China & Utah, an unlikely alliance.

[CA Steve]

Amid strained US ties, China finds unlikely friend in Utah

This is an interesting AP article showing how China has courted local influence in Utah to increase public opinion in favor of China. Some of the story focuses on Chinese individuals who converted to Mormonism and how they use their membership within the Mormon community to influence pro-Chinese views.

Quote

In January, former graduate student Ji Chaoqun was sentenced to eight years in prison on charges related to spying for China. The Chicago student told an undercover agent he’d been tasked by his spy handlers “to meet people, some American friends.” He was baptized at a Latter-day Saints church and told the undercover agent he’d “been going to Utah more often lately” before his arrest, according to his Facebook page and court records.

Quote

Taowen Le, has championed China to religious and political leaders in Utah for decades. Le, a Chinese citizen, moved to Utah in the 1980s and has been a professor of information technology at Weber State University since 1998. Le converted in 1990 to the Mormon faith.

A hallmark of Le’s approach is to utilize his religion in his pitches to lawmakers. He quoted scripture from the Bible and the Book of Mormon in his emails, text messages and letters, and sprinkled in positive comments that Russell Nelson, the church’s president-prophet, has made about China.

Long article but worth reading.

[smac97]

58 minutes ago, CA Steve said:

Amid strained US ties, China finds unlikely friend in Utah

This is an interesting AP article showing how China has courted local influence in Utah to increase public opinion in favor of China. Some of the story focuses on Chinese individuals who converted to Mormonism and how they use their membership within the Mormon community to influence pro-Chinese views.

Quote

In January, former graduate student Ji Chaoqun was sentenced to eight years in prison on charges related to spying for China. The Chicago student told an undercover agent he’d been tasked by his spy handlers “to meet people, some American friends.” He was baptized at a Latter-day Saints church and told the undercover agent he’d “been going to Utah more often lately” before his arrest, according to his Facebook page and court records.

A few thoughts on this:

1. I served my mission in Taiwan from 1993-1995, and before that I served in the military.  I am therefore not impartial here, but only in the "political" and national security aspects.  I admire Taiwan for its republican / representative democracy form of government, and I really dislike the communist regime in China.  

2. As far as the actual people go, however, I have much admiration and respect for both the mainlanders and the Taiwanese, and their respective cultures.  Mainland China has suffered under the yoke of communisim for many decades now, and that has had many unfortunate effects on that society.  One facet of that can be seen in One Child Nation, a documentary about the effects of China's one-child policy.

3. I think it is important that we as Latter-day Saints differentiate between authoritarian regimes and the people who are compulsorily subject to those regimes. 

4. I think the institutional Church has attempted to maintain good/decent relations with the government in China, but solely as a means of it (the Church) establishing a presence there by "going through the front door."  See, e.g., here:

Quote

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints – the mainstream Mormon Church – has been seeking to establish itself in the People’s Republic of China since the 1980s. Unlike other religious movements of Christian and foreign origin, which have chosen to go underground, the LDS Church has adopted a strategy of complying with the law and negotiating with the state to obtain official authorisation to conduct its religious activities.

5. I have a dear friend from Mainland China.  She joined the Church while living in the States while her husband was at university here.  She returned here several years ago and now lives here.  I recently attended baptismal services of one of her sons, and it was a great experience.  She has a very strong testimony of the Restored Gospel.  I am sure there are many more converts like her.

6. Notwithstanding the foregoing, I am not surprised to hear that there has been at least one Chinese National who has A) joined the Church and B) committed espionage.  Per this article, Ji Chaoqun came to the U.S. in 2013 to study engineering at the Illinois Institute of Technology in Chicago, that before and after his arrival he was purportedly "targeted by agents with the Ministry of State Security, or MSS" and "eventually given a top secret contract in which he swore an oath of allegiance to the agency’s cause, agreeing to 'devote the rest of my life to state security.'"  He "was ultimately able to gather background reports on eight U.S. citizens, all born in Taiwan or China, with careers in science and technology industries, including several who specialized in the aerospace field," and in 2016 he "enlisted in the U.S. Army Reserve through a program to recruit foreigners who have skills considered vital to the national interest."  His defense attorney stated that "Ji was never accused of stealing any government secrets, only of gathering background that anyone wanting to research a neighbor or potential date could pay for on the internet."  The article makes no mention of his joining the Church.  Similarly, the various press releases from the USDOJ about the prosecution of this man make no reference at all to his baptism. The same goes for the various (7-8) news articles I found about his arrest and prosecution.

7. The article also references Ron Hansen, who - unlike Ji Chaoqun - is apparently a lifelong member of the Church.  Lots of news about this (and I had heard nothing about it) :

• Deseret News 2018-07-13 - Retired Army officer from Utah accused of spying for China pleads not guilty
• Deseret News 2019-09-24 - Retired Utah Army officer turned spy for China headed to prison
• Ogden Standard-Examiner 2018-06-17 - FBI says accused spy from Syracuse made escape plans, warned of Chinese
• Washington Free Beacon 2019-03-20 - Former DIA Officer Who Spied for China Hated Trump
• DOJ 2018-06-04 - Former Defense Intelligence Officer Arrested for Attempted Espionage
• DOJ 2019-03-19 - Former Defense Intelligence Officer Pleads Guilty to Attempted Espionage
• DOJ 2019-09-24 - Former Intelligence Officer Convicted of Attempted Espionage Sentenced to 10 Years in Federal Prison

Wow.  Very troubling.

58 minutes ago, CA Steve said:

Quote

Taowen Le, has championed China to religious and political leaders in Utah for decades. Le, a Chinese citizen, moved to Utah in the 1980s and has been a professor of information technology at Weber State University since 1998. Le converted in 1990 to the Mormon faith.

A hallmark of Le’s approach is to utilize his religion in his pitches to lawmakers. He quoted scripture from the Bible and the Book of Mormon in his emails, text messages and letters, and sprinkled in positive comments that Russell Nelson, the church’s president-prophet, has made about China.

Long article but worth reading.

More about Taowen Le here:

Quote

Utah Republican Sen. Jake Anderegg told the AP he was interviewed by the FBI after introducing a 2020 resolution expressing solidarity with China in the early days of the coronavirus pandemic. It won nearly unanimous approval. A similar resolution, proposed by a Chinese diplomat, was publicly rejected by Wisconsin’s Senate.

Anderegg said the language was provided to him by Dan Stephenson, the son of a former state senator and employee of a China-based consulting firm.

Stephenson and another Utah resident, Taowen Le, are among China’s most vocal advocates in Utah.

Both men have supported and sought to block resolutions, set up meetings between Utah lawmakers and Chinese officials, accompanied legislators on trips to China and provided advice on the best way to cultivate favor with Beijing, according to emails and interviews. Both have ties to what experts say are front groups for Beijing.

After embassy officials tried unsuccessfully last year to get staff for Utah Gov. Spencer Cox to schedule a get-together with China’s ambassador to the U.S., Le sent the governor a personal plea to take such a meeting.

“I still remember and cherish what you told me at the New Year Party held at your home,” Le wrote in a letter adorned with pictures of him and Cox posing together. “You told me that you trusted me to be a good messenger and friendship builder between Utah and China.”

Both men said their advocacy on China-related issues were self directed and not at the Chinese government’s behest. Le told AP he has been interviewed twice over the years by the FBI.

The FBI declined to comment.

Thanks,

-Smac

[smac97]

Gotta love how Newsweek frames this: China Using Mormon Church to Influence U.S. Politics, Investigation Finds

Quote

China allegedly fostered connections in Utah, some by way of the Mormon church, in order to influence U.S. affairs, according to a new report.

The findings originate from an Associated Press report published on Monday, which found that "China and its U.S.-based advocates" had been building relationships with state government officials and lawmakers in Utah over the course of "years." Some of these connections included appeals to Utah officials' connections to Mormonism and the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, an offshoot of Christianity founded in the state and practiced by a majority of its residents.

Thanks,

-Smac

[Calm]

I have a nephew in law from Mainland China.  I could see him as a spy, he has that cool vibe, lol.  Have to do a major masking of his sweetness though.

We love the guy and his testimony is solid.  I hope this doesn’t upset him.  I suspect he is going to get a lot of teasing over it, but it will be just wrong if someone paranoid starts spreading lies about him.

[The Nehor]

This isn’t limited to Utah. Most intelligence assets don’t even know they are assets and it is less about acquiring sensitive information and more about propaganda and subversion than it was in the past.

[Dario_M]

I find this a but disturbing though. Why want China spy on the US so much lately? First those Chinese balloons. And now this. I find this really strange. I believe that the whole USA needs to be carefull with this. And watchful with this kind of behavoir that is coming from the far east. 

Edited March 28, 2023 by Dario_M

[The Nehor]

3 hours ago, Dario_M said:

I find this a but disturbing though. Why want China spy on the US so much lately? First those Chinese balloons. And now this. I find this really strange. I believe that the whole USA needs to be carefull with this. And watchful with this kind of behavoir that is coming from the far east. 

They are always spying. Russia has actually been more active, particularly in online disinformation campaigns. They have been hampered somewhat by being unable to fund the influencers they were paying off and struggling to keep their bot farms running under the sanctions over Ukraine.

It is not clear what the balloons were doing. It is possible they were sent and meant to be detected, a kind of show of force in retaliation for the recent US military expansion in the Pacific. It is unlikely they were doing visual surveillance. The balloons were at the mercy of the weather and couldn’t be directed that well so it wasn’t to spy visually on anything. In any case anything the balloon could see a satellite could see so not much point. It might have been designed to pick up transmissions but that is also not something you need a balloon for. It might also be they just wanted to see if and how the US would shoot the thing down to get a peek at our response plans. I would love to know what the recovery teams found but they are not likely to release that information.

[Dario_M]

3 hours ago, The Nehor said:

They are always spying. Russia has actually been more active, particularly in online disinformation campaigns. They have been hampered somewhat by being unable to fund the influencers they were paying off and struggling to keep their bot farms running under the sanctions over Ukraine.

 

Dude, you gotta be kidding me. Did you know that we have a Russian girl in our ward. I hope she is not also a spy.🥶 I can't imagine why though. I mean... why would anyone wanna spying in Portugal? US is a better place to spy because you guys have more secret projects going on i guess. And think for example about Area 51. That's also a place where strange thinks are happening. Nobody knows exactly what is happening there (only God knows offcourse, bless the lord✝️) because it's a top secret place. Nobody is allowed in that area. 

Portugal doesn't have those places. And in the Netherlands i also can't remember that we had those kind of secret places or areas.

Yeah maybe.....we had a nuclear reactor close to where i lived though. But that's about it. 

3 hours ago, The Nehor said:

It is not clear what the balloons were doing. It is possible they were sent and meant to be detected, a kind of show of force in retaliation for the recent US military expansion in the Pacific. It is unlikely they were doing visual surveillance. The balloons were at the mercy of the weather and couldn’t be directed that well so it wasn’t to spy visually on anything.

Well..those balloons looked really shady to me. 

3 hours ago, The Nehor said:

In any case anything the balloon could see a satellite could see so not much point. It might have been designed to pick up transmissions but that is also not something you need a balloon for. It might also be they just wanted to see if and how the US would shoot the thing down to get a peek at our response plans. I would love to know what the recovery teams found but they are not likely to release that information.

No they will most likely keep that information for themselfs unfortunatly. 

Edited March 28, 2023 by Dario_M

[Kenngo1969]

It's a tricky minefield to try to navigate: Do we [Latter-day Saints, Utahns, state or federal government officials who happen to be members of the Church of Jesus Christ] want to build good relationships with the people of China?  I would say, "Yes, absolutely."  And we don't blame the people of China for the fact that they live under an oppressive regime.  Do we want to build good relationships with the government of China?  In terms of being good "neighbors" as two nations of the Earth, if not in the sense of having contiguous territory, yes.  But I think, in this situation, that it behooves us to keep uppermost in mind the Savior's caution: "Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves. Be ye therefore wise as serpents and harmless as doves" (Matthew 10:16, KJV).

[OGHoosier]

On 3/27/2023 at 12:28 PM, smac97 said:

Gotta love how Newsweek frames this: China Using Mormon Church to Influence U.S. Politics, Investigation Finds

Lol, the bad frames come like clockwork. 

I have a bit of experience with the Church and China. I had the opportunity to spend a month in Beijing some years ago. We attended church in one of the expatriate branches - foreigners and native Chinese were not permitted to meet together. The members of the branch described what they suspected to be sting operations by the MSS, sending a local into the meeting in the expectation that we would handwave the rule. At one point we were rushed out of the meetinghouse (a high-rise office suite leased for the purpose) because the first members of the native ward were arriving and if we mingled with them there would be trouble. Lots of suspicion, but I wouldn't call it paranoia, not with what the MSS is capable of. 

Zhongnanhai would probably only let us in if they thought they could use us against their imperial rival. Probably going to be a long wait.

[Hamilton Porter]

I've been giving a former PLA soldier a ride to church. Makes me wonder.

[Dario_M]

On 3/29/2023 at 6:19 AM, Hamilton Porter said:

I've been giving a former PLA soldier a ride to church. Makes me wonder.

Be carefull. Maybe he is an spy. 👀

[The Nehor]

7 hours ago, Dario_M said:

Be carefull. Maybe he is an spy. 👀

Doubtful.

[Dario_M]

35 minutes ago, The Nehor said:

Doubtful.

Well.. you never know. 👀

The only thing i know for sure is that Grug most likely must be living in the centrum of Utah. ✝️

[nuclearfuels]

On 3/27/2023 at 2:09 PM, smac97 said:

Utah Republican Sen. Jake Anderegg told the AP he was interviewed by the FBI after introducing a 2020 resolution expressing solidarity with China in the early days of the coronavirus pandemic.

Wouldnt it be nice if the FBI interviewed members of Congress who had close ties to, supported or slept with PRCC agents?