Thoughts on Indifference / Apathy

[smac97]

A few musings to get the ball rolling:

1. Definitions

Let's define some terms (emphases added) :

Indifference:

Quote

noun

1. lack of interest or concern: We were shocked by their indifference toward poverty.
2. unimportance; little or no concern: Whether or not to attend the party is a matter of indifference to him.
3. the quality or condition of being indifferent.
4. mediocre quality; mediocrity.

Indifferent:

Quote

adjective

1. without interest or concern; not caring; apathetic: his indifferent attitude toward the suffering of others.
2. having no bias, prejudice, or preference; impartial; disinterested.
3. neither good nor bad in character or quality; average; routine: an indifferent specimen.

Apathy:

Quote

noun

1. absence or suppression of passion, emotion, or excitement.
2. lack of interest in or concern for things that others find moving or exciting.
3. Also ap·a·thei·a, ap·a·thi·a  [ap-uh-thee-uh]. Stoicism. freedom from emotion of any kind.

Apathetic:

Quote

adjective

1. having or showing little or no emotion: apathetic behavior.
2. not interested or concerned; indifferent or unresponsive: an apathetic audience.

2. Appropriate Indifference v. Problematic Indifference

I think people can be legitimately indifferent/apathetic as to all sorts of things. 

I don't care about watching sports remotely, or any particular team (except a passing interest in BYU). 

I have very little interest in vast swaths of media (most gaming, social media, TV, streaming, movies, music, etc.), as much of it is either not worthwhile, or not appealing to me, or there is simply way too much of it for me to consider.

I am overwhelmingly indifferent to most aspects of political disputes outside the United States.  Again, there are way too many such disputes to even keep track of, let alone get invested in.

I cannot be all things to all people.  So I have to pick and choose.  Some attention to sp

Conversely to the foregoing matters, I think there are things that do merit attention and effort, but about which many people are indifferent/apathetic ("without interest or concern; not caring; ... absence or suppression of passion, emotion, or excitement ... lack of interest in or concern for things that others find moving or exciting ... indifferent or unresponsive," etc.).  This sort of indifference is problematic.

Physical health, for example.  I think we should pay a lot of attention to diet, hydration, sleep, exercise, medical check-ups, and so on.  Many of us (myself included) are not sufficiently attentive to these things). A few others: 

• Mental and emotional health.
• Family and personal relationships.
• Political goings-on (holding politicians accountable and being involved in political processes).
• Social trends (as in paying attention to those that ought to be avoided or opposed).
• Community strength and cohesion and service.
• Devotions to and relationship with God.

4. Consequences of (Problematic) Indifference

I think indifference to or apathy regarding such important matters will, sooner or later, cause both individual and collective malaise and difficulty.

5. Sources/Causes of (Problematic) Indifference

I theorize that the following are the primary sources of indifference/apathy in today's culture (mostly American/Western, I suppose) :

• Indifference by Distraction

I think much of the "problematic" indifference arises because we are spending too much time and attention and effort on lesser things.  "When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things."  (1 Cor. 13:11.)  "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone."

Too much time watching streaming media or just being "online" for not particular purpose, such that it comes at the expense of exercising the body, of interacting with others, serving others, strengthening society, etc.

Too much time getting caught up in divisive sociopolitical kerfuffles and brouhahas (often driven by social and other forms of mostly online media), at the expense of building actual in-person relationships, serving others, and seeking to build bridges of understanding and mutual respect.

• Indifference by Social Pressure

The Great and Spacious Building is alive and well.  Social pressure these days is pretty intense, and some of that pressure is to conform to the desires and expectations of strangers.  If they don't want you to be attuned to this or that topic, or if you have an opinion that varies from theirs, you run the risk of getting dogpiled and labeled.  Ridicule and scorn, pointing fingers and vilification are the order of the day.  Your options are to adopt their view or else remain silent (and that second one is sometimes not available).

• Indifference by Inexperience / Ease

I think a lot of indifference comes from ignorance, which ignorance comes from a lack of "getting out there" and experiencing the real world, as opposed to agenda-driven narratives about it.  For example, I am quite surprised at how many of us have blithely adopted strident positions on this or that subject, despite having no particular experience with it or knowledge about it.

We also have too much ease in life.  Life is too comfortable.  Entertainment is too readily at hand.  

• Indifference by Fear

Lastly, I also think a lot of indifference comes by way of fear.  This may be a subset of "Indifference by Social Pressure," as much of the fear I see is driven by news and social media content.  There is a lot of pessimism out there.  And a lot of misanthropy.  A lot.  And it seems to be a learned characteristic.  Decisions borne of fear (such as whether to be attentive or indifferent to this or that topic) is an unfortunate thing.

6. Indifference in the Latter-day Saint Paradigm

I think one of the greatest hindrances to the growth and progress of the Church is indifference and apathy, both within and without the Church.  

7. Questions

With the foregoing in mind, here are my questions:

A. Do you think that indifference/apathy is a serious issue in society generally?

B. Do you think that indifference/apathy is a serious issue in the Church?

C. What remedies do you think we can utilize to counter indifference/apathy in and around the Church?

Thanks,

-Smac

[The Nehor]

A. No, if anything I think the rising generation is more empathetic.
B. Not sure.
C. Give people things to be excited about.

[MustardSeed]

17 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

A. No, if anything I think the rising generation is more empathetic.
B. Not sure.
C. Give people things to be excited about.

Yep

[CV75]

53 minutes ago, smac97 said:

A few musings to get the ball rolling:

1. Definitions

Let's define some terms (emphases added) :

Indifference:

Indifferent:

Apathy:

Apathetic:

2. Appropriate Indifference v. Problematic Indifference

I think people can be legitimately indifferent/apathetic as to all sorts of things. 

I don't care about watching sports remotely, or any particular team (except a passing interest in BYU). 

I have very little interest in vast swaths of media (most gaming, social media, TV, streaming, movies, music, etc.), as much of it is either not worthwhile, or not appealing to me, or there is simply way too much of it for me to consider.

I am overwhelmingly indifferent to most aspects of political disputes outside the United States.  Again, there are way too many such disputes to even keep track of, let alone get invested in.

I cannot be all things to all people.  So I have to pick and choose.  Some attention to sp

Conversely to the foregoing matters, I think there are things that do merit attention and effort, but about which many people are indifferent/apathetic ("without interest or concern; not caring; ... absence or suppression of passion, emotion, or excitement ... lack of interest in or concern for things that others find moving or exciting ... indifferent or unresponsive," etc.).  This sort of indifference is problematic.

Physical health, for example.  I think we should pay a lot of attention to diet, hydration, sleep, exercise, medical check-ups, and so on.  Many of us (myself included) are not sufficiently attentive to these things). A few others: 

• Mental and emotional health.
• Family and personal relationships.
• Political goings-on (holding politicians accountable and being involved in political processes).
• Social trends (as in paying attention to those that ought to be avoided or opposed).
• Community strength and cohesion and service.
• Devotions to and relationship with God.

4. Consequences of (Problematic) Indifference

I think indifference to or apathy regarding such important matters will, sooner or later, cause both individual and collective malaise and difficulty.

5. Sources/Causes of (Problematic) Indifference

I theorize that the following are the primary sources of indifference/apathy in today's culture (mostly American/Western, I suppose) :

• Indifference by Distraction

I think much of the "problematic" indifference arises because we are spending too much time and attention and effort on lesser things.  "When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things."  (1 Cor. 13:11.)  "Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone."

Too much time watching streaming media or just being "online" for not particular purpose, such that it comes at the expense of exercising the body, of interacting with others, serving others, strengthening society, etc.

Too much time getting caught up in divisive sociopolitical kerfuffles and brouhahas (often driven by social and other forms of mostly online media), at the expense of building actual in-person relationships, serving others, and seeking to build bridges of understanding and mutual respect.

• Indifference by Social Pressure

The Great and Spacious Building is alive and well.  Social pressure these days is pretty intense, and some of that pressure is to conform to the desires and expectations of strangers.  If they don't want you to be attuned to this or that topic, or if you have an opinion that varies from theirs, you run the risk of getting dogpiled and labeled.  Ridicule and scorn, pointing fingers and vilification are the order of the day.  Your options are to adopt their view or else remain silent (and that second one is sometimes not available).

• Indifference by Inexperience / Ease

I think a lot of indifference comes from ignorance, which ignorance comes from a lack of "getting out there" and experiencing the real world, as opposed to agenda-driven narratives about it.  For example, I am quite surprised at how many of us have blithely adopted strident positions on this or that subject, despite having no particular experience with it or knowledge about it.

We also have too much ease in life.  Life is too comfortable.  Entertainment is too readily at hand.  

• Indifference by Fear

Lastly, I also think a lot of indifference comes by way of fear.  This may be a subset of "Indifference by Social Pressure," as much of the fear I see is driven by news and social media content.  There is a lot of pessimism out there.  And a lot of misanthropy.  A lot.  And it seems to be a learned characteristic.  Decisions borne of fear (such as whether to be attentive or indifferent to this or that topic) is an unfortunate thing.

6. Indifference in the Latter-day Saint Paradigm

I think one of the greatest hindrances to the growth and progress of the Church is indifference and apathy, both within and without the Church.  

7. Questions

With the foregoing in mind, here are my questions:

A. Do you think that indifference/apathy is a serious issue in society generally?

B. Do you think that indifference/apathy is a serious issue in the Church?

C. What remedies do you think we can utilize to counter indifference/apathy in and around the Church?

Thanks,

-Smac

Despite the many causes of indifference, I think indifference to things of the Spirit has been a hazard of great concern since Year One, so I am not tackling this as a matter of social science. But, yes, (A) I think that indifference/apathy to things of the Spirit is a serious issue in society generally; (B) I think that indifference/apathy to things of the Spirit is a serious issue in the Church (“In coming days, it will not be possible to survive spiritually without the guiding, directing, comforting and constant influence of the Holy Ghost” -- President Nelson, 2018) – that is not to say the Church is failing in this regard; (C) personally apply the principles of the Restored Gospel.

[smac97]

Just now, CV75 said:

Despite the many causes of indifference, I think indifference to things of the Spirit has been a hazard of great concern since Year One, so I am not tackling this as a matter of social science.

Okay.

Just now, CV75 said:

But, yes, (A) I think that indifference/apathy to things of the Spirit is a serious issue in society generally; (B) I think that indifference/apathy to things of the Spirit is a serious issue in the Church (“In coming days, it will not be possible to survive spiritually without the guiding, directing, comforting and constant influence of the Holy Ghost” -- President Nelson, 2018) – that is not to say the Church is failing in this regard; (C) personally apply the principles of the Restored Gospel.

Good stuff.  As to (C), how does, or why would, a person indifferent to or apathetic about the Restored Gospel apply its principles?  It seems like overcoming such indifference/apathy is a threshold issue.

Thanks,

-Smac

[smac97]

30 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

C. Give people things to be excited about.

I think this is one of the functions of the ordinances, and of the temples, and of General Conference and hearing from living prophets and apostles, and of missionary work and other service opportunities, and of building up the stakes of a "Zion" community, and of the Book of Mormon.

"Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him."  (1 Cor. 2:9.)

"And we talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that our children may know to what source they may look for a remission of their sins."  (2 Nephi 25:26.)

"Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid."  (John 14:27.)

But these things mean little to someone who is indifferent to the core message of the Restored Gospel.  

Thanks,

-Smac

[LoudmouthMormon]

I see an awful lot of social pressure and fear happening in my various circles.  I've lost count of the number of people I know who have seized on to one single high-outrage/high-emotion current news story, and that seems to be all they can think and talk about.

Outrage and hate pr0n.  Negative emotion drives votes and clicks and views.  Politicians live off votes, and lots of folks live off the revenue derived from clicks and views.  Been with us for a long time.

In related news, I see Jerry Springer recently died at age 79.  I think he was one of the major forces bringing such energy-diverting horribleness into existence, at least for the current living generations.  Rome's colosseum gladiator battles, for the modern age.

Edited April 27, 2023 by LoudmouthMormon

[Vanguard]

1 hour ago, smac97 said:

C. What remedies do you think we can utilize to counter indifference/apathy in and around the Church?

I think more humanitarian efforts would counter much indifference. I was/am delighted with the Church's announcement about donating x amount of acre/ft to the Great Salt Lake (in perpetuity?). I realize I have 'ignorance blinders' regards to how much humanitarian effort is actually doable and I am aware of how much the Church is already doing. I say there cannot be enough of these wonderful efforts. It has been a topic of conversations on numerous occasions both within and without the Church community. It makes me proud of these efforts. : )  

[smac97]

36 minutes ago, Vanguard said:

I think more humanitarian efforts would counter much indifference.

More efforts by whom?  The institutional church?  Or its constituent members?

36 minutes ago, Vanguard said:

I was/am delighted with the Church's announcement about donating x amount of acre/ft to the Great Salt Lake (in perpetuity?).

So was I, but I don't think it moved the needle for anyone presently indifferent to the merits of the Restored Gospel and the institution which houses and administers it.

36 minutes ago, Vanguard said:

I realize I have 'ignorance blinders' regards to how much humanitarian effort is actually doable and I am aware of how much the Church is already doing. I say there cannot be enough of these wonderful efforts. It has been a topic of conversations on numerous occasions both within and without the Church community. It makes me proud of these efforts. : )  

Good stuff.

Thanks,

-Smac

[mfbukowski]

Meh.

 

[pogi]

3 hours ago, smac97 said:

I think people can be legitimately indifferent/apathetic as to all sorts of things. 

I have very little interest in vast swaths of media (most gaming, social media, TV, streaming, movies, music, etc.), as much of it is either not worthwhile, or not appealing to me, or there is simply way too much of it for me to consider.

Bolded part is mine.   

I think many people have this same valid issue when it comes to religion/spirituality, which can lead many to indifference. 

I don't know what the proper remedy would be other than hoping that they are eventually led by life experience and inner promptings to recognize the value of a relationship with divinity.  

[CV75]

3 hours ago, smac97 said:

Okay.

Good stuff.  As to (C), how does, or why would, a person indifferent to or apathetic about the Restored Gospel apply its principles?  It seems like overcoming such indifference/apathy is a threshold issue.

Thanks,

-Smac

I think we can live the Restored Gospel so as to "succor the weak, lift up the hands which hang down, and strengthen the feeble knees," including the near-apathetic, and entice the apathetic to repent. When we can through our behavior and demeanor influence someone to consider even a desire to believe (this is the threshold), the principles in Alma 32 work from there.

There are so many areas and ways in which we can repent once we want and decide to. Repentance in one area can dislodge apathy in another area.

Edited April 27, 2023 by CV75

[Vanguard]

1 hour ago, smac97 said:

More efforts by whom?  The institutional church?  Or its constituent members?

Certainly both though I was thinking about the institutional church. I suspect as we march forward in the very near future we will see even more effort by the institutional church as I believe the world's needs continue to increase.

[smac97]

13 minutes ago, Vanguard said:

Quote

More efforts by whom?  The institutional church?  Or its constituent members?

Certainly both though I was thinking about the institutional church. I suspect as we march forward in the very near future we will see even more effort by the institutional church as I believe the world's needs continue to increase.

I wonder how effective this will be as coming from the institutional church.  What effect will such humanitarian efforts have on someone who is predisposed to being indifferent about the Restored Gospel?

Thanks,

-Smac

[CV75]

3 hours ago, smac97 said:

I think this is one of the functions of the ordinances, and of the temples, and of General Conference and hearing from living prophets and apostles, and of missionary work and other service opportunities, and of building up the stakes of a "Zion" community, and of the Book of Mormon.

"Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him."  (1 Cor. 2:9.)

"And we talk of Christ, we rejoice in Christ, we preach of Christ, we prophesy of Christ, and we write according to our prophecies, that our children may know to what source they may look for a remission of their sins."  (2 Nephi 25:26.)

"Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid."  (John 14:27.)

But these things mean little to someone who is indifferent to the core message of the Restored Gospel.  

Thanks,

-Smac

I would say that indifference to the core message of the Restored Gospel is a matter between the individual and the Lord.  I believe the Lord works with everyone in getting this core message to them over their lifetime, and in most cases the spirit world. The job for those of us who have received and accepted it is to walk in tandem with the Lord as we repent and progress throughout life, because this will be of welcome use to Him as He works with those who have not yet received (or retained) it for one reason or another, including spiritual apathy. 

In an extreme way, "past feeling" comes from spiritual apathy. Nephi used the term, "past feeling ...the still small voice," or to be hard of heart. His brothers became angry at this, hardly apathetic. Mormon used it more broadly to denote being "without principle," in a state of wickedness and rebellion, much as Nephi's brothers were (and as the Nephite civilization, even worse). Similarly, from Ephesians 4, spiritual apathy is vanity and darkness of mind, the preference to be alienated from God, ignorant and blind; the decision to be lascivious, unclean and greedy.

17 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind,

18 Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart:

19 Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

20 But ye have not so learned Christ;

So, I think the 'spark" needs to come from the light of Christ.

[CV75]

21 minutes ago, Mitchel Dyck said:

I'm super excited to share this amazing testimony on how I won $70,000,000 Million dollars with the help of Dr Benjamin who gave me some lottery winning numbers, I have been playing lottery games for years now and I never won, one fateful day my colleague told me how he had helped his cousin win lottery and he gave me his contact information, after the close of the day I emailed him and he responded after some time, I told him all I wanted and he assured me that he's going to help me as he has done for many. After some time he gave me an instruction which I followed diligently, later that night he gave me the numbers and I played it as instructed to my biggest surprise I was among the luck winners. It was a dream come through for me. My big thank you Dr Benjamin for your selfless services to humanity and I pray that you reap the fruit of your services now and always. If you need same miracle he's open to helping as many that comes to him for help, he can help you too. Contact him today via his personal information, Email: drbenjaminlottospell711@gmail.com
Whatsapp:+17066036031
 

Hey buddy, can you spare a dime?

[The Nehor]

2 hours ago, LoudmouthMormon said:

I see an awful lot of social pressure and fear happening in my various circles.  I've lost count of the number of people I know who have seized on to one single high-outrage/high-emotion current news story, and that seems to be all they can think and talk about.

Outrage and hate pr0n.  Negative emotion drives votes and clicks and views.  Politicians live off votes, and lots of folks live off the revenue derived from clicks and views.  Been with us for a long time.

In related news, I see Jerry Springer recently died at age 79.  I think he was one of the major forces bringing such energy-diverting horribleness into existence, at least for the current living generations.  Rome's colosseum gladiator battles, for the modern age.

I thought that was football.

[The Nehor]

24 minutes ago, Mitchel Dyck said:

I'm super excited to share this amazing testimony on how I won $70,000,000 Million dollars with the help of Dr Benjamin who gave me some lottery winning numbers, I have been playing lottery games for years now and I never won, one fateful day my colleague told me how he had helped his cousin win lottery and he gave me his contact information, after the close of the day I emailed him and he responded after some time, I told him all I wanted and he assured me that he's going to help me as he has done for many. After some time he gave me an instruction which I followed diligently, later that night he gave me the numbers and I played it as instructed to my biggest surprise I was among the luck winners. It was a dream come through for me. My big thank you Dr Benjamin for your selfless services to humanity and I pray that you reap the fruit of your services now and always. If you need same miracle he's open to helping as many that comes to him for help, he can help you too. Contact him today via his personal information, Email: drbenjaminlottospell711@gmail.com
Whatsapp:+17066036031
 

Yep, if I figured out a trick to consistently win the lottery the first thing I would do would definitely be to tell everyone about it.

[Vanguard]

1 minute ago, smac97 said:

I wonder how effective this will be as coming from the institutional church.  What effect will such humanitarian efforts have on someone who is predisposed to being indifferent about the Restored Gospel?

Thanks,

-Smac

Good point though I think it does have a positive impact on many (from my own experience) and on some who may have otherwise been indifferent. What's really nice about the institutional effort is that I believe these efforts will continue regardless of whether we see measurable declines in indifference. In other words, these humanitarian actions should not be exclusively about getting others to finally recognize our efforts but instead be about helping our fellow man because it is the right thing to do. And it goes without saying that individual efforts are massive. And yes, there will always be those who continue not only being willfully indifferent to the efforts but who are also still adversarial regards to any efforts made.