Free Speech on Campus Survey, LGBT+ by religion

[Smiley McGee]

2 minutes ago, rpn said:

If that is someday proven true, it should come as no surprise that there are many lds young men who deal with same sex attraction.

That’s a long winded way of saying “are gay”. Why not just say they’re gay? It’s not a slur.

[CV75]

5 hours ago, Calm said:

Would be very interested in the opinion of anyone who is educated in stats on this survey.

https://www.thefire.org/research-learn/2024-college-free-speech-rankings

This is relevant to the board because Pastor Ryan Burge used the data and came up with this interesting analysis that includes LDS (his bold, not mine).  I thought some might be interested.  

https://www.graphsaboutreligion.com/p/gender-sexual-orientation-and-religion?

Has anyone admitted they are educated in stats yet?

[california boy]

19 minutes ago, rpn said:

"Something else" could mean, I'm not going to tell you.

In the 1990's the BYU Alumni Mag reported on some research documenting  that same gender attraction occurred more often when the number of male children in the family was greater, and in the younger boys, suggesting it could be an hormonal issue in vitro.   Guess which faiths tend to have the largest families?    If that is someday proven true, it should come as no surprise that there are many lds young men who deal with same sex attraction.

NOTE:  I clearly recall the article, and when I tried a few years ago to track it down, others confirmed having read it to and my recollection of the report.  But none of us could pin down the exact issue nor find in the Alumni Mag old copies the article or anyone associated with the Alumni Mag who acknowledged knowing it.

I remember reading that study as well.  

[Calm]

15 minutes ago, Smiley McGee said:

That’s a long winded way of saying “are gay”. Why not just say they’re gay? It’s not a slur.

Because there are men who are bisexuals, in fact more than there are gays. 

Edited September 23, 2023 by Calm

[Calm]

1 minute ago, california boy said:

I remember reading that study as well.  

I remember the study well (referenced it in my second post iirc under larger families). I don’t think I would have read it in the magazine though as we were in Canada in the mid90s. 

[Calm]

10 minutes ago, CV75 said:

Has anyone admitted they are educated in stats yet?

Just my husband, but he is not interested in board discussion except on rare occasions. 

[CV75]

7 minutes ago, Calm said:

Because there are men who are bisexuals, in fact more than there are gays. 

It would be good to see a copy of the blank survey and whether or what definitions were given for the terms used in the response options. This would have somewhat helped standardize the respondents' interpretation given "religiocultural" sensitivities.

Edited September 23, 2023 by CV75

[Calm]

30 minutes ago, rpn said:

brewhaha

Close…Brouhaha 

[Smiley McGee]

17 minutes ago, Calm said:

Because there are men who are bisexuals, in fact more than there are gays. 

Really Calm? That’s why people say “deal with same sex attraction” instead “gay”? Sensitivity to bisexuals feeling excluded?

Edited September 23, 2023 by Smiley McGee

[Calm]

40 minutes ago, Smiley McGee said:

Really Calm? That’s why people say “deal with same sex attraction” instead “gay”? Sensitivity to bisexuals feeling excluded?

That is why I do. I had a couple of acquaintances  who were lesbians back in high school and where I worked during college years and they didn’t like that they were always stuck under the label of “gay” plus read a few articles with the same position over the years and that has stuck with me, so generally I use same sex attraction/behaviour or something more precise or LGBT or a variation when speaking generally. 
 

I am starting to use queer more as that is my daughter’s preference, but it still feels a bit wrong as it was used as an insult in my youth.  It appears to be a generally accepted global term by most in the LGBTQ+ community, but I know some on the board still find that very derogatory. 

Edited September 23, 2023 by Calm

[Smiley McGee]

30 minutes ago, Calm said:

I am starting to use queer more as that is my daughter’s preference, but it still feels a bit wrong as it was used as an insult in my youth.

Same here. It feels derogatory to me because of how it was used growing up. 

[Calm]

18 minutes ago, Smiley McGee said:

Same here. It feels derogatory to me because of how it was used growing up. 

I am surprised I am as comfortable as I am speaking it, writing it is harder.  It’s my daughter’s choice and she finds other descriptors as not as fitting for herself, so I adjust.  Not a big ask from her.  It’s respectful even if it doesn’t feel like it at times, lol.

Edited September 23, 2023 by Calm

[Calm]

Is anyone interested enough to try and follow the pastor’s trail and find out where he got the data from?  I had a friend try to do this and he’s not seeing anything in the link I gave him to the Fire survey that relates to the chart.  I want to make sure I gave out the right link.

The survey questions wouldn’t provide the data as those deal with Free Speech, so I am wondering if it was in the College pulse info connected to it and if so how to access it. 
 

added:  a little more reading gives me he got this from the demographic variables…which makes sense, but where can they be found?

added again:  I think I found it, can someone confirm I am right please?

And if so, anyone interested enough to email them?    I am thinking looking at this in my phone or iPad would be difficult. 

Edited September 23, 2023 by Calm

[The Nehor]

7 hours ago, Smiley McGee said:

Really Calm? That’s why people say “deal with same sex attraction” instead “gay”? Sensitivity to bisexuals feeling excluded?

Don’t make me get started on biphobia because I can go on forever about biphobia.

[The Nehor]

6 hours ago, Calm said:

That is why I do. I had a couple of acquaintances  who were lesbians back in high school and where I worked during college years and they didn’t like that they were always stuck under the label of “gay” plus read a few articles with the same position over the years and that has stuck with me, so generally I use same sex attraction/behaviour or something more precise or LGBT or a variation when speaking generally. 
 

I am starting to use queer more as that is my daughter’s preference, but it still feels a bit wrong as it was used as an insult in my youth.  It appears to be a generally accepted global term by most in the LGBTQ+ community, but I know some on the board still find that very derogatory. 

I found the word queer hard to use as it was a slur when I was young but it has largely been reclaimed and now is a general term for “not exclusively heterosexual”. I have grown used to it. Another term coming in to more general use is sapphic to refer to all “women loving women” relationships or “women who are into women” which is useful because calling them lesbian relationships feels odd to bisexual women. There isn’t a good equivalent for “men loving men” that has come into general usage yet.

[The Nehor]

8 hours ago, Smiley McGee said:

That’s what really happens when you crash into the harsh reality of reality of the real world. 

So to cease being of the world you should be really really gay?

Slightly more seriously the harsh reality is likely to be bigotry. Lots of people crawl back into the closet after college to try to maintain social respectability, preserve family ties, protect career aspirations, etc.

[Calm]

2 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I found the word queer hard to use as it was a slur when I was young but it has largely been reclaimed and now is a general term for “not exclusively heterosexual”. I have grown used to it. Another term coming in to more general use is sapphic to refer to all “women loving women” relationships or “women who are into women” which is useful because calling them lesbian relationships feels odd to bisexual women. There isn’t a good equivalent for “men loving men” that has come into general usage yet.

Good to know. 

[Kenngo1969]

12 hours ago, rpn said:

... And if I'd been asked this question when the brewhaha (sp?) about the colored lights on Y Mountain, I might not have  identified myself accurately either.

"Brewhahas" happen only at the bars or at other places where excess consumption of such adult beverages have taken place.  Otherwise, it's a brouhaha.

https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-1-d&q=brouhaha+

 

Quote

 

Dictionary

Definitions from Oxford Languages · Learn more

 

brou·ha·ha

/ˈbro͞oˌhäˌhä/

noun

noun: brouhaha; plural noun: brouhahas

1. a noisy and overexcited reaction or response to something.

   "all that election brouhaha"

    

Origin

late 19th century: from French, probably imitative.

 

Use over time for: brouhaha

 

 

 

Edited September 23, 2023 by Kenngo1969

[webbles]

7 hours ago, Calm said:

Is anyone interested enough to try and follow the pastor’s trail and find out where he got the data from?  I had a friend try to do this and he’s not seeing anything in the link I gave him to the Fire survey that relates to the chart.  I want to make sure I gave out the right link.

The survey questions wouldn’t provide the data as those deal with Free Speech, so I am wondering if it was in the College pulse info connected to it and if so how to access it. 
 

added:  a little more reading gives me he got this from the demographic variables…which makes sense, but where can they be found?

added again:  I think I found it, can someone confirm I am right please?

And if so, anyone interested enough to email them?    I am thinking looking at this in my phone or iPad would be difficult. 

The dashboard rankings.thefire.org doesn't have enough information to generate the graphs he did.  So I think he requested the raw data file.

[MrShorty]

To answer my own question, Jana Riess's Religion News article claims that Burge's survey involved 709 LDS students. She also adds an observation from Ben Knolls and the Nationscape dataset that shows similar results. https://religionnews.com/2023/09/22/a-fifth-of-mormon-college-students-in-the-us-say-theyre-lgbq-new-study-shows/ And, if you follow the links to her original article about Ben Knolls results, you see a long discussion about how data from the Nationscape survey shows a strong difference between LDS in the West and LDS elsewhere and how that coupled with Nationscape's sampling methodology might skew the results.

All to say the same thing that we almost always say about survey data like this, until someone with the right skill set looks at FIRE's sampling methodology and how that impacts the makeup of the LDS sample for these results, there is cause to be cautious in the conclusions we draw.

[CV75]

7 hours ago, The Nehor said:

I found the word queer hard to use as it was a slur when I was young but it has largely been reclaimed and now is a general term for “not exclusively heterosexual”. I have grown used to it. Another term coming in to more general use is sapphic to refer to all “women loving women” relationships or “women who are into women” which is useful because calling them lesbian relationships feels odd to bisexual women. There isn’t a good equivalent for “men loving men” that has come into general usage yet.

I'm guessing it will be "achillean" if all other considerations are deemed to be equal.

[Smiley McGee]

8 hours ago, The Nehor said:

Don’t make me get started on biphobia because I can go on forever about biphobia.

Ya it seems bisexuals can’t catch a break anywhere. 

[longview]

5 hours ago, Calm said:

8 hours ago, The Nehor said:

There isn’t a good equivalent for “men loving men” that has come into general usage yet.

Good to know. 

Philadelphia - a greek compound word meaning brotherly love.

[Pyreaux]

On 9/22/2023 at 3:00 PM, california boy said:

My guess, and it is strickly a guess, I think that maybe more LDS gays identify as being members longer than those that leave other Christian religions.  Other gays that grow up Christian arrive in the "Nothing in Particular, Other, Athiest, Agnostic" statistics much sooner than LDS members.  

You think its because somewhat like Judaism, with ancestral focus, Mormonism is a quasi-ethno-religion? Like any Jack-Mormon, they don't go to church or follow any of its teachings, but maybe they are either still a fan of what it does, like it's a local sport team, or his family or great grandfather was a Mormon pioneer, therefore, a "Mormon", based on heritage alone. Ethno-identity. Or is it you are always Mormon, until you've actually become something else, you're just very inactive.

My wayward siblings clinged on to their identity long after going inactive and forsaking its teachings very piecemeal (curse you gateway Mochaccinos with whip cream and caramel, that's not what real coffee tastes like). My sister lived in sin with another LDS boy, and they chose each other, having oddly assumed we'd approve of their lifestyle because they kept the label, I guess a contrast to her other sister who once she was 18, swiftly married a non-member to help facilitate her move out of the house and went inactive. We indeed had issue with her husband basicly taking her away from us. But we'd much rather my forementioned sister was civilly married also, and cared not whether he was a member or not, that wasn't the real problem we had with the other sister's marriage. They all fondly appreciated they're good up bringing, and church friends, just now it's a lot of uninterest and boredom to either study, to go to church, or now stopping their newfound vices.

Edited September 24, 2023 by Pyreaux

[The Nehor]

50 minutes ago, CV75 said:

I'm guessing it will be "achillean" if all other considerations are deemed to be equal.

There was an attempt to make it something like that but the story of Achilles has a few aspects that make it a problematic choice. Mostly the rape stuff.

43 minutes ago, longview said:

Philadelphia - a greek compound word meaning brotherly love.

Only if we get Gritty as our mascot.