (or, as Kendi claims, all people of all races and colors) are racist, and the two types of people are those who understand and fight against it with antiracist efforts, and those who refuse to admit or understand the truth.

In other words, adherents to these notions believe they can find racism everywhere, in everyone, and in every thing.  (They demand to see lots of racism.)  While in reality, things aren't that bad, that's not how America is best understood, institutionalized racism isn't a fraction of the problem claimed, white people/all people are not all racist. (The actual supply of real racism is far less.)

Did anyone else read Kendi's book?  I found it fascinating.  I found I could agree fully with ~49% of what Kendi said.  But that 51% disagreement was a doozie.  It included most of his important claims, and his foundational premises.  (He utterly failed, for example, to convince me that racism and capitalism are "conjoined twins", inseparably tied together.)

Edited October 2, 2023 by LoudmouthMormon

[Calm]

11 minutes ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

I'm not sure the phrase has anything to do with incidents of fake racism.

Then it is a very poorly written phrase that is likely going to lead imo to a lot of miscommunication.   While I don’t think phrases that refer to a set of ideas are bad, when they are written in casual language, without jargon that indicates a specialized meaning, they tend to sound more like provocation than explanation or observation to me when it is a controversial topic.

Plus using it in a thread on hate crimes, what is its purpose if so narrow a meaning?

Perhaps Smac misunderstood its actual meaning?  If so, a great example on where it can decreasing understanding rather than increase.

Edited October 2, 2023 by Calm

[Damien the Leper]

On 9/29/2023 at 12:27 PM, LoudmouthMormon said:

Yay!   I woke up this morning wondering if anything interesting would happen.   And shortly after noon I got called a theonomy-wanting propaganda-espousing troglodyte!   I haven't made an entry in my insult file in almost a decade.   Thanks Mr Leper!

I instantly knew it was true.  No true troglodyte could possibly know what a theonomy was without looking it up, which I had to do.   But once I did, I was no longer a troglodyte, because I knew a big word.   

But the theonomy thing sounds interesting.  Have the mormons heard about that I wonder?

I don't remember speaking to you in particular on this matter. Rather narcissistic of you, Mr. LoudMouth.

[The Nehor]

Was just trying to help out a young bisexual guy who came into an online discussion forum I sometimes frequent. He is secretly dating a closeted guy. There were the standard warnings about it with people talking about the violence that can follow as people blame the outsider for corrupting their son/friend/sibling/whatever. Then he said he came from a very homophobic smaller town with confederate flags and all the other fun tropes. Then he clarified saying it was Utah and several people half-jokingly told him that it would have been much easier to just say you lived in Utah and the rest is assumed.

Then came the advice to get out of Utah with some who had lived in Utah and Idaho talking about how they never felt safe there and some talking about episodes of threatened or actual violence.

So….yeah, not good.